71 replies to this topic

[Legato Bluesummers]

First off I really like the Skill tree because I was able to make my brawl mechs get the mobility they needed to shield myself with my arms. But with this new update they have destroyed ECM completely.

Before the patch ECM was at 75% range of the enemy mech detection range, now it is 30%. you can bring it back to 75% but you have to spend 13 of your SP just to get it back the way it was.

I thought the Skill Tree was supposed to buff up certain aspects of the mech if we choose so. This makes ECM useless unless you wasted 13 SP to just get it to do it's job again. This is wrong when you have no choice in the matter, so I'm just going to take ECM off all my mechs until this is fixed. It's easy enough to counter ECM with Tag, Narc and UAVs anyways.

Edited by Legato Bluesummers, 17 May 2017 - 10:22 PM.

[QuePan]

i have to agree , your already paying in the cost of tonnage for the ECM to make it Viable only thru the tree is a waste of that tonnage , the costs and the benefits need to be worth it overall , i love how other stats for other items stay the same while the tree enhances that a little here and there , but other things get completely nerfed to the ground unless you use skill tree specing , the tree is supposed add a little more to the mech . not be MUST SKILL TO USE THIS GEAR . the ecm tree should just add a little boost to the standerd base Stats we had before the tree . these changes aren't uniform , a non spect SRM still goes 270 and does its base damage it had before , then every system should be the same . plain and simple

Edited by QuePan, 17 May 2017 - 01:51 PM.

[Legato Bluesummers]

QuePan, on 17 May 2017 - 01:49 PM, said:

Not be MUST SKILL TO USE THIS GEAR . the ecm tree should just add a little boost to the standerd base Stats we had before the tree . these changes aren't uniform , a non spect SRM still goes 270 and does its base damage it had before , then every system should be the same . plain and simple

Games are about choice, but with this new ECM you have no choice but to waste 13 SP just to make it viable. 13 SP is asking too much, if it was 4 SP I would probably not care but this is highway robbery. Also if your going to do this to one system like ECM you should do it to all, lasers, LRMs U-AC excetera. But that would never happen because everyone would be pissed off if their ER large laser only went to 300m and you had to spend SP just to get it back to where it was.

Edited by Legato Bluesummers, 18 May 2017 - 01:02 AM.

[Trev Firestorm]

Legato Bluesummers, on 17 May 2017 - 01:38 PM, said:

First off I really like the Skill tree because I was able to make my brawl mechs get the mobility they needed to shield myself with my arms. But with this new update they have destroyed ECM completely.

Before the patch ECM was at 75% range of the enemy mech detection range, now it is 30%. you can bring it back to 75% but you have to spend 13 of your SP just to get it back the way it was.

I thought the Skill Tree was supposed to buff up certain aspects of the mech if we choose so. This makes ECM useless unless you wasted 13 SP to just get it to do it's job again. This is wrong, I'm just going to take ECM off all my mechs until this is fixed.

ECM was too strong before thus the nerf.

[Exilyth]

Tag, narc, beagle probe, getting close, (ER-)PPC hits.

There are many counters for ECM.

Edit: Also multiple UAV now w/aux skill tree.

Edited by Exilyth, 18 May 2017 - 11:26 AM.

[Artillery Witch Viridia]

Sorry your 1 ton device wasn't able to render entire enemy mech loadouts as useless as before. Many mechs do have to invest heavily to get the utility they did before. ECM mechs don't even need to grab radar dep. Narc is also only useful on an enemy team when they dont have non-narced ecm mechs nearby. "Getting Close" yeah brawling with lrms. Yawn. Theres a reason LRMs aren't meta. Sometimes it takes years to even target a ecm mechs with tag in the open then your lock instantly dissapears when they move out of LOS. It wouldn't be nice if LRM mechs weren't situationally rendered useless. I can easily do more dmg in most meta designs but if I want to chill and bring an lrm mech ECM usually gives the other team god mode and I'm left as useless tonnage. I'll say it again your Low tonnage devise should not render builds useless within their optimal range. LRMs are not brawling weapons. it honestly should slow locks and not outright block it. ECM as equipment does way more than what it's worth in tonnage. I have over 600 avg dmg per match win or lose in a WHK-C I bought yesterday. I wish I could achieve those results with lrms.

Edited by Azoic23, 17 May 2017 - 05:24 PM.

