39 replies to this topic

[cazidin]

Greetings MechWarriors. Today I have a simple guide!

1.Firepower Branch
1A.Range
1B.Cooldown
1C.Heat Gen
1D.Velocity
1E.Laser Duration
1F.LBX Spread
1G.Gauss Charge
1H.UAC Jam Chance
1I.Missile Spread
1J.High Explosives
1K.Magazine Capacity and Missile Rack

2.Survival Branch
2A.Reinforced Casing
2B.AMS Overload
2C.Shock Absorbance
2D.Armor Hardening and Skeletal Density

3.Agility Branch
3A.Kinetic Burst and Hand Brake
3B.Torso Yaw
3C.Torso Pitch
3D.Torso Speed
3E.Anchor Turn
3F.Speed Tweak

4.Jump Jets Branch
4A.Heat Shielding
4B.Vectoring
4C.Vent Calibration
4D.Lift Speed

5.Operations Branch
5A.Quick Ignition
5B.Speed Retention
5C.Improved (tastier) Gyros
5D.Hill Climb
5E.Heat Containment
5F.Cool Run

6.Sensors Branch
6A.Target Info Gathering
6B.Sensor Range
6C.Target Decay
6D.Target Retention
6E.Enhanced ECM
6F.Radar Deprivation
6G.Seismic Sensor

Firepower Branch.

Spoiler

This branch of the skill tree is by far the largest at 68 nodes total, not that you'd ever use ALL of them but still. We're going to start with this one but before we begin let me first say that I am going to priotize certain nodes over others and give some weight to them.

We want to, whenever possible, avoid "junk" nodes even if that means we sacrifice a "Good" node. I will try to only select a "junk" node if it unlocks two or more "good" nodes or at least one "OP" node. I will also take the extra step and explain why certain nodes are labelled as "junk", "good" or "OP".

This guide is written primarily for new players who might otherwise have no idea, but I hope that some Veterans can appreciate the amount of detail I've put in and feedback is certainly appreciated in return.

Furthermore. Do not invest here unless you know that the build works for you or you have a lot of GXP to burn through, somehow, as a new player. Otherwise you risk wasting XP on skill nodes that you may not use.

Try the loadout out first in a few quick play matches. See how it performs. See what that mech and build need THEN invest your points, and that goes for all branches of the skill tree. Learn the strengths and weaknesses of both and plan accordingly.

Range.
This skill, clearly, increases the optimal and maximum ranges of your weapons by 1% per node. While this, like most other nodes, is a small, incremental increase they add up.

IS mechs benefit more from this because their weapons almost always have shorter ranges than their Clan counterparts. This will change in part with the new tech from the Civil War update but we're not there for another 2 months. Also, because this is percentaged based, Clans do technically get a few extra meters from this and another 4+% from Targeting Computers. You will have to take a few range nodes to get to the good stuff!

Rating!
4.5 Stars for IS.
4 Stars for Clan.

Cooldown.
This skill increases the recycle rate of all weapons, meaning that you can fire them more frequently boosting your DPS. While these may seem better for DPS oriented builds like Laser Vomit or Dakka*, you will need to invest more heavily to see any noticeable difference with the latter or any weapon system with a fast recycle rate. Also, because your weapons cycle faster, you will generate heat more quickly and that's something to keep in mind with Clan Laser Vomit, which is hotter than IS Laser Vomit.

Laser Vomit refers to a mech with an abundance of energy hardpoints, usually more than 5, and which uses them. Typically a mix of Large and Medium Lasers, but on some mechs,
like the Nova or Stormcrow, it can be 8-12 Small Lasers too.

Dakka refers to a mech with 3 or more Autocannons. "Dakka" is the sound the shells make as they are ejects from the chamber towards the poor, unfortunate target. In pain, in need of cover.

Sad!

Rating!
4 Stars.

Heat Gen.
This reduces the amount of heat generated from weapons and is arguably more powerful than Cool Run from the Operations branch, which we'll be getting to later in the guide! The more heat you generate, the more powerful this skill becomes making it vital for Laser Vomit or Heavy Missile builds. Dakka builds can still benefit from this but only with 4+ UAC/5s or UAC/2s which will generate a lot of heat quickly if you're in a brawl. Again, this works as a percentage so you'll need to invest heavily to get a noticeable benefit, especially over Cool Run.

Rating!
5 Stars. Strongly Recommended!

Velocity.
This, clearly, increases projectile velocity for PPCs, Autocannons and Missiles. PPCs, Autocannons and yes, even LRMs see the most benefit from this because their projectiles
travel fast enough to get a noticeable boost, but still need one (PPCs and AC/10 and AC/5) or will require a heavy investment but will still see a noticeable boost (AC/20 and LRMs).

