39 replies to this topic

[cazidin]

Thanks, Nightmare1!

OK. I've really improved this guide... with SPOILERS.

Why did nobody else think of that? Lol.

[Nightmare1]

cazidin, on 21 May 2017 - 05:36 PM, said:

Thanks, Nightmare1!

OK. I've really improved this guide... with SPOILERS.

Why did nobody else think of that? Lol.

Dude, no spoilers! I don't want you to ruin the plot ending!!!

[cazidin]

Nightmare1, on 21 May 2017 - 05:58 PM, said:

Dude, no spoilers! I don't want you to ruin the plot ending!!!

But, dude, that scene where the guy does the thing to the other guy with the line [REDACTED]!

It's totally cool, man.

[TheArisen]

This should be pinned here and on the new player help.

[Nightmare1]

cazidin, on 22 May 2017 - 06:31 AM, said:

But, dude, that scene where the guy does the thing to the other guy with the line [REDACTED]!

It's totally cool, man.

\
Gah! I'm so triggered right now! You RUINED the whole thing with that spoiler!!!

[cazidin]

Because most of these skills are percentage based should I move survival up in priority over mobility for Assault Mechs? (Except the already agile 80 and 85 tonners. Maybe the Executioner, too.) I think Skeletal Density on Clan mechs, especially Clan Omnimechs might be more valuable to keep that side torso alive a bit longer. Most can't shield effectively.

[Koniving]

cazidin, on 19 May 2017 - 08:07 AM, said:

360 degree target retention has the issue of only doing it up close, but it is an indefinite hold for unlimited time so long as they are within range. It does not hold a missile lock once outside of your crosshair.
Target Decay only holds it for about 3 seconds at the highest level but has unlimited range, but also holds the missile lock for that long.

360 degree target retention is useful if you combine it with streaks, target decay, and Artemis / TAG (for faster locks with streaks [obviously the Artemis tidbit exploits PGI's lack of dealing with the Artemis bug found in closed beta; but to deal with that they would need to give Streaks an independent locking mechanic]), and you can fire streaks at the target behind you for a couple of seconds, provided he was in front of you within 3 seconds of firing.

Of course you can forego 360 retention by keeping target decay and using a NARC instead of 360 retention for the same effect once the target is narc'd.

Edited by Koniving, 23 May 2017 - 07:45 AM.

[Nightmare1]

Bumping 'cause the OP is too good to be buried!

[cazidin]

Nightmare1, on 23 May 2017 - 03:07 PM, said:

Bumping 'cause the OP is too good to be buried!

Thanks! I played a match with Wattila earlier today. He did rather well in a Vindicator, which is still a tough mech to play. I'm still trying to spread word of the guide (and win Bud's contest as a secondary objective.)

[Nightmare1]

cazidin, on 25 May 2017 - 12:00 PM, said:

Thanks! I played a match with Wattila earlier today. He did rather well in a Vindicator, which is still a tough mech to play. I'm still trying to spread word of the guide (and win Bud's contest as a secondary objective.)

Sweet!

[Kerusker]

greetings cazidin
you asked about my opinion about your guide and ere we go
i think its good researched and written, much details. and here is the problem. this guide is for NEW players. you install the game, do the tutorials, play matches in a trial mech. then u buy your first mech. you win and earn 3000 xp. you transfer it into nodepoints, then come the question: what first? firepower, survival, operations?
my advice would be: first of all 1 point to consumable slot1. it give u the ability to choose a coolshot and an airstrike, whith that you can do much damage to groups of mechs far away. then few points (i use 8) to the right wing of the mobility tree. all for kinetic burst and hard brake. after that comes firepower. go for the range first, coz longer range means early damage. damage is xp and credits and help your team.
we forget to often that ppl come to this game for playing mechs. sniper, tank, dakka, who knows this after 3 hours play?
i see your guide as a "wikki light", where i can read how the skills work, more as a "how to do"
last words about the jump tree: in my eyes an "all or nothing " tree. few points there are a waste. 1 point for 3% higher jump? nah.
thx for the lots of work you did, respect Sir

Edited by Kerusker, 25 May 2017 - 12:48 PM.

