77 replies to this topic

[Johnny Z]

Dance party for repair and rearm ya!



Ya baby ya.

Edited by Johnny Z, 19 May 2017 - 11:47 PM.

[Valhallan]

You want R&R costs? Sure, 1 Free mech repair per day, no dropping damaged, ballistics and missile item repair is discounted at 20/10% item cost (repairing a metal/plastic tube is "cheap") while energy weaps are at 60-75% weapon cost (repairing fancy circuitry is expensive). Also "lance formation" bonuses will have to be changed to only trigger when allies are getting hit nearby and give much more c-bills, to promote sharing armor and not hiding like a coward because of paint scratching. As for those saying "people go broke" that is only when people buy way above their capability and try to run clan mechs when they don't qualify as clan standard pilots or atlases when they are just steiner commanders, running my furbie for example will likely keep making money because its cheap even with an XL and still does decent . It ain't a "fun-tax" unless you only have fun running metamechs for victory. So it's more of a comp-tax and i am ok with a comp-tax, since comp play normally has a tax anyway (time for practice etc.).

Edited by Valhallan, 20 May 2017 - 12:39 AM.

[Johnny Z]

When repair and rearm are added the forums will be so fun.

[Shifty McSwift]

FupDup, on 19 May 2017 - 03:18 PM, said:

No.

RnR is basically a fun tax that punishes you for using any ammo-based weapon and for trying to share armor with your team.

QFT

Now please let the thread die.

[Zigmund Freud]

Andi Nagasia, on 19 May 2017 - 02:53 PM, said:

+15%Crit Chance for LRMs only works then the target has lost its armor

Ahm, it's +15 critical damage, not chance. Chance stays the same. So basically it's same 10% (-ish) chance of doing not 1, but 1.15. So it's nothing.

[Shifty McSwift]

Zigmund Freud, on 20 May 2017 - 01:18 AM, said:

Ahm, it's +15 critical damage, not chance. Chance stays the same. So basically it's same 10% (-ish) chance of doing not 1, but 1.15. So it's nothing.

Still not half bad for an srm boat or using missiles on open armor sections. But yeah it's not doing much for an LRM boat in reality when a target can spread that damage so well.

Gah! Derped on my own advice, thread.. must.. die.

Edited by Shifty McSwift, 20 May 2017 - 01:22 AM.

[chucklesMuch]

RestosIII, on 19 May 2017 - 05:24 PM, said:

'pops back into the forums for a bit, curious about what's going on currently, this is the first thread I see upon loading the forums'

Spoiler

LRMs are still in "mediocre" territory unless you're just starting out with the game, and don't need any nerfs currently. And I played back when R&R was around. It was horrible, and not fun at all. If R&R gets re-added to this game, it'll be the death knell of any weapon system that isn't energy based, and a new age of cowardly play.

There has been a lack of memes in your absence :/ and I trust that you have seen the new decals?

[Johnny Z]

Repair and rearm will be for faction play only maybe, but I personally hope it is for the entire game.

[sycocys]

R&R doesn't need to be massive - if it accounted for up to 50% of average (game-wide all players) earnings it would still have its intended balance effect and not overly set back the infinite c-bill stream unless you suicided with expensive tech over and over again.

Running mixed builds would allow even the less skilled players to earn a fair amount while higher skilled players could still earn quite a lot even if they ended up losing their mech.

Break down the earnings offsets based on weight class or even mech to mech based on stock cost + average earnings, and it would balance out pretty well.

[oldradagast]

No.

This is hilarious. Back in the day - as in "last week," - it was assumed that everyone would have radar derp on everything and ECM, if available, and LRM's were supposed to be a worthless noob trap that existed only to give bitter vets somebody to laugh at on the forums. Endless rage rolled on about how they were totally worthless, everyone who played them used them wrong and built stupid boats with no backup weapons, and it was even acceptable to consider team-killing LRM players.

Now, a week later, with a tiny bit of opportunity cost added to be basically immune to LRM's, players are slacking off and not picking the defense skills - or even using AMS - and LRM's are suddenly "overpowered" because they actually pose a threat. It's hilarious!

[Alexander of Macedon]

Mole, on 19 May 2017 - 09:02 PM, said:

I do get damaged significantly more by LRMs than I used to. I simply do not find myself able to spare the amount of skill points I need to get radar dep on any of my 'mechs. Still though, even though they are better, they are by no stretch of the imagination in need of a nerf or any flavor of OP. Nothing's truly changed about LRMs except it's easier to get locks now. LRMs were a really terrible weapon system. Now they are marginally better, maybe even effective. Though I doubt they will find their way into the meta. And there is absolutely nothing wrong with a weapon system being effective.

Ah, then we're pretty much on the same page. I'm glad to have them back in a relatively healthy position where they can be decently viable in QP if you build for them, as opposed to broken or useless. Even though I don't really like LRMs, it was ****** that you could totally negate them so trivially.

Kroete, on 19 May 2017 - 09:02 PM, said:

If you dont use the counters, you dont have the right to moan about lrms!

If you still cry, you will look stupid and a little bit "special",
because its a very simple correlation you dont understand.

I'm not sure who you're talking to..? That's rather obvious, isn't it? Never mind that everyone still has the traditional counter known as 'not charging across hundreds of meters of open ground' or 'not standing and firing from the same location for twenty seconds'.

Shifty McSwift, on 20 May 2017 - 01:21 AM, said:

Still not half bad for an srm boat or using missiles on open armor sections. But yeah it's not doing much for an LRM boat in reality when a target can spread that damage so well.