Clan Mechs have access to Targeting Computers which further increase the velocity of PPC and Autocannon projectiles, but not Missiles, at the cost of another 2-7 tons and 2-7 crit slots. SRMs travel quickly and don't really need another 10% velocity, but it doesn't hurt them either.

Rating!
4 Stars for IS.
3 Stars for Clans.

Now that we've covered the general Firepower skills which affect all weapons, let's look at some of the more focused skill nodes starting with Laser Duration!

Laser Duration!
This, clearly, reduces the duration of your lasers making them more precise. Every laser, from either faction, benefits from this skill and it's one of the few with different values for Clan and IS (2% and 3.75% per node, respectively). If your primary armament is lasers then this is strongly recommended as a must have skill! You'll need less time to focus on your target, allowing you to twist and retreat to cover sooner, while also focusing more of that damage onto one or two locations making it harder for your target to twist the damage away.

Rating!
5 stars. Strongly recommended!

LBX Spread (reduction).

Get this if you're using LBX-autocannons. They're shotguns.

5 stars. Strongly recommended!

Gauss Charge.
This increases the length of time, by half a second each node up to a full extra second, that your Gauss shot can remain charged. What this means is, after about .75 to 1 second without this skill your gauss round will "de-magnetize" and you'll have to spend another .75 seconds to charge another shot. A single point investment might make a significant difference but I hardly noticed a difference beyond that.

3 stars.

UAC Jam Chance.
This skill is rather deceptive. All UACs have a 17% chance to jam on the second shot. This skill decreases that chance by up to 5%... of 17% Meaning, less than 1% difference even with mechs that have UAC jam chance quirks, this is rather pitiful and I hope it was simply buggy implementation and not a feature.

1 star. Don't waste your points!

Missile Spread.
This skill, like LBX spread, tightens the cluster of missiles by 2.5% each node up to 5% total. This is a nice buff to stack atop of, or without Artemis, but 5% is still small and might be barely noticeable except on the large launchers. (SRM 6 or LRM 10+)

3.5 stars.

High Explosives.
This skill increases the crit chance of missiles after your target's armor has been vaporized. Don't rely on crits with missiles. You'll literally blast through whatever structure remains. Still, if you're carrying LBX, which have a built in crit modifier, then this may compound that to devestating effect.

2 stars.

Magazine Capacity and Missile Rack.

This skill basically gives free ammo.

5 stars. Strongly recommended!

Survival Branch.

Spoiler

This branch of the skill tree is quantative. If your mech already had armor or structure quirks then you can amplify them further with only a moderate investment, but if not, then i'd only recommend that you invest in the left side for Armor. Structure is benefital and it DOES add HP but even with the crit chance reduction that still won't last as long as armor under focused fire.

If your mech doesn't already have durability quirks, or you simply feel the extra 30-40 HP isn't worth it? Feel free to skip this branch entirely and to the next section. If it does, or you do? Read on! Furthermore, try to avoid the far sides of this tree and stick to the center. You really don't need the 2% crit reduction or 20% more shock absorbance, even for the extra HP.

Reinforced Casing.

This skill reduces the chance of you being critically struck (and blown up) after your armor has been vaporized. Unlike the UAC jam chance lie this actually DOES work as you would think. Still, the change is small but noticeable for some.

3.5 stars.

AMS overload.

Even if you're using AMS the difference is small.

1 star. Don't waste your points!

Shock Absorbance.

This skill reduces the amount of damage you take from falling. Stop jumping over cliffs or using ACME products and you should be fine. Unfortunately, good nodes are locked behind either this or AMS overload. I'd rather take this.

1 star. Don't waste your points! (But you have to. I'm sorry.)

Armor Hardening and Skeletal Density.

These skills increase your Armor and Structure, respectively. I prefer having more armor if I invest in this tree, but you could always take both and become ultra-tanky!

3.5 stars. (Armor Hardening)
3 stars. (Skeletal Density)

Agility Branch.

Spoiler

This is the ONLY branch of the skill tree that I strongly recommend you ALWAYS invest in, except for the quickest and most agile or slowest and most slug-like of mechs which simply won't see noticeable benefits from this tree due to the percentages.

Please examine this section of the guide carefully to determine which nodes to invest in to suit your playstyle and get the most benefit from them.

Kinetic Burst and Hand Brake.

These skills increase the acceleration and deceleration of your mech, respectively. Very good for peekers, who will duck out of cover for only a moment to launch a quick and decisive strike against their target before fading back in, like the Shadow™!

Assaults benefit less from this because of their incredibly low rate of acceleration/deceleration unfortunately but with heavy investment you will see a very noticeable difference in them especially.

4 stars.

Torso Yaw.

This skill increases the range that your mech can turn left/right, which can allow for a greater range when torso twisting, following Lights, or even let you use those bulky gorilla arms to shield!

