655 replies to this topic

[Nik Van Rhijn]

@Virgil Caine - from your lips to PGI's ears.

[Dlardrageth]

Kristov Kerensky, on 04 January 2012 - 01:54 PM, said:

[...]
So..now we know..what's used in BTech is what PGI is doing for MWO..critical slots, tonnage, and all that entails. NO hardpoint systems, no bs made up LCD solutions to make it easy to use..ah..yes...so happy to learn that. And with the extra depth the modules will add, wow..really getting more excited then I was about MWO..wife is gonna HATE this game

Look at it this way, mate, potential new wives are out there in dozens... new BT/MW games though...

Seriously, though, back on topic, while the whole module thing gave us more of an idea what customization might look like, did it really show a concrete limit for it? It's not like we haven't got any viable numbers or even an example yet. Like - planned is on Mech type X to have space for 2 modules type A, 2 type B and type C or something. Or what do we expect it will turn out to be?

Edited by Dlardrageth, 05 January 2012 - 09:27 AM.

[Dihm]

MaddMaxx, on 04 January 2012 - 12:28 PM, said:

What "Time" were you speaking of then? The post I quoted used the word Time more than once, with specific time frames noted. How could one not infer you meant real time?????????

Repair and customization are entirely different things.

[MaddMaxx]

Dihm, on 05 January 2012 - 07:59 AM, said:

Repair and customization are entirely different things.

OK. So one can be done Instantly (with no time used) in TT while the other cannot? Quite a big disconnect there...

[Dihm]

No, in table top there are rules for everything. But I never once brought up repair, I was only talking about customization that everyone is clamoring for.

For gameplay purposes, adding on a repair time would probably be counter-productive to the user experience.

You can't bring over every rule from Battletech and expect it to work. HOWEVER, the rules for customization of mechs would work just fine, with tweaks to the timing.

Edited by Dihm, 05 January 2012 - 08:14 AM.

[MaddMaxx]

Dihm, on 05 January 2012 - 08:13 AM, said:

No, in table top there are rules for everything. But I never once brought up repair, I was only talking about customization that everyone is clamoring for.

For gameplay purposes, adding on a repair time would probably be counter-productive to the user experience.

You can't bring over every rule from Battletech and expect it to work. HOWEVER, the rules for customization of mechs would work just fine, with tweaks to the timing.

OK, no worries there. Just so were clear here.

So no Time based rules that did make sense in TT but might confuse players sensibilites, but other Time rules that apparently would not confuse players sensibilites, can be ported in. Is that about it?

I am not trying to be difficult I just don't see how changing out one Part(s) for another (customization) differs in time with replacing Part(s) that were removed simply by another means (damage repair)

If the thought is, players can deal with one (somehow logically) versus the other but they couldn't/don't want to deal with one simply due to gameplay requirements, that is fine. That is a Dev call.

That seperation has little to do with WHY one was dropped and the other kept (logically).

All speculation at this point as well.

Edited by MaddMaxx, 05 January 2012 - 08:58 AM.

[Dragon Lady]

I, for one, hope that it is possible to build a custom 'Mech. But I think it should take time and money to do so, as opposed to simply buying a stock 'Mech. The same goes with using kits to make a variant, or modifying an existing design, just not as much as making a custom 'Mech would.

I'd love to see this sort of scenario...

Kuritan Expatriot Mechwarrior Mariko "Dragon Lady" Anderson carefully backed her LCT-1V locust into its 'Mechbay on the Leopard Dropship /Headquarters of the Radstadt Ravegers. She popped the canopy, wincing at the five jagged holes that stitched their way up the left side of her Locust Speedy. 'There goes another 5000 c-bills to replace those armor panels.'

She carefully climbed into the waiting gantry, and unzipping her cooling vest as waited for the gantry to reach the deck. "Hi, Dana," she greeted her Tech with a weary smile. "You're looking far happier than you have any right to be. I almost died when that Shadow Hawk jumped onto that ridge. Thank God that Hendrickson and his Catapult were nearby."

"I've got good news, better news, and great news." Dana Takashi beamed as she took the bulky vest from her best friend. "And I think should save time and money by using armor patches this time."

"Oh? Well, don't keep me in suspense. I need some good news."

"First, we got the '-1E' refit kit in. It'll take about three hours, but Speedy won't have to worry about ammo anymore." She made a face at Mariko. "I still think it would've been better to replace both machine guns with mediums, but you insisted on saving money."

"We've been over this before, Dana. I'm not mounting any major weapons system on those arms, not without reinforcing the armor on them, and the only way to do that would be to strip it from somewhere else."

"I know, I know. The better news is that we finally got the endo-steel femurs from Defiance Industries. Once the custom shins from Corean
Enterprises arrive, the skeleton will be complete. Unfortunately, we'll have to wait before we can order the custom actuators."

"What? Why?"

"Because the great news is that because someone failed to meet their required deposit, Arc-Royal Mechworks is letting the next person on the list who can meet the 1.4 million c-bills minimum deposit to bump their up order. It'll deplete half of our bank account, but we can do it. In three months, we'll have a brand new Pitban 320 XL fusion engine, provided we can scrape up another 1.7 million to pay for the rest of it."

"I'll send the money at once. It'll be a close one, but I think we can do it. In three months, I'll be half way to my dream 'Mech."

"I still think it would've been faster and cheaper to find and then modify a Cicada 3F."

Mariko gave her friend a wry look. "But where's the fun in that?"

[William White]

I believe the basic standard chassis should be used but be able to adjust armour and weapons etc accordingly. This would also not be allowed from the start after all most people especially mercs would not have immediately have the ability to adjust their mechs as per theit desire it would require contact building and cash money..