[cazidin]

Kerusker, on 25 May 2017 - 12:47 PM, said:

greetings cazidin
you asked about my opinion about your guide and ere we go
i think its good researched and written, much details. and here is the problem. this guide is for NEW players. you install the game, do the tutorials, play matches in a trial mech. then u buy your first mech. you win and earn 3000 xp. you transfer it into nodepoints, then come the question: what first? firepower, survival, operations?
my advice would be: first of all 1 point to consumable slot1. it give u the ability to choose a coolshot and an airstrike, whith that you can do much damage to groups of mechs far away. then few points (i use 8) to the right wing of the mobility tree. all for kinetic burst and hard brake. after that comes firepower. go for the range first, coz longer range means early damage. damage is xp and credits and help your team.
we forget to often that ppl come to this game for playing mechs. sniper, tank, dakka, who knows this after 3 hours play?
i see your guide as a "wikki light", where i can read how the skills work, more as a "how to do"
last words about the jump tree: in my eyes an "all or nothing " tree. few points there are a waste. 1 point for 3% higher jump? nah.
thx for the lots of work you did, respect Sir

This is a man who, when challenged, rose to the occasion and gladly participated in helping new players with his own skill and knowledge of the game rather than say "I'm pro, I'm good." I respect that a lot, Kerusker, and hope that we meet again in battle.

I disagree, for new players anyway, on the consumable slot. In all likelihood they won't make effective use of that, or earn enough c-bills to compensate for the cost. That's more of a veteran or faction warfare player. I, personally, rarely if ever use such a consumable. However, learning (early) how to effectively use Cool Shot or UAVs can be beneficial in the long term.

I usually do that for the right wing too unless I'm more focused on torso/upper body agility and agree with the JJ tree. Few mechs can make good use of it, but those that can probably should.

[BrunoSSace]

I gave your post a really good read. I like it. This needs dev attention since they is no tutorial out there yet for the new skill tree. There really should be for a massive new change like this. Like it, love it. +1

[cazidin]

Time for another few drops and with the Memorial Weekend Event I think a lot of people would benefit by reading this guide!

[cazidin]

Ahh... laser vomit, Dakka and PPCs. Maybe some of the weapons are underperforming but they're all fun to use. If any of you dropped with me (or want to drop with me) during the weekend event I hope this guide was helpful!

[Excalibaard]

Structure/Armor stacks with innate quirks, so if you already have structure quirks (Crab), the structure in the survival tree becomes extra valuable. Same goes for Armor (Dragon)

Instead of a general rating for each node, you'll have to consider the build you're going. Instead of a rather meaningless rating, it'd be best to list the key nodes for a particular build or weapon system, so people can figure out which nodes to prioritize with certain builds, even if they're weird mixed home-made concoctions.

For example: Firepower tree
Laser Vomit wants Laser Duration, Heat Gen, Range. Avoid Velocity, and Cooldown is less useful due to the heat of your weapons, and due to laser durations, only a part of the actual time-to-fire-again is reduced.
Dakka is low heat, high cooldown weaponry, so you want to avoid heat gen, and take as much cooldown nodes as you can. Velocity helps at longer ranges, but is not too interesting for very fast AC2s/Gauss, or a close range brawling AC20 where people have less time to dodge anyway.
PPC/sniper builds will want Heat Gen and Velocity for more accurate shots, range can be helpful if your base weapon isn't already 750m+ optimal range, but Mobility and Auxiliaries for strikes are more useful to hop in/out/between cover and doe lots of AoE damage.

In that way the guide would be much more useful to me than it is now.

Edited by Excalibaard, 30 May 2017 - 07:12 AM.

[cazidin]

Excalibaard, on 30 May 2017 - 07:09 AM, said:

Structure/Armor stacks with innate quirks, so if you already have structure quirks (Crab), the structure in the survival tree becomes extra valuable. Same goes for Armor (Dragon)

Instead of a general rating for each node, you'll have to consider the build you're going. Instead of a rather meaningless rating, it'd be best to list the key nodes for a particular build or weapon system, so people can figure out which nodes to prioritize with certain builds, even if they're weird mixed home-made concoctions.