Brawlers of all sizes can benefit from this tree to spread damage with maximum efficiency but peekers don't really need this. Also, if your mech already has a wide range then you probably won't see much of a difference. Urbanmechs can somehow perform up to a 372 degree turn with this. They're freaking magic.

4.5 stars. Strongly recommended!

Torso Pitch.

This skill increases the range that your mech can look up/down. Maybe your Hunchback IIC will like this?

1 star. Don't waste your points! (But you have to. I'm sorry.)

Torso Speed.

This skill increases the speed that you can torso twist, allowing you to spread damage more effectively against laser vomit. This and Torso Yaw are strongly recommended for brawlers but peekers don't need this either. Like Torso Yaw, if your mech can already turn quickly then this skill become less important.

Also not particularly effective against PPFLD, unless you can twist faster than the projectile travels and block with your arms then it IS particularly effective against PPFLD. Try that on an Urbanmech. They're freaking magic.

4 stars.

Anchor Turn.

This skill increases the speed that your mech ACTUALLY turns around. Neat.

3 stars.

Speed Tweak.

This skill increases the maximum speed of your mech and is widely considered to be one of the most important skills in this game and while it can save you some tons, by allowing you to switch to a smaller engine without losing speed, it's ultimately up to you if you really need this given the heavy investment.

I'm going to strongly recommend this skill, but if you only need Kinetic Burst and Hand Brake or the Torso Skills, then you can skip this albeit at the loss of 4-6 KPH on average.

5 stars. Strongly recommended!

Jump Jets Branch.

Spoiler

Invest here if you use JJ. Unfortunately, Hover Jets might not see any noticeable improvement. Better to invest here only on mechs with JJs of 85 tons or less.

Heat Shielding.

This skill reduces the heat generated from JJ. I barely noticed a difference.

1 star. Don't waste your points!

Vectoring.

This skill increases forward thrust, plunging you a bit further that normal along that path. Don't use this if you plan to pop-tart!

3 stars.

Vent Calibration.

This skill increases the amount of fuel your JJ have, allowing you to travel higher or farther.

4 stars.

Lift Speed.

This skill increases the initial lift of your jump, allowing you to travel higher. Neat.

4 stars. Strongly recommended!

Operations Branch.

Spoiler

This branch is unusual. Like the Survival branch, there are junk nodes. Unlike the Survival branch, there are a LOT more junk nodes! PGI knows how important Cool Run and Heat
Containment are and has buried them under tons of junk nodes!

No. They didn't have a good reason for this. No. They aren't going to change this in the near future. Yes, it's pretty bad. You really only need to take the top half of this tree. The lower half is where most of the junk congregates. I would almost recommend that you skip this branch
entirely.

Quick Ignition.

This skill increases your start up time after shutting down, either be choice or by overheating.

Manage your heat better!

1 star. Don't waste your points! (But you have to. I'm sorry.)

Speed Retention.

This skill allows you to travel faster while legged. Maybe useful for Lights and Mediums. Anything heavier than 50 tons shouldn't lose a leg.

1 star. Don't waste your points!

Improved (tastier?) Gyros.

This skill reduces screen shake from autocannon blasts and missile barrages. Neat. Tastes better than Speed Retention.

2 stars.

Hill Climb.

This skill reduces the amount of speed (temporarily) lost while travelling up slopes. Useless if you have JJ and use those. Maybe, just MAYBE, a few Lights can see SOME use from this but why couldn't PGI just bake it into the system with tastier gyros? I'm hungry now. Aren't you? More generally useful than Improved (tastier) Gyros but with added salt for your diet!

2 stars.

Heat Containment.

This skill increases your heat capacity. It's basically free DHS.

5 stars. Strongly recommended!

Cool Run.

This skill increases your heat disipation. It's basically free DHS.

5 stars. Strongly recommended!

Sensors Branch.

Spoiler

This branch is interesting. Target Info Gathering and Sensor Range is arguably invaluable to Brawlers and Snipers, and the cost is relatively small, but you're not here for that, are you? I can see that you're only interested in the most exceptionally rare! I think then, that you'd be most rewarded to consider Seismic Sensor or Radar Deprivation!

Target Info Gathering.

This skill increases the speed that the paper doll appears, allowing you to more easily identify which spot to hit, what their loadout is, etc. Personally? I like this and strongly recommend it but you may disagree. It's not terribly important if you have the Eyeball MK II upgrades from Serif Industries.

4.5 stars. Strongly recommended!

Sensor Range.

This skill increases the range that you can detect your opponents on the battlefield. Good for Snipers or LRM carriers. Not very good for anything else.

3 stars.

Target Decay.