[Legato Bluesummers]

Azoic23, on 17 May 2017 - 05:24 PM, said:

I have over 600 avg dmg per match win or lose in a WHK-C I bought yesterday. I wish I could achieve those results with lrms.

I just did over 1000 dm with my LRM/Narc WHK-B today, it's my favorite mech to solo queue with because LRMs are easy if you know what you are doing. I have over 2 days and 20 hours using clan narc alone and adding all my LRM time I have used LRMs for 64 hours.

I've played all the styles in this game and I have funded it before this was in beta so I've seen it all and I normally don't care what PGI has done to MWO over the years with all the nerfs and buff but every now and then PGI goes too far. Like when the Blackjack had the strength of a 70 ton mech when it was a 45.... They like to break the game for crybaby's that can't even play the game.

Edited by Legato Bluesummers, 17 May 2017 - 09:51 PM.

[DexiledWarrior]

Azoic23, on 17 May 2017 - 05:24 PM, said:

Sorry your 1 ton device wasn't able to render entire enemy mech loadouts as useless as before. Many mechs do have to invest heavily to get the utility they did before. ECM mechs don't even need to grab radar dep. Narc is also only useful on an enemy team when they dont have non-narced ecm mechs nearby. "Getting Close" yeah brawling with lrms. Yawn. Theres a reason LRMs aren't meta. Sometimes it takes years to even target a ecm mechs with tag in the open then your lock instantly dissapears when they move out of LOS. It wouldn't be nice if LRM mechs weren't situationally rendered useless. I can easily do more dmg in most meta designs but if I want to chill and bring an lrm mech ECM usually gives the other team god mode and I'm left as useless tonnage. I'll say it again your Low tonnage devise should not render builds useless within their optimal range. LRMs are not brawling weapons. it honestly should slow locks and not outright block it. ECM as equipment does way more than what it's worth in tonnage. I have over 600 avg dmg per match win or lose in a WHK-C I bought yesterday. I wish I could achieve those results with lrms.

I do 350-500 dmg with my 5 tons of ammo on the javelin.... i dont see any problems.... maybe stop staying at 800meters+ range

Edited by DexiledWarrior, 17 May 2017 - 10:13 PM.

[Chaosity]

Bottom line... ECM is a tech device and has NOTHING to do with skill, along with a number of other "let's screw the user over" changes. My favorite SIG for MWO that I have come across (intelligent user, unlike the PGI game designers):

"I have determined that both ELO and PSR are myths, weight class matching a fantasy, hit registration a dream,and unbalanced teams a goal. The Matchmaker algorithm is entirely a function of pure spite and malice. And if something actually works they will fix it until they break it."

Edited by Chaosity, 17 May 2017 - 10:39 PM.

[Hoshi Toranaga]

Honestly I love the ECM change and I drive ECM mechs mostly (Arctic and Hellbringer).

ECM was way OP before and Clans having much better ECM mechs than IS this shifted balance.
I mean a good player in an ACH was an "I win" button for most matches if you picked your targets right.
Now I need to make sacrifices, well not so much actually as those points are well invested. Added Sensors and Radar Dep are a good thing if you need to pick your targets and approach vectors as well as Seismic is a no-brainer for any light.

Now if you want the cake, you need to earn it and you cannot make the invisible machine gun from hell.
I like it and it is well balanced with the other improvements.

[David Sumner]

1. Yes ECM was OP. Especially with the D^^M TAG bug (2 ECM vs 1 TAG = no TAG WTF!?!) TAG should be like a UAV acting on a single mech (no weapon/armour data, just the ability to lock)
2. ECM is basically NOTHING now, and I say that as a majority LRM user.

I'd say buff the base amount and 1/2 the skill tree effect to get to about 80-90% of pre skill tree at max.

[Legato Bluesummers]

Hoshi Toranaga, on 17 May 2017 - 11:04 PM, said:

ECM was way OP before and Clans having much better ECM mechs than IS this shifted balance.

Do you not remember when ECM had a 180m for their team? That was the only time ECM was (OP) because it felt like the whole team had ECM. After the 90m change and the nerf to the detection range of ECM it was so much easier to deal with. Besides is it that hard to use at least one of the 3 counters just for one system in the game?

Edited by Legato Bluesummers, 17 May 2017 - 11:43 PM.