[Kristov Kerensky]

Maxx..the difference in repair and customization time has to do with the F2P nature of the game AND the lack of anything to do ingame besides combat. Waiting on repairs between each drop would literally mean hours of time spent staring at the chat and nothing else. You don't just slap an armor patch over a hole in a Mech, you have to replace that particular section in TT, it takes time, 15 minutes per block of armor(that's point of armor..Assaults carry up to 54 points in the center torso alone..that's a LONG wait). So making players wait for the repair times, not really feasible.

Customization on the other hand..THAT you can make the player have to wait for. At least, I think you can and so do many others, but we really don't know what the vast majority would think of that. But for us, waiting days or weeks to customize a Mech, we're good with that, provided we've got another Mech to use during that time..big caveat there, got to have something to use while we're waiting! Again, without something to occupy the players ingame but combat, you can't expect them to sit around and do nothing for extended periods of time, they'll go play something else and never return to MWO.

[Dihm]

What Kristov said, except for the "days to weeks" part, I don't think that would fly. Gotta cut that down to "hours".

[Kristov Kerensky]

Dihm, on 05 January 2012 - 11:53 AM, said:

What Kristov said, except for the "days to weeks" part, I don't think that would fly. Gotta cut that down to "hours".

See? Even among those of us who want the time for customization to be used, we can't really agree on what's a good time frame

Me, I'm all for using the TT rules on that, but I do acknowledge that they wouldn't be good in an online game, especially a F2P game, but I also think they should take longer then a few hours..*shrug* not my call, thank the gods

[Dihm]

Oh trust me, I agree is should be days/weeks. But I don't think that will end up being practical/implemented.

Edited by Dihm, 05 January 2012 - 12:12 PM.

[Grithis]

The Frankenmech problem aside, let's look at realism, here. No common soldier has the money and influence to have a mech designed and scratch built in any factory in the 'Sphere. Very few mercenary commanders or generals of house armies would be able to swing this, either. House lords.... yeah, sure. I doubt, however, that's going to be an available rank in MWO. Scratch building should never, under any circumstances, be an option. Customization of existing chasis, with restrictions, is more than adequate.

[MaddMaxx]

Dihm, on 05 January 2012 - 12:12 PM, said:

Oh trust me, I agree is should be days/weeks. But I don't think that will end up being practical/implemented.

And the reason I could see that it might not be is what Kristov noted

Quote

"provided we've got another Mech to use during that time..big caveat there, got to have something to use while we're waiting!"

Hours might work but days/weeks? Not likely. I was thinking about having just bought a new Mech, but want to Customize it real good before feilding it. Waitng days or weeks would suck. A couple hours? I would be OK but many aren't as flexible surely.

But to my point back a post or 2. Waiting time is wasted time, what your waiting for notwithstanding. Once one aspect gets a break, the other get the shaft.

As in Buy -> Fight -> Repair -> Fight -> Repair -> Fight

vs

Buy -> Fight -> Repair -> Custom -> WAIT -> Fight -> Repair -> Custom -> WAIT -> Fight -> Repair -> Custom -> WAIT

[Dihm]

MaddMaxx, on 05 January 2012 - 12:38 PM, said:

As in Buy -> Fight -> Repair -> Fight -> Repair -> Fight

vs

Buy -> Fight -> Repair -> Custom -> WAIT -> Fight -> Repair -> Custom -> WAIT -> Fight -> Repair -> Custom -> WAIT

If people want to customize that much, they better be waiting for an Omnimech. That's what they're for. Well, for weapon/equipment loadouts anyway.

You shouldn't be changing your mech every single match. If you need to change that much, get more mechs that fill the roles you're looking for instead of trying to turn the chassis you have into something else.

[Nik Van Rhijn]

It's the previous MW games fault with their instant change mechlabs. It's seen as a total entitlement by many to "build" a new mech before every drop. As for Maxx's comparison - it only holds true if you only have one mech. To be honest whatever PGI do they will upset a number of people. For me insta mechs mean |I will only drop in every now and then - I'll still play, but not every minute I can spare.

[MaddMaxx]

Dihm, on 05 January 2012 - 12:40 PM, said:

If people want to customize that much, they better be waiting for an Omnimech. That's what they're for. Well, for weapon/equipment loadouts anyway.

You shouldn't be changing your mech every single match. If you need to change that much, get more mechs that fill the roles you're looking for instead of trying to turn the chassis you have into something else.

The Custom entries noted don't have to be every Match but the change could be as subtle as 1 Main weapon + Armor+ HS's but that player will be forced to "have to wait" or ride another Mech. It detracts from the Custom play style vs those who could care less.

I will be happy either way but it seems counter productive to allow one vs the other when it comes to how long it takes. Want to allow Customization but Kill it all in one fell swoop?

Add wait times.....

[Dihm]

MaddMaxx, on 05 January 2012 - 03:32 PM, said:

I will be happy either way but it seems counter productive to allow one vs the other when it comes to how long it takes. Want to allow Customization but Kill it all in one fell swoop?

Add wait times.....

Cool! I hope it works! It's SUPPOSED to be a pain! That way it fits canon.

[Alekto Serenis]

Btw, a scratchbuild can also mean a retrofit like in some customshop on solaris and alikes, sure there are also experimental mechs that some factorys like to throw their teams, but many one there got a custom designed ride to fit their own style, and a couple are mentioned as well in the books

Tho those that have it, are usually champions and got that money through many means

[Kristov Kerensky]

http://mwomercs.com/...ech-magic-maybe

That right there seems to say we'll be seeing full on customization by the TT rules, because the shop discussed..that's what they specialize in, and the fact that PGI made a point of bringing them up on the MercNet....