This skill increases the time that a target will still have their information available if they run behind you or into cover. This can be useful, but generally you should and can safely avoid this.

2 stars.

Target Retention.

This skill, apparently, allows you to hold target info if they run behind you. Shouldn't Target Decay do that already? Maybe useful for Lights or against Lights.

1 star. Don't waste your points!

Advanced Zoom.

This skill unlocked another level of zoom. Very useful for Snipers.

3 stars.

Enhanced ECM.

This skill shouldn't exist. Why does PGI keep nerfing ECM? It's not that powerful, LRMs are just mediocre™! Maybe for mechs with ECM, but this isn't right. Because you're forced to invest heavily into the Sensor tree to get this, I'd rather just bring more ammo or DHS but if you really want ECM? This is invaluable.

4 stars.

Radar Deprivation.

This skill was incredibly powerful before, as a module, and is still powerful with only 60% investment but Target Decay neutralizes it's effectiveness, and you might take a few of those nodes to GET to Radar Deprivation. I want to strongly recommend this but I just can't!

3.5 stars.

Seismic Sensor.

This skill is basically a wall hack up to 200 meters. You need to take both skill nodes or it simply doesn't work properly. Probably a bug. Very probably a feature.

4 stars.

Auxiliary Branch.

This branch is a noob trap. Don't invest here unless you play competitively, and even if you do? I wouldn't recommend it unless you REALLY want the UAV or Artillery Strike buffs and extra Consumable Slots. Cool shot is nice but with skills in Firepower or Operations you should be able to alpha 2-3 times already.

Use this calculator to build a template for your mechs and I can help you find a path or decide between a few different builds!

https://kitlaan.gitlab.io/mwoskill/

Edited by cazidin, 21 May 2017 - 05:03 PM.

[Wattila]

Nice writeup. Can agree with the conclusion: Invest in Firepower, Mobility, and Operations. Survival is nice for structure/armor quirked mechs, but the opportunity cost (due to all the crap nodes) is so high I'm having hard time liking it. Survival gets better for dakka boats (and some brawlers) that get less value from the Firepower tree, and thus have free points. Something like ON-1V is a prime example as it also has great armor quirks. Sensors tree is also something I wouldn't pick for every mech as it's very situational, prefer to buy nodes that help all the time.

Edited by Wattila, 19 May 2017 - 08:23 AM.

[cazidin]

Wattila, on 19 May 2017 - 08:20 AM, said:

Nice writeup. Can agree with the conclusion: Invest in Firepower, Mobility, and Operations. Survival is nice for structure/armor quirked mechs, but the opportunity cost is so high I'm having hard time liking it. Survival gets better for dakka boats that get less value from the Firepower tree, and thus have free points. Something like ON-1V is a prime example as it also has great armor quirks.

Here's the TL:DR version*. Any tips, Wattila? Would you change any of the ratings?

*I mean that kindly. I want people to read and understand the why and wherefore, but that helps. I was going to add one, but later.

Edited by cazidin, 19 May 2017 - 08:22 AM.

[Wattila]

cazidin, on 19 May 2017 - 08:21 AM, said:

Here's the TL:DR version*. Any tips, Wattila? Would you change any of the ratings?

*I mean that kindly. I want people to read and understand the why and wherefore, but that helps. I was going to add one, but later.

Not really, I don't think the nodes can really be fairly rated, as their value is different depending on your loadout. Heat gen and range are valuable to a laser boat, while a dakka boat would avoid picking them and go for velocity and cooldown instead. I feel it's more important to know which nodes help you, and get as many of them as you can while minimizing picking "gate" nodes that don't help you. I skimmed through the metamechs.com guide which did a good job explaining the concept, might be worth a read.

Might be a good idea to create optimal standard templates like, "21 nodes to speed tweak", "basic 28 point right side firepower tree for dakka", and such, like in the metamechs guide.

Edited by Wattila, 19 May 2017 - 08:42 AM.

[cazidin]

Wattila, on 19 May 2017 - 08:41 AM, said:

Not really, I don't think the nodes can really be fairly rated, as their value is different depending on your loadout. Heat gen and range are valuable to a laser boat, while a dakka boat would avoid picking them and go for velocity and cooldown instead. I feel it's more important to know which nodes help you, and get as many of them as you can while minimizing picking "gate" nodes that don't help you. I skimmed through the metamechs.com guide which did a good job explaining the concept, might be worth a read.

Might be a good idea to create optimal standard templates like, "21 nodes to speed tweak", "basic 28 point right side firepower tree for dakka", and such, like in the metamechs guide.

Yeah, I wanted to avoid adding pictures because this was long enough already but I'll update this guide - in a separate part, with screenshots. I might avoid the Firepower tree because that's really up to the individual but the rest should be fine.

