39 replies to this topic

[Jackal Noble]

Reading through a number of posts regarding the skill tree, and it seems like a number of players (not all) are displeased largely in part because they don't know what to do.
That and it seems that some fail to understand what the skill tree can actually mean for teams to set up for role play to an effect ie designate lights for for better info gathering etc. No, it's not pretty and no, it's not perfect but did I mention that my Ebon Jaguar is amazeballs?

Edited by JackalBeast, 17 May 2017 - 06:20 AM.

[Khobai]

the only reason a mech would ever put points in better info gathering is if its forced to in order to get better ecm.

a skill tree that walls good skills behind useless skills in order to force you to take the useless skills is not a well designed skill tree.

it would make far more sense just to give all lights better info gathering by default. then remove the useless info gathering nodes from the skill tree completely.

you boost the role of lights and eliminate useless skill nodes in the process.

Edited by Khobai, 17 May 2017 - 06:25 AM.

[mogs01gt]

The issue is having to pay(nodes) to play. You really dont have an idea on how the trees affect the mech until lots of testing is performed which isnt free.

[Positive Mental Attitude]

JackalBeast, on 17 May 2017 - 06:19 AM, said:

Reading through a number of posts regarding the skill tree, and it seems like a number of players (not all) are displeased largely in part because they don't know what to do.
That and it seems that some fail to understand what the skill tree can actually mean for teams to set up for role play to an effect ie designate lights for for better info gathering etc. No, it's not pretty and no, it's not perfect but did I mention that my Ebon Jaguar is amazeballs?

post your ebon, lets see amazballs

[Dee Eight]

It reminds me of watching President Trump throw one of his tantrums.

[Scyther]

Some people may not have noticed in the patch notes, base Target Info Gathering time has already been increased(nerfed) by 1, 1.5 or 2 seconds depending on the range. The Target Info Gathering nodes get some of that back for you.

Everyone may not find it useful, but personally either for myself or for the drop caller, all those 'Target Lima, Left leg is red' or 'RT is open' calls that use Target Info come in pretty handy.

[sycocys]

It won't accomplish anything for role warfare.

All the nodes are buff only (especially weapons) - so no drawback to make roles actually possible or different.

Edited by sycocys, 17 May 2017 - 06:31 AM.

[Jackal Noble]

sycocys, on 17 May 2017 - 06:30 AM, said:

It won't accomplish anything for role warfare.

All the nodes are buff only (especially weapons) - so no drawback to make roles actually possible or different.

I would assume it's entirely up to teams if they would want to operate in a more traditional manner with roles. That's what I was saying..

Edited by JackalBeast, 17 May 2017 - 06:33 AM.

[Khobai]

also lights that have to waste points in the sensor tree arnt putting them in weapons, survivability, or mobility where they need to be.

thats one of the big problems with the skill tree, that PGI expects lights to pay points for sensor abilities that most players think they should get for free. light mechs should be inherently better at scouting than any other weight class, they shouldnt have to pay skill points for that.

they should seriously just get rid of the sensor tree and roll all the sensor abilities onto lights for free. and then actually balance ECM properly instead of trying to balance it by forcing absurd skill point expenditures.

Quote

Some people may not have noticed in the patch notes, base Target Info Gathering time has already been increased(nerfed) by 1, 1.5 or 2 seconds depending on the range. The Target Info Gathering nodes get some of that back for you.

a BAP or Targeting Computer gets it back for you too. and doesnt cost absurd amounts of skill points.

Again the whole sensor tree should just get blown away. There is no reason to even put points in it unless you have ECM and thats a bad reason for having to put points in it. ECM shouldnt be balanced by forcing you to spend a bunch of skill points.

Edited by Khobai, 17 May 2017 - 06:43 AM.

[MrJeffers]

Khobai, on 17 May 2017 - 06:34 AM, said:

also lights that have to waste points in the sensor tree arnt putting them in weapons, survivability, or mobility where they need to be.

thats one of the big problems with the skill tree, that PGI expects lights to pay points for sensor abilities that most players think they should get for free. light mechs should be inherently better at scouting than any other weight class, they shouldnt have to pay skill points for that.

they should seriously just get rid of the sensor tree and roll all the sensor abilities onto lights for free. and then actually balance ECM properly instead of trying to balance it by forcing absurd skill point expenditures.

