10 replies to this topic

[LordNothing]

looking for a seldom used mech to work on. picked my wvr-7d, the loyalty variant from a couple yeas ago. it has a 40% uac jam chance quirk. thats enough to make the uac5 usable. if i go through the trouble of specing this thing out for the uac5, will i have to later deal with this quirk enhancement (nice try pgi, i see through your smokescreen) getting pulled?

so these enhancements defacto quirks, which the skill tree was supposed to do away with, are still being used as a balance tool. i expected this to happen (not for pgi to pull a microsoft and rename things that are in fact the same feature), and i bet these things are going to be flux for awhile. so i guess it would be fool hardy to spec to match quirks at this point. but i never use this mech and thats why i picked it.

[Bud Crue]

They are certainly in "flux". There is an incoming energy balance pass (according to the Q&A), there is new tech; then (also according to the Q&A and other PGI notices) an overall balance pass that will occur after all that. PGI has not, as far as I know, stepped back or away from their stated goal for the skill tree to provide a "drastic reduction in quirks"; and in fact during the Q&A they doubled down on this position by stating that they see "overall quirks" as being the cause of power creep in this game.

So yeah, don't get to comfortable relying on ANY quirk to stay "as is" for very long.

Edited by Bud Crue, 17 May 2017 - 04:44 PM.

[Monkey Lover]

There is no way these uac jam are sticking around at the same level once uac10-20's are out.

[LordNothing]

Monkey Lover, on 17 May 2017 - 04:36 PM, said:

There is no way these uac jam are sticking around at the same level once uac10-20's are out.

i dont think this particular mech can carry more than one of either of those, the uac5 uses all but 3 slots. the 10 might fit but the 20 definately wont. but yea i see that nerf coming. i ran it and got 2 kills before the gun jammed.

[JediPanther]

Bud Crue, on 17 May 2017 - 04:33 PM, said:

They are certainly in "flux". There is an incoming energy balance pass (according to the Q&A), there is new tech; then (also according to the Q&A and other PGI notices) an overall balance pass that will occur after all that. PGI has not, as far as I know, stepped back or away from their stated goal for the skill tree to provide a "drastic reduction in quirks"; and in fact during the Q&A they doubled down on this position by stating that they see "overall quirks" as being the cause of power creep in this game.

So yeah, don't get to comfortable relying on ANY quirk to stay "as is" for very long.

I doubt it's just the quirks that is responsible for all the power creep. It's also the fact clans can do bigger alphas than other mech of the same weight or smaller. 30 alpha? whatever. That 40-75 alpha? That hurts. The most I've been able to alpha under the old system was a cyclops with 111 alpha. So far with skill tree I haven't bothered to go alpha high. i've used the skill tree to make lrms cold as possible with cool run and heat gen. The range and velocity are just bonus.

Not sure if ghost heat is still a thing but I haven't spotted any dual ac 20 builds yet. A few with uac/lbx 20 but not dual 20s. So far with skill tree I've managed to get my C1 running about as well as it did before the tree; some times it run better than before with all the heat and cool run on it.

[Cy Mitchell]

Chris Lower has stated that quirk adjustment will continue. There are some obvious outliers like a 50 ton Mech with more armor and structure than an Atlas after enhancement by the Survival Tree.

[Bud Crue]

JediPanther, on 17 May 2017 - 07:32 PM, said:

I doubt it's just the quirks that is responsible for all the power creep. It's also the fact clans can do bigger alphas than other mech of the same weight or smaller. 30 alpha? whatever. That 40-75 alpha? That hurts. The most I've been able to alpha under the old system was a cyclops with 111 alpha. So far with skill tree I haven't bothered to go alpha high. i've used the skill tree to make lrms cold as possible with cool run and heat gen. The range and velocity are just bonus.

You...a mere player of the game may think high alpha's may be a source of power creep. I a mere player may think that it is mechs with more and more, and higher and higher hard points that is a source of power creep.