[Cy Mitchell]

@cazidin I really like your guide and I am in the process of reading through it. So far, I have one comment on a node description. If I have others I will edit this post. I wish MWO had a Wiki or a Library because stuff like this is invaluable to new players but on the General Forums it will soon be buried if not stickied.

High Explosive: I believe that this does not increase missile crit chances but instead increases the damage done if the missiles do crit. I can check that but I want to finish reading your guide before I look into it.

There are a couple that I disagree with the ratings a bit. I will list them and then give my reasoning for you to consider:

Vectoring: You rated it a 4. I would rate it lower because it can be detrimental to a pop tart build that wants to stay behind cover. Vectoring gives forward thrust which could cause the Mech doing the shooting to land on top of or in front of the object that he was using for cover. Sort of sweet justice for those who despise poptarters but those choosing Vectoring must be aware of this potential drawback. It is great for enhancing mobility. I would rate it a 3 with its limitations in mind.

Sensor Range: You rated a 2. For Light Mechs and fast Mediums that fill capping or Scouting roles for their teams Sensor Range can be very important. It helps then identify enemy Mechs much sooner and relay that information to their team. I would rate it a 4-5 for those type of builds but a 3 overall. Typically you are going to get some of it if you are going after Radar Deprivation or Seismic anyway but it is certainly useful for some.

Enhanced ECM: You rated it a 1 and said to avoid it. Without this Skill enemy Mechs can detect you and those within 90 meters of you and lock on to you at 560 meters. With one of the nodes that is reduced to 380 meters and with both ECM nodes that is reduced to the 200 meters that we became accustomed to prior to the new Skill Tree. My feeling on this is that if you pass up both these nodes then you might as well pass on ECM and equip and extra heatsink, laser or ton of ammo. I would rates these nodes a 4 for any ECM Mech.

Hill Climb: You rated it a 1. This is the whipping dog node of those who opposed the gating that was put into the Skill Tree by the Devs. It is widely described as useless. However, it does give very noticeable benefits. Take any Heavy or Assault Mech to Canyon network and walk it up the sides of the plateaus there. You will come to an almost complete stop before reaching the top. Now, try it with Hillclimb nodes you will maintain much more of your speed while climbing. Coming to a complete stop is never a good thing when you are being shot at. You that reason and that reason alone, I would give it at least a 2.

Edited by Rampage, 19 May 2017 - 10:10 AM.

[cazidin]

Rampage, on 19 May 2017 - 09:27 AM, said:

@cazidin I really like your guide and I am in the process of reading through it. So far, I have one comment on a node description. If I have others I will edit this post. I wish MWO had a Wiki or a Library because stuff like this is invaluable to new players but on the General Forums it will soon be buried if not stickied.

High Explosive: I believe that this does not increase missile crit chances but instead increases the damage done if the missiles do crit. I can check that but I want to finish reading your guide before I look into it.

There are a couple that I disagree with the ratings a bit. I will list them and then give my reasoning for you to consider:

Vectoring: You rated it a 4. I would rate it lower because it can be detrimental to a pop tart build that wants to stay behind cover. Vectoring gives forward thrust which could cause the Mech doing the shooting to land on top of or in front of the object that he was using for cover. Sort of sweet justice for those who despise poptarters but those choosing Vectoring must be aware of this potential drawback. It is great for enhancing mobility. I would rate it a 3 with its limitations in mind.

Sensor Range: You rated a 2. For Light Mechs and fast Mediums that fill capping or Scouting roles for their teams Sensor Range can be very important. It helps then identify enemy Mechs much sooner and relay that information to their team. I would rate it a 4-5 for those type of builds but a 3 overall. Typically you are going to get some of it if you are going after Radar Deprivation or Seismic anyway but it is certainly useful for some.

Enhanced ECM: You rated it a 1 and said to avoid it. Without this Skill enemy Mechs can detect you and those within 90 meters of you and lock on to you at 560 meters. With one of the nodes that is reduced to 380 meters and with both ECM nodes that is reduced to the 200 meters that we became accustomed to prior to the new Skill Tree. My feeling on this is that if you pass up both these nodes then you might as well pass on ECM and equip and extra heatsink, laser or ton of ammo. I would rates these nodes a 4 for any ECM Mech.

Hill Climb: You rated it a 1. This is the whipping dog node of those who opposed the gating that was put into the Skill Tree by the Devs. It is widely described as useless. However, it does give very noticeable benefits. Take any Heavy or Assault Mech to Canyon network and walk it up the sides of the plateaus there. You will come to an almost complete stop before reaching the top. Now, try it with Hillclimb nodes you will maintain much more of your speed while climbing. Coming to a complete stop is never a good thing when you are being shot at. You that reason and that reason alone, I would give it at least a 2.