For example: Firepower tree
Laser Vomit wants Laser Duration, Heat Gen, Range. Avoid Velocity, and Cooldown is less useful due to the heat of your weapons, and due to laser durations, only a part of the actual time-to-fire-again is reduced.
Dakka is low heat, high cooldown weaponry, so you want to avoid heat gen, and take as much cooldown nodes as you can. Velocity helps at longer ranges, but is not too interesting for very fast AC2s/Gauss, or a close range brawling AC20 where people have less time to dodge anyway.
PPC/sniper builds will want Heat Gen and Velocity for more accurate shots, range can be helpful if your base weapon isn't already 750m+ optimal range, but Mobility and Auxiliaries for strikes are more useful to hop in/out/between cover and doe lots of AoE damage.

In that way the guide would be much more useful to me than it is now.

I believe that I did mention Structure & Armor being more valuable and stacking with durability quirks and explain in the descriptions why I rated them and what they're good for, however, I shall consider that additional information in a separate spoiler. It's painful to edit given it's length.

[Xiphias]

cazidin, on 19 May 2017 - 08:07 AM, said:

Auxiliary Branch.

This branch is a noob trap. Don't invest here unless you play competitively, and even if you do? I wouldn't recommend it unless you REALLY want the UAV or Artillery Strike buffs and extra Consumable Slots. Cool shot is nice but with skills in Firepower or Operations you should be able to alpha 2-3 times already.

If you play competitive the ability to take double coolshots cannot be overstated. Lots of engagements are short and the ability to shoot off 2+ additional alphas is huge, it's the difference between killing a mech and leaving a hurt target with all its weapons. Strikes are also really powerful and basically free damage in comp.

It's a minimal SP investment for a big return if you are willing to spent the c-bills. That said it is expensive and I probably wouldn't rely on it for pugging.

[cazidin]

Xiphias, on 31 May 2017 - 02:56 PM, said:

If you play competitive the ability to take double coolshots cannot be overstated. Lots of engagements are short and the ability to shoot off 2+ additional alphas is huge, it's the difference between killing a mech and leaving a hurt target with all its weapons. Strikes are also really powerful and basically free damage in comp.

It's a minimal SP investment for a big return if you are willing to spent the c-bills. That said it is expensive and I probably wouldn't rely on it for pugging.

Right. That's why I called it a noob trap. While it is effective in the right hands and that extra damage or even the mech kill should cover the costs, a new player would look at this and get the wrong idea. In competitive play those skills are worth more but those players should already know that, right?

[panzer1b]

Not a bad guide, and i agree with most of what you said.

Personally i consider radar derp to be one of the essential things i always get (with a very few exceptions like certain brawly mechs i run in a 12-man where the strat doesnt give a crap if im spotted or not as gl countering 8+ griffin 2Ns), i also always get 100% speed tweak since it is the ONLY skill that gives you free tonnage (yeah ammo skill does this too but its like 0.5-1 ton saved at most on heavy dakka boats while a smaller engine can save you like 5 tons or so even). Aside from this i tend to prioritize heat skills and range, since 95% of all mechs i play are predominantly DPS limited by heat, the best thing i can do is get as much cool run/heat contain/heat generation i can get with minimal junk nodes (and its nice that i get alot of range with the deal too since its extremely valuable). I used to fall into the camp that range doesnt really make a difference especially for clan that already outranges IS, but nowadays i consider at least ~10% essential on all mechs (besides lights that use brawly weapons as who cares about 10% added to 100m) since it lets me win trades far better and helps make my weapons more effective on more maps, not to mention it actually lowers the enemy weapons firepower because i can do the same amount of damage from a longer distance and kite enemies.

Aux, JJs, and armor trees are extremely rarely touched (i usually get a 2nd consumable slot for FW but thats it). JJ tree is absolutely worthless for the most part as i primarily play clan mechs, and 90% of them are either running 1 JJ and thus gain no noticeable benefit from the tree, or have 6+ locked ones and i already can fly all over the entire map with 0 skills and adding more is just pointless). As for armor, maxing it out gives you ~20ish HP extra to teh CT (less on other components), while 20HP is something, its basically 1/3 to 1/2 of the average mech's alfa strike in high tier games. Given most heavys/assasults die to 3-4 alfas (with good aim), maxed armor tree will make that 4-5 alfas, meaningless if you are being focused by multiple targets, and in a 1v1, you will last 4-5 seconds more basically which is rarely going to save you (especially if the enemy if fully skilled in heat/DPS and can keep on alfaing you non-stop).

Edited by panzer1b, 31 May 2017 - 06:32 PM.