But the balance devs? Nope. Its quirks. Quirks have introduced a level of power creep that has lead the game down the wrong path. The Vindicator. The Dragon. The Cataphract. The Panther. They and their quirks are the source of power creep in this game according to the Dev's. They are puzzles that demand specific builds to the detriment of all. By nerffing them they will finally be free to not underperform.

And that is why we have received the blessings of the skills tree to free the game from these sources of power creeping imbalance that somehow are representative of power creep yet magically still manage to be under performers. It is only by nerffing these mechs that balance can be restored.

If only this were a joke.

From the Q&A:

Chris: The current Quirk system is not producing the intended results for the experience we are attempting to provide with MWO. While Quirks have served us well up until this point as a system which assisted toward balance - fairly well in some cases - the results ultimately ran contrary to ‘Mech customization; one of the key features of MWO.

Overall, current Quirks have introduced a level of power creep that we feel is the wrong direction for MWO, with heavily Quirked ‘Mechs acting more as puzzles then avenues of personal customization. With often only loadouts that fully optimize around a ‘Mechs given quirks able to be considered in a “balanced” state, while loadouts which ignore, or do not care to customize into the very ridged quirks often massively underperforming loadouts that play exclusively to pre-canned quirks.
Loadouts often needed to be fully optimized around the ‘Mechs inherent Quirks in order for the ‘Mech to be considered in a “balanced”, optimal state. Loadouts which didn’t lean into the inherent Quirks would be taken with the knowledge that they’re sub-optimal. This was a restrictive system that needlessly caused entire Loadouts to underperform.
---
If they honestly believe that by nerfing what is bad, somehow will makes it good, that by making objectively bad mechs worse somehow restores balance, that they truly think that by removing or reducing quirks that this will somehow transform under performing mechs into those that will be more diverse and desired to be played with a variety of loadouts; I really have ZERO faith that they have any hope in providing balance with this skills tree, new tech and their "future base line of performance".

[JediPanther]

Exactly why I continue to not bother spending money on pgi even though there are a few mechs I really have an interest in and the only way to get them is to spend money until and assuming mwo lasts that long a few months from now they release those mechs for c-bills. I'd be more than happy to pay real money for a few mechs except the devs and management have no dam clue how to play their own game,fix issues we the players tell them about sometimes months in advance, we are the ones doing their pts and live environment. I'll continue to play the game because I like it in small amounts but I won't spend much if any more on the game. I certainly don't buy into that small studio needs the money for continuing development bs line either.

[Bishop Steiner]

LordNothing, on 17 May 2017 - 04:28 PM, said:

looking for a seldom used mech to work on. picked my wvr-7d, the loyalty variant from a couple yeas ago. it has a 40% uac jam chance quirk. thats enough to make the uac5 usable. if i go through the trouble of specing this thing out for the uac5, will i have to later deal with this quirk enhancement (nice try pgi, i see through your smokescreen) getting pulled?

so these enhancements defacto quirks, which the skill tree was supposed to do away with, are still being used as a balance tool. i expected this to happen (not for pgi to pull a microsoft and rename things that are in fact the same feature), and i bet these things are going to be flux for awhile. so i guess it would be fool hardy to spec to match quirks at this point. but i never use this mech and thats why i picked it.

F2P game. ALl things are always in flux, for balance, new content, etc.

Building anything based on current quirks, is and always has been a fools errand, investmentwise. You either play to the Metas, and accept the associated cost, or you build to what you like and want, and stick with it, regardless.

[cazidin]

It's not a question of if quirks will change, because they will, but of when they will change. Next patch? The patch after that? In 6 months?

[MechaBattler]

Good chance they might be incrementally reduced or removed as the balance evens out. They've pretty much said as much. They want to keep balancing the game at it's core instead of relying on quirks. In the long run I think it's more sensible to go that route.