7 replies to this topic

[FlynnTheAvatar]

We just tested the ECM changes a bit more; the skill points not only affect the distance until you can lock on to an ECM mech, but also the time it takes before you can fire LRMs.

For an enemy LRM boat there is almost no difference in lock time for a normal mech and unskilled ECM mech. I did not stop the time, but I guess it takes 1.5s for a non-ECM mech and 2s for an unskilled ECM mech.

If you unlock both ECM skill nodes, it takes the normal 4.5 seconds.

So, keep in mind: ECM is worthless without skills.

[Psycho Cop]

Yeah, this is kind of frustrating.

From an economic point of view you use up slots and weight for an ECM, however it does not function properly.
You have to spend skill points to get it working as intended.
This means you could have saved your weight, and slots, and skill points for other opportunities.

And usually the ECM capable mechs have a lower engine cap.
So that means more risk to run from cover to cover.
Why would anyone take ECM mechs anymore with inferior hardpoints?

So little incentive to do so.
This hurts me a lot as a light pilot trying to do my best not to die from streaks and lurms.

Edited by Psycho Cop, 17 May 2017 - 10:37 AM.

[DaveRatters]

well researched - didn't realise the ECM "skill" did this - didn't even realise it was needed to run ECM - which explains while when I played my ARC 5W (4LRM5 4SRM6) I could lock ECM equipped mechs even over the horizon - probably because they hadn't used skill points on ECM nodes.

In all a totally useless, retrograde step - please please revert

[Nicodemus Rosse]

IMO, if you're carrying ECM it's probably worth it to drop the 13 SP on your electronics suite anyway, to get 35% sensor range, 40% radar dep, and 21% target info (for picking weak components). All of those should come in handy for snipers, spotters, and bombers.

The Sensor tree would hurt less if it weren't so many SP to get Speed Tweak back, that takes a bare minimum 23 SP, which will net you 3.5% more yaw speed, 4% yaw angle, 10% pitch angle, 10.5% acceleration, 14% decel, 15% turn, and 7.5% top speed boosts.

I suspect part of the rationale for nerfing the ECM this way is that it makes IS Stealth armor a lot more attractive, and pushes ECM into a more specialized sniper/scout equipment role as opposed to being stealth technology (which it isn't supposed to be, afaik).

[Insanity09]

Wow. Thanks Flynn and co. for testing that out. Good to know.

I hope it is a bug, rather than a senseless ECM nerf.

Edit: And now I'm very worried about radar deprivation. On a mech with all 5 node (100%) I was getting targeted with missiles after I had moved out of line of sight, suggesting that +100% is not actually 100%. Does it still work the old way, where bonus target decay (from the old module) basically nullified radar dep, restoring it to the default 2s? In which case, it isn't really working by percentages, as the nodes would imply, now is it?

(Got targeted, had missiles fired at me, moved into cover, no enemies in LOS, missile warning went away (heard missiles striking cover), then got more missile warnings, still no enemy in LOS. Hmm.)

Edited by Insanity09, 17 May 2017 - 01:47 PM.

[Dee Eight]

This isn't a bug. I could lock ecm mechs BEFORE the patch. ECM doesn't make you 100% invisible to locks, it just delays it and shortens the effective radar range for making contact of the enemy. Standard radar detection range is 800 meters. ECM before the skill tree, or with both the nodes now, shrinks that range by 75%, to 200 meters. Unskilled under the new tree it shrinks by 30% to 560 meters. It still has its 90 meter bubble for shielding other mechs regardless of whether its skilled or not.

If your play style is to use your ECM to shield yourself from radar contact for long range sniping (such as firing a ER PPC at 800 meters), then you don't need the ECM skills.

[Insanity09]

Afaik, there are three things ECM does (or did) for you.
If you had ECM cover....

• Target range, the distance somebody could see your dorito and hit 'r' to target you was cut by 600m (down to 200m from 800m)
  
• The amount of time required to get a missile lock on you was doubled (from 2s to 4s, I believe, but not sure on that)
  
• enemies within your ecm bubble could not share target information with their allies.

Certain things (narc, artemis, tag, bap/cap) will lower the lock on time by a certain percent.



What I understood the OP to be talking about being broken was the second benefit. Unless I'm mistaken, the testing showed that an ECM'd mech took no longer to lock that a normal mech (2s?).
So that's one benefit of ECM gone, unless you had also taken the ECM skill nodes, in which case the lock on time was actually debuffed to 4.5s (worse than it was previously). (That suggests perhaps a 1.125s lock-on debuff per node?)

The size of the bubble being different, yes, that's also adjusted (smaller benefit than it used to be), and impacted by the nodes. I recall that being mentioned in somewhere (perhaps PTS notes?). Iirc, the intent was that the bubble was not as effective with no skill nodes (detect at 240m instead of the old 200m), about the same as it used to be with one skill node (with 22.5% extra that would be detect @~195m?), and improved with 2 nodes (detect @~165m?).

Nothing I recall ever talked about the lock-on time debuff being cut out in the new system (without the nodes), but I may be forgetting.

[David Sumner]

And at 165 it would basically mean LRMS against ECM lights go from "I night hit it once before I die" to "completely worthless"