Gah! Derped on my own advice, thread.. must.. die.

On its own, yeah, but when you do run into an IS heavy or assault with structure quirks that dipped survival, they can be annoyingly tedious to kill even after being opened it's nice.

[Johnny Z]

Maybe they can offer opt in game modes. Weiner mode for the players that think repair and rearm is to difficult.

[oldradagast]

Johnny Z, on 20 May 2017 - 07:03 AM, said:

Maybe they can offer opt in game modes. Weiner mode for the players that think repair and rearm is to difficult.

Repair and rearm, as implemented previous in MWO, has no place in a game like this. It was so brutal that players ended up bankrupt just for playing - what a great way to attract new players! It also was proven to simply reward energy-only builds and punish people for sharing armor and taking damage... because this game really needs to encourage more hiding in the back...

Yes, yes - with enough effort, Repair and Rearm could be made to work, but why bother? In Quick play mode it is, at best, just another tax to reduce already dismal game earnings. In Faction play, it could be used to create some vast, complicated world full of resource management and so forth, but that game mode is nothing but Quick play with worse maps and respawns, so it's a waste of effort there, too.

The ONLY time I've seen Repair and Rearm costs work right is in games like World of Warships with tiers. The costs associated with playing only top-tier ships forces players to sometimes play lower tier ships to make money. That prevents the game's population from eventually all migrating to tier 10 and leaving the rest of the game empty. But since MWO has no tiers, no economy, and no in-depth faction play, Repair and Rearm would just be another stupid tax on players that punishes them for playing the game.

Edited by oldradagast, 20 May 2017 - 07:16 AM.

[jaytar]

git gud

[Johnny Z]

oldradagast, on 20 May 2017 - 06:08 AM, said:

No.

This is hilarious. Back in the day - as in "last week," - it was assumed that everyone would have radar derp on everything and ECM, if available, and LRM's were supposed to be a worthless noob trap that existed only to give bitter vets somebody to laugh at on the forums. Endless rage rolled on about how they were totally worthless, everyone who played them used them wrong and built stupid boats with no backup weapons, and it was even acceptable to consider team-killing LRM players.

Now, a week later, with a tiny bit of opportunity cost added to be basically immune to LRM's, players are slacking off and not picking the defense skills - or even using AMS - and LRM's are suddenly "overpowered" because they actually pose a threat. It's hilarious!

Yep the game needs more depth not just repair and rearm.

[Felicitatem Parco]

JadePanther, on 19 May 2017 - 02:40 PM, said:

Or just take another few years off till [REDACTED] gets straightened out.. Ammo costs might be a nice offset to them being ridiculous. that or perhaps time to nerf LRM skills.. Something should be done or really its just see lrms flying everywhere and just overheat to death and find a map that can be defendable from them..

Ammo costs are a great way to make paying players more powerful than free players. That is not in the spirit of a free-to-play game.

I didn't see the part of your post where you say all autocannon and Gauss use or should pay for gauss and autocannon ammo. You might want to add that part in.

Also this game has a skill tree. It's an area where you can level up the skills of your mech, and one of those skills is called radar deprivation. It breaks missile lock when you step out of line of sight for the people shooting missiles at you. You might want to explore that option.

There's also an equipment in this game called AMS. It stands for anti-missile system.. you might want to experiment with this too and don't forget to mount ammunition for it. Do you think there should also be anti-missile system reload cost?

[Johnny Z]

Prosperity Park, on 20 May 2017 - 08:10 AM, said:

Ammo costs are a great way to make paying players more powerful than free players. That is not in the spirit of a free-to-play game.

I didn't see the part of your post where you say all autocannon and Gauss use or should pay for gauss and autocannon ammo. You might want to add that part in.

Also this game has a skill tree. It's an area where you can level up the skills of your mech, and one of those skills is called radar deprivation. It breaks missile lock when you step out of line of sight for the people shooting missiles at you. You might want to explore that option.

There's also an equipment in this game called AMS. It stands for anti-missile system.. you might want to experiment with this too and don't forget to mount ammunition for it. Do you think there should also be anti-missile system reload cost?

I am not sure exactly how it should be done, but that the sim and game would benefit from it.

If its a big deal maybe there should be a weiner mode some can opt into if its a big deal.

Edited by Johnny Z, 20 May 2017 - 08:20 AM.

[RestosIII]

chucklesMuch, on 20 May 2017 - 01:28 AM, said:

There has been a lack of memes in your absence :/ and I trust that you have seen the new decals?

....

I was not aware of them. I'm going to murder Cazidin. I've been using him as a source of news for this game, and he never mentioned them.

[Lightfoot]

LRMs are still pretty useless. I think it's just that the new Skill Tree deludes players into thinking they might be worth a try. Mostly though you get bad scores with them and once in a while a good game. So I think the shine will fade very soon.

On the other hand, LRMs are a part of MechWarrior. Grow some.

[oldradagast]

Johnny Z, on 20 May 2017 - 08:02 AM, said:

Yep the game needs more depth not just repair and rearm.

Agreed. Repair and Rearm, along with lots of things - mech availability and cost varying based upon who owns which planets, etc. - would make the game deeper and offer some level of meaning to it all. My opposition to repair and rearm isn't that it CAN'T work, but that it cannot work in the game as currently designed, IMHO. If PGI did Repair and Rearm, it would just be another stupid tax that punishes players for taking damage vs. hiding in the back and using weapons with ammo. There's no hope of them doing it right. They failed the first time with it back in Beta, and they'd need to create an entire game economy for it to be anything more than a tax for playing the game.