9 replies to this topic

[Weeny Machine]

Something to laugh regarding the agility boni:

Wolfhound, 35t

ACC 54

Dec 76

Turn Rate 82

Torso Turn 248


Linebacker, 65t

Acc 49,9

Dec 40

Turn Rate 80

Torso Turn 130


I know, PGI loves to show light mechs the middle finger but that has a whole new quality.

While I find it commendable that a mech within a weight class differs from the norm to have a greater variety, I wonder who thought this kind of overkill fair. A heavy mech that has similar stats to a mech which is 30t lighter (excpt torso turn) and belongs 2 weight classes lower is simply wrong. If this thing would have stats of a medium...ok...but a light mech?

Which in turn says also a lot about the baseline values and agility the regular light has to work with.

Edited by Bush Hopper, 21 May 2017 - 05:39 AM.

[Juodas Varnas]

Don't compare it to the Wolfhound, compare the Linebacker to the Panther, Firestarter and Raven.
Linebacker is literally more agile than those 3 light mechs

The whole engine decoupling thing reads like a really bad joke.
The funniest thing about it being, that it seems to be such an easy thing to do, but PGI still managed to flunk it so hard.

Edited by Juodas Varnas, 21 May 2017 - 06:03 AM.

[Wattila]

Hush guys, PGI forgot to nerf Wolfhound, the last decent IS light, to the ground, so let's not give them any ideas. It might be the size and speed of a medium, but at least it has medium armor.

[StealthdragonB]

I think the main thing they changed for the linebacker, which we can see here, is the torso turn rate, a difference of 118 seems like a lot, everything else seems less affected, I'm not sure what they were specifically trying to address with 'mobility'.

[Appogee]

You are highlighting the Linebacker's advantage without mentioning its corresponding disadvantage...

The design idea with the Linebacker was that its incredible speed and agility would be offset by it having only a tiny, limited loadout relative to its tonnage.

Linebacker is different. This is good. It's not remarkably better all round. It has a significant advantage offset by a significant disadvantage.

Edited by Appogee, 21 May 2017 - 07:26 AM.

[Bud Crue]

I hate defending PGI but...

Consider that the Linebacker and the 35ton IS lights can carry comparable weapons with those ~ similar movement profiles. It seems stupid, and maybe it is, but I can at least see where they are coming from here. A 65ton mech that carries 2PPCs or 6ERML vs a variety of 35 Ton mechs that can carry about the same, but are faster and are harder to hit...I get it.

Of course I would get it more of the Firestarter and the Raven had some bonus armor too (like the Wolfhound and Panther). Just sayin.

[Kanil]

Appogee, on 21 May 2017 - 07:17 AM, said:

You have chosen to highlight the Linebacker's advantage without mentioning its corresponding disadvantage.

The design idea with the Linebacker was that its incredible speed and agility would be offset by it having on a tiny and limited loadout for its tonnage.

It's not that overengined though, the optimum 6/9 is a 60 tonner. This is just 5 tons off optimum. It ends up with 2 less tons to play with.

Edit: i mean, the friggin' thing gives up one ton on the Stormcrow (two if you fully armor them both, which you probably will) in exchange for 50% more acceleration...

Edited by Kanil, 21 May 2017 - 07:59 AM.

[Pixel Hunter]

Bud Crue, on 21 May 2017 - 07:24 AM, said:

I hate defending PGI but...

Consider that the Linebacker and the 35ton IS lights can carry comparable weapons with those ~ similar movement profiles. It seems stupid, and maybe it is, but I can at least see where they are coming from here. A 65ton mech that carries 2PPCs or 6ERML vs a variety of 35 Ton mechs that can carry about the same, but are faster and are harder to hit...I get it.

Of course I would get it more of the Firestarter and the Raven had some bonus armor too (like the Wolfhound and Panther). Just sayin.

you can only put 3 LPL lasers on a tdr-se and still have a competitive engine choice. (also while running weight upgrades) so does that mean my thunderbolt should almost be as agile as the linebacker with the new skill drop?

seriously, some of the newer clam mechs are the worst of the worst when it comes to balance. PGI tends t rationalize things when they make mechs broken

Edited by Gimpy117, 21 May 2017 - 07:44 AM.

[Bud Crue]

Gimpy117, on 21 May 2017 - 07:43 AM, said:

you can only put 3 LPL lasers on a tdr-se and still have a competitive engine choice. (also while running weight upgrades) so does that mean my thunderbolt should almost be as agile as the linebacker with the new skill drop?

seriously, some of the newer clam mechs are the worst of the worst when it comes to balance. PGI tends t rationalize things when they make mechs broken

I hear ya.
I'm just saying, if you consider the way PGI historically approaches these things (balance by as broad a brush as possible or if you prefer with as big a hammer as possible) it makes a certain kind of sense. It is absurd to us as players (a 35 ton mech is not a 65 ton mech...right?) but to PGI who despite abandoning the 4 pillars still believes and occasionally pretends and asserts that in their competitive e-sport all mechs are supposed to be equal (PGI: a 35 ton light with extra armor ~ = to a 65 ton Clan heavy that carries similar FP). It really is the only explanation.

Edited by Bud Crue, 21 May 2017 - 08:04 AM.

[Weeny Machine]

Bud Crue, on 21 May 2017 - 08:04 AM, said:

I hear ya.
I'm just saying, if you consider the way PGI historically approaches these things (balance by as broad a brush as possible or if you prefer with as big a hammer as possible) it makes a certain kind of sense. It is absurd to us as players (a 35 ton mech is not a 65 ton mech...right?) but to PGI who despite abandoning the 4 pillars still believes and occasionally pretends and asserts that in their competitive e-sport all mechs are supposed to be equal (PGI: a 35 ton light with extra armor ~ = to a 65 ton Clan heavy that carries similar FP). It really is the only explanation.

It is absurd and I will tell you why: on the one hand you cannot re-size everything and give volumetric scaling as reason (and hit lights in the crotch with a baseball bat). On the other hand you give a 65t mech nearly the stats of a light