[Hoshi Toranaga]

Legato Bluesummers, on 17 May 2017 - 11:33 PM, said:

Do you not remember when ECM had a 180m for their team? That was the only time ECM was (OP) because it felt like the whole team had ECM. After the 90m change and the nerf to the detection range of ECM it was so much easier to deal with. Besides is it that hard to use at least one of the 3 counters just for one system in the game?

You are right of course that at that time it was totally out of hand.
Now I do think to get some cake now you need to put in some skills. ECM is still working at the full potential when you put the points in, it just gradually and you can no longer build the invisible machine gun from hell that easy.
I still love ECM and my Hellbringer skilling is quite good. I have about the same surviveability and damage as before, so I think that all went OKish.

[Willard Phule]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA! You're trolling, right?

I mean, ECM is no longer the "magic Jesus box" and you actually have to know how to use it to make it work.

Perhaps they should add points in the skill tree for people that can't move and shoot at the same time...you know, like putting points into "turret" or something....

[Drunkenseagull]

This is true ECM is literally useless now unless you put the full 13 skill points into it. I remember the first post patch match I played seeing enemy cheetahs getting locked up at 600m and annihilated by lrms, laughing at them for not loading their ECM, then having a wow that's stupid moment when I realised they did have ECM. What makes this even worse is the fact that many people take, or are forced to take sensor range and degradation nodes, so you get locked up more than before regardless.

Like the guys above said; none of the other equipment got castrated and requires SP just to make it not completely useless, why did ECM. Although that's not even true, because JJ did, if you don't skill JJ it's significantly worse than before. Those pro ML + LPL spammers though, they get the same baseline plus other bonuses with enough SP left over to tank up their armour. Only people this skill tree seems to benefit are laser vom and lrm baddies.

[Thalos]

I'm also finding radar derp pretty much useless. I have 3 nodes of radar derp of the 5 nodes = 60% reduction in time lock on after breaking detection and its as if I don't have anything. I clocked to about 5-6 seconds sometimes I'm still having missiles coming for me. In a med or light mech that can make the diff between some beat up armor and a broken leg or side ripped off. Sorry but I spent 10 pts to get that 60% and well all I can say they better go back to the drawing board cause its not working very well.

[Blackhound]

@Thalos I thought the same thing with 100% Radar Dep... And then I looked up and saw the UAV. Keep in mind UAV got a major buff.

[Hoshi Toranaga]

Thalos, on 18 May 2017 - 05:17 PM, said:

I'm also finding radar derp pretty much useless. I have 3 nodes of radar derp of the 5 nodes = 60% reduction in time lock on after breaking detection and its as if I don't have anything. I clocked to about 5-6 seconds sometimes I'm still having missiles coming for me. In a med or light mech that can make the diff between some beat up armor and a broken leg or side ripped off. Sorry but I spent 10 pts to get that 60% and well all I can say they better go back to the drawing board cause its not working very well.

Well then you prolly took that skillpoints into something else... cannot have it all, should have skilled 100% radar dep...

Also JJs are not worse, they are bloody amazing. My ACH now can fly like superman. Hell I can jump around in Canyon it is not even funny. Launch UAV -> see enemy in next trench. Jump over confused enemy (have skilled ECM) -> land in his back -> BOOM Chackalacka.

[justcallme A S H]

ECM was not "overpowered" before. What a load of rubbish. If you could not "see" a ECM covered mech and shoot at it - you were a LRM boat. Any other direct fire weapon could still hit the mech.

If you know the mech, you know where to shoot to take out the ECM on top of that.

The Skill Tree for ECM etc is stupid. Forcing you to take out Radar Derp with ECM, I mean, wtf is the point? You do not need Rad Derps if you have ECM...

But then that is the story of the skill tree - forcing you to spend 10-20 skill points on stuff you just don't want/need.

So much for PGI's statement of "customising a mech how you want" if you have to select a bunch of crap, you do not want.

[DexiledWarrior]

Chaosity, on 17 May 2017 - 10:38 PM, said:

Bottom line... ECM is a tech device and has NOTHING to do with skill, along with a number of other "let's screw the user over" changes. My favorite SIG for MWO that I have come across (intelligent user, unlike the PGI game designers):

"I have determined that both ELO and PSR are myths, weight class matching a fantasy, hit registration a dream,and unbalanced teams a goal. The Matchmaker algorithm is entirely a function of pure spite and malice. And if something actually works they will fix it until they break it."

The device is still there u just skill to use its full potential that is all... take it as everyone has a pc but not everyone has the skill to overclock it.