And that's not even mentioning that by putting all those points into sensors and forgoing other skills like weapons they are directly decreasing their match income becuase that is still all damage centric for match rewards. The scout role is the role of the pauper match rewards.

[Ced Riggs]

Khobai, on 17 May 2017 - 06:34 AM, said:

...

I, personally, would not mind if lighter mechs get inherent bonusses to sensor range/targetting speed.

[sycocys]

JackalBeast, on 17 May 2017 - 06:32 AM, said:

I would assume it's entirely up to teams if they would want to operate in a more traditional manner with roles. That's what I was saying..

Why would they all of a sudden start doing that? There's just no incentive or actual change to the system to even encourage anyone to do be anything but dps primary.

To get roles they needed to implement more of a zero-sum system.

[Dee Eight]

Ced Riggs, on 17 May 2017 - 06:40 AM, said:

I, personally, would not mind if lighter mechs get inherent bonusses to sensor range/targetting speed.

One of the Javelins does...+100 meter sensor range

[Y E O N N E]

JackalBeast, on 17 May 2017 - 06:19 AM, said:

but did I mention that my Ebon Jaguar is amazeballs?

I can't decide whether my slightly up-armored, extra ranged 6x cMPL EBJ with a TC7 is better than my Jester with 3x LPL + 3x ML and all the range/duration.

[MischiefSC]

A teammate of mine designed and I tweaked a 6xerll super nova. It's ******* god tier. I'm not sharing it because, well, it's amazing and in a selfish ********. Velocity tweaks impact missiles and a big impact on ACs. 10s and cuacs are significantly better and SRM velocity is very useful.

I'm finding a lot of value in the skill tree.

[Clownwarlord]

JackalBeast, on 17 May 2017 - 06:19 AM, said:

Reading through a number of posts regarding the skill tree, and it seems like a number of players (not all) are displeased largely in part because they don't know what to do.
That and it seems that some fail to understand what the skill tree can actually mean for teams to set up for role play to an effect ie designate lights for for better info gathering etc. No, it's not pretty and no, it's not perfect but did I mention that my Ebon Jaguar is amazeballs?

ROLES!?!?! YOU WANT TO TALK ROLES!?!?!

Well I have one for ya.

I just booted in this morning and built my kit fox with 3 ams ecm 3 medium pulses. The role is Iron Dome. So basically I went after all ECM skills, all AMS skills, and all range skills. Lastly I went after the consumable table and got 5 consumable slots open 2 UAV, 2 Air, and 1 Cool Shot.

I walk along side bigger mechs protecting them from light mechs that try and squirrel them and at the same time provide what anti-lrm protection that I can. Also due to ECM and UAVs I can get close to enemy pop UAV and help spot the enemy.

[Clownwarlord]

https://steamuserima...82B3A9136F742F/

A 400 Match score with barely trying. Just doing the little things.

[Khobai]

but even a kitfox wouldnt put a single point in the sensor tree if ECM didnt force it too

[Tralik]

JackalBeast, on 17 May 2017 - 06:19 AM, said:

Reading through a number of posts regarding the skill tree, and it seems like a number of players (not all) are displeased largely in part because they don't know what to do.
That and it seems that some fail to understand what the skill tree can actually mean for teams to set up for role play to an effect ie designate lights for for better info gathering etc. No, it's not pretty and no, it's not perfect but did I mention that my Ebon Jaguar is amazeballs?

The problem here is that there is no incentive for the light pilot to play scout/info gathering roles. The driving force behind MWO gameplay has always been damage. Unless and until scouting, capping, spotting, tagging, narcing, etc.. are scored in an equivalent manner to damage, kills, kmdd's and assists, then players will naturally continue to spec towards damage-centric roles which provide the most XP and C-Bills. The only alternative I see is if scoring was based on TEAM performance and divided equally among teammates so the spotter who tagged for a LRM boat that does 1300 damage sees an equivalent payout. Until then, the concept of info-warfare as perceived by PGI is inherently flawed and doomed to fail.

[Khobai]

yep the scout/info gathering role needs to be given to light mechs for free

they shouldnt have to spend skill points on it. they need all the skill points just to be minimally viable at combat as is.