Fair points, but allow me to offer some explanations.

Vectoring. I see your point, but at the same time people may just be using it to cover longer distances (or fly over people). I'll consider lowering it's rating depending on further feedback, which I heavily encourage!

Sensor Range. Because of it's niche use, I gave it a lower rating but fully acknowledged that, in those roles, it's invaluable. Good to reiterate that though. New Players may just skip to the rating! I'll increase it to 3.

Enhanced ECM. Perhaps you missed why I rated it so low. It's invaluable for any mech with ECM, very true, but this skill shouldn't exist. We don't need to invest points into BAP/CAP or TAG. Like Sensor Range, it's much higher for a mech with ECM even though, again, we shouldn't have this.

Hill Climb. Sorry, but even with noticeable benefits, I rate this lowly. Maybe take it over improved (tastier) gyros, if it's on the way, but beyond that? Should've been baked in, like Enhanced ECM.

Editing the main post is a bit buggy! Jeez!

Edited by cazidin, 19 May 2017 - 10:50 AM.

[Davegt27]

very few new players are going to get on the general area of the forums

and fewer still will read that wall of text
video might be a good idea

[Cy Mitchell]

cazidin, on 19 May 2017 - 10:26 AM, said:

Enhanced ECM. Perhaps you missed why I rated it so low. It's invaluable for any mech with ECM, very true, but this skill shouldn't exist. We don't need to invest points into BAP/CAP or TAG. Like Sensor Range, it's much higher for a mech with ECM even though, again, we shouldn't have this.

I will not disagree with your reasoning on this except to say, it does exist so therefore it deserves a rating based on its usefulness to a new player that has an ECM Mech.

[Ced Riggs]

Sorry, but it's a no from me.

What would really help your wall of text would be formatting, an index/table of contents, and more succint language. You are spending a lot of words on things that can be explained much more briefly. Instead of providing a 'stream of consciousness' word onslaught, structure your thoughts (maybe in a word file?) first. This will not receive a lot of reading, as it is a hardly accessible, boring endless string of letters.

Good luck, though. You can salvage this.

[cazidin]

Rampage, on 19 May 2017 - 10:58 AM, said:

I will not disagree with your reasoning on this except to say, it does exist so therefore it deserves a rating based on its usefulness to a new player that has an ECM Mech.

Agreed. I've edited it, which is very... problematic.

Ced Riggs, on 19 May 2017 - 12:35 PM, said:

Sorry, but it's a no from me.

What would really help your wall of text would be formatting, an index/table of contents, and more succint language. You are spending a lot of words on things that can be explained much more briefly. Instead of providing a 'stream of consciousness' word onslaught, structure your thoughts (maybe in a word file?) first. This will not receive a lot of reading, as it is a hardly accessible, boring endless string of letters.

Good luck, though. You can salvage this.

Excuse me but, how would I provide a better index/table of contents? It's already listed in the order of trees, but I could maybe add a table of contents at the start and then label each by number? This is meant to be a bit informal, hence some of the jokes.

A strict guide would be boring!

[Liquid Leopard]

cazidin, on 19 May 2017 - 08:07 AM, said:

Radar Deprivation. This skill was incredibly powerful before, as a module, and is still powerful with only 60% investment but Target Decay neutralizes it's effectiveness, and you might take a few of those nodes to GET to Radar Deprivation. I want to strongly recommend this but I just can't!
3.5 stars.

Seismic Sensor. This skill is basically a wall hack up to 200 meters. You need to take both skill nodes or it simply doesn't work properly. Probably a bug. Very probably a feature.
4 stars.

This is one of the most annoying things about the "skill tree". I used to put a Seismic Sensor on a mech as soon as I got it. It was one of the modules that made a new mech bearable. And I figured: For the price I better be able to use the Seismic module on whatever mech I damn well please.

Many, many matches I needed the seismic sensor to tell me about the grab@$$ in the Arctic Cheesebuild that was about to alpha strike my back armor.

Now I have to go through a bunch of junk nodes to get to it. I have to go through Sensor Range, Target Retention and Target Decay, whether I care about them or not. I didn't care about them before, so they're JUNK now.

...And it's brilliant how Seismic Sensor 1 is on the far right of that tree, and Seismic Sensor 2 is on the bottom left.

[Deathlike]

A few thoughts:

Hill Climb is probably more practical than a lot of the options... especially if you hill hump with a mech w/o JJs. Would take over Advanced Gyros in a heartbeat, but that's only because this poop is in the way.

JJ nodes are best avoided altogether (you either put in more JJs or just die in the fact that Hoverjets™ really suck on Assaults).

Reinforced Casing is beyond useless due to the amount you get, but you're forced to take them to get to gated nodes. The only time this is actually useful is if you are using a mech that has said quirk like the Atlas-K (Critical Hit Chance Receiving according to smurfy).

Best way of looking at those defense nodes is whether that gated node has valuable structure or armor nodes behind it (preference to the latter for obvious reasons). The stuff on the edges are a trap (because it gets/gates 1 node instead of 2 or 3).

[Wattila]

Deathlike, on 20 May 2017 - 04:57 AM, said:

Best way of looking at those defense nodes is whether that gated node has valuable structure or armor nodes behind it (preference to the latter for obvious reasons). The stuff on the edges are a trap (because it gets/gates 1 node instead of 2 or 3).

Mmh, the nodes in the wings are too expensive. I think it's best to invest 25 points (or the 14 point lite version) to buy all the middle armor/structure nodes. Much prefer structure nodes as gates, and it's more efficient to get both after getting past the initial gates. Structure quirked mechs should definitely get the armor, imo, armor quirked mechs might be better off with 13-14 points. Can't really pick and choose with this tree, too much chaff.

Edited by Wattila, 20 May 2017 - 06:21 AM.

[Deathlike]

Wattila, on 20 May 2017 - 06:03 AM, said:

Mmh, the nodes in the wings are too expensive. I think it's best to invest 25 points (or the 14 point lite version) to buy all the middle armor/structure nodes. Much prefer structure nodes as gates, and it's more efficient to get both after getting past the initial gates. Structure quirked mechs should definitely get the armor, imo, armor quirked mechs might be better off with 13-14 points. Can't really pick and choose with this tree, too much chaff.

The magic # to me there is 21 points. Pathing to the right side early is a waste as the node you'll be forced to get on the left side would be AMS overload (it gets you to most of the better chunks at least even if you don't use AMS). It is akin to pathing in the main firepower tree to avoid getting the extreme corner heat gen nodes in favor of a useless node for laservomit (Velocity 3/4) but still gain most of the other stuff while saving quite a bit of extra node pathing.

Edited by Deathlike, 20 May 2017 - 12:39 PM.

[Deathlike]

Target Retention is most useful in a brawl.... but only if you are as fast as your target (or faster than it) in terms of a brawl.

It's in the way for getting the right side of the tree for the "other half" of Seismic, Radar Derp, and ECM bonuses and is not worth specing to intentionally.

Edited by Deathlike, 20 May 2017 - 07:55 PM.

[Angel of Annihilation]

Wattila, on 19 May 2017 - 08:20 AM, said:

Nice writeup. Can agree with the conclusion: Invest in Firepower, Mobility, and Operations. Survival is nice for structure/armor quirked mechs, but the opportunity cost (due to all the crap nodes) is so high I'm having hard time liking it. Survival gets better for dakka boats (and some brawlers) that get less value from the Firepower tree, and thus have free points. Something like ON-1V is a prime example as it also has great armor quirks. Sensors tree is also something I wouldn't pick for every mech as it's very situational, prefer to buy nodes that help all the time.

I don't agree with you about the Survival Tree. 10-15 points of armor/structure per section may not seem like alot but it does significantly increase your survival and therefore is a nice boost but like most of the trees, you have to invest deeply in the tree to see any real gain.

Generally for myself I invest heavily in the Mobility, OPs and Survival trees then use what is left over in Firepower. It usually works out to about 20-25 on the first 3 trees and the rest in Firepower with a focus on trying to get as much Heat Gen as I can out of the Firepower tree. Also I am seeing some definite advantages from the JJ tree on certain mechs like my Dragon Slayer but I would caution that specing JJs is very situational and some mechs that you would think would get a huge benefit, mechs like the Viper, seem to get less out of it than mechs like the aforementioned Dragon Slayer which you would think wouldn't benefit all that much.

[Leone]

We actually have a new player help section, if you wanna repost where new folk are more likely to read this.

~Leone.

Edited by Leone, 20 May 2017 - 08:57 PM.

[cazidin]

Leone, on 20 May 2017 - 08:55 PM, said:

We actually have a new player help section, if you wanna repost where new folk are more likely to read this.

~Leone.

I did, actually, but most people visit the general forums and new players aren't the only ones looking for help to navigate the skill maze.

[Nightmare1]

Speaking of crits for missiles and the High Explosive Skill, here's a write-up I posted over on Steam. What do you think?


First off, information on how critical hits work: https://mwomercs.com...-a-brief-guide/

TL,DR: When the armor is gone from your Mech, then your internals/components/structure are all open to incoming damage. These can be "critted." The chance to crit is based on a dice roll. The dice is rolled three times whenever damage is dealt to your internals.

1st Roll @ 25%
2nd Roll @ 14%
3rd Roll @ 3%
No Crit @ 58%

I'll use the AC/10 as an example because it's an easy damage number with which to work.

If you score a single crit, then you deal 10 points of bonus damage to your enemy's internals. For doubles, it's 10-10, and for triples, it's 10-10-10. The reason why I wrote them that way instead of "20" and "30" is because it behaves like three separate rolls.

Now, translate this to SRMs. SRMs deal damage per missile. Each missile has the same crit chances as that single AC/10 round. We'll use the SRM4 as our benchmark. A single launcher deals 8.6 damage, max. That means that each missile deals 2.15 damage.

Let's say that you get a triple crit with a single missile. That's 2.15 damage dealt initially, and then 2.15-2.15-2.15 from the crit rolls. The grand total damage dealt is then 8.6 damage from a single missile, with 6.45 being to a single internal component and the base 2.15 being dealt to the structure. If it destroys the component, then the damage stops being dealt, regardless of how much is leftover (i.e. - it does not transfer to another component).

Now, I said that the base 2.15 is dealt to the structure and the 6.45 is dealt to the component (HS, weapon, ammo, ECM, BAP, etc.). However, a small percentage of that 6.45 (I'm not sure of the exact number) is dealt to the structure health on top of the base 2.15. The formula would look like this:

Damage dealt to structure from a single SRM = 2.15 + (Total crit damage x Percentage)

If all 4 SRMs landed in the same Paper Doll Component, then the total damage dealt would be 8.6 + a percentage of whatever crits were dealt.

Now, let's look at the High Explosive Skill.

High Explosive has two nodes, each worth 7.5% for a total of 15% possible. If you read the tool tip, it states that the skill increases the damage dealt from a critical hit. Let's turn that back on our previous example.

Remember, we had a single SRM score a triple hit. That means that the total crit was 6.45 damage in the form of 2.15-2.15-2.15. If you unlock both of the High Explosive Skills, then that applies a 15% modifier to your triple crit roll. The formula looks like this:

Crit Damage Dealt = [(2.15*0.15)+2.15] + [(2.15*0.15)+2.15] + [(2.15*0.15)+2.15]

...And you never thought you would use match after High School, right?

Anyways, the total damage that could be dealt for a triple dice roll, using the formula above, is 7.42, rounded. Note that it's the same as if you simply took the 6.45 and added 15% to it.

This means that, for a single SRM missile with a triple crit, you gain and extra 0.97 points of damage. A single crit would yield 2.47 points of crit damage for a bonus amount of 0.32.

That sounds underwhelming for a skill that costs so many nodes. However, keep in mind that it's real power is in stack.

I have a Timber Wolf with 4x SRM4s. Remember that the chance to roll a single crit is 25% every time. That's one in 4 missiles. If I have 4x SRM4s, then that means a single alpha strike has 16 missiles. If I use Artemis and am close to my target, then most of those missiles will strike the same component. If my enemy already has all three torsos expose, then I'm virtually guaranteed crits. Simply put, out of 16 SRMs, at 25% for a single crit, then that means I am likely going to score 4, single crit rolls. Then there are the second crit rolls to consider. Since second crits have a 14% chance of rolling successfully, I am likely to score at least one, possibly two double crits.

Let's assume I score four single crits and one double crit with a 15% modifier from High Explosives. That means I have the following:

2.15, 2.15, 2.15, 2.15-2.15

The last numbers represent the double crit roll. The High Explosive modifier would change them to be

2.47, 2.47, 2.47, 2.47-2.47

If I sum them to see what the total possible damage dealt would be, then it comes to 12.35.

Compare this to the un-modified crits, and see that the un-modified damage would be 10.75.

That's a difference of 1.6 damage points.

Now, since the crit chance is 25% for every missile, your rolls could be fickle. You may have bad RNG and not score any crits. You may have good RNG and score 8 or 10 crits. For LRMs, considering the massed amounts that can be fired, the stacking damage from the High Explosive Skill can grow very quickly.

So, all that to say, High Explosive is a nice skill to gain a mild damage bonus for your missiles. The more missiles, the greater it stacks and the more potent it becomes. Keep in mind that most components have between 3 and 5 health, with some having additional health. Also bear in mind that a small percentage of your crit damage is transferred to the internal structure health, so High Explosive also bolsters the damage you do against the enemy's remaining hit points, in addition to his individual components.

Whether or not the amount of skill nodes needed to unlock both High Explosive Skills are worth the investment is entirely up to you. I personally don't recommend it unless you have at least four launchers.

Also, as one final thought, keep in mind that Hardened Casing in the Survival Tree can reduce the chance for incoming crits. Just by spending a few points on the right side of the tree, it's pretty easy to pick up about an 8% reduction. You'll have to take that into account when planning on whether to purchase High Explosive or not, since HE does not increase the crit chance; it only increases the damage crits deal.

Hope this helps!