17 replies to this topic

[Felicitatem Parco]

We all know the storm that was caused when Piranha games announced the new Clan hero Omnimechs that contain pods which would obsolete free pods or just serve as an outright Improvement to existing free designs.

That was because you could buy a hero Mech and just strip the omnipod and put it on existing Mechs to create a combination which is superior to the freely available combinations.

However these new hero Mechs are battlemechs. There are no Omni pods. You do not have to worry about swapping. I think PGI went a little bit overboard with keeping them weak because they were afraid of people complaining. They were right to be concerned but the conservative loadouts are just lacking.

Anyone care to share how they think these battlemechs could have come out without being pay-to-win but still stronger than they are now?

[FupDup]

Prosperity Park, on 19 May 2017 - 03:44 PM, said:

Anyone care to share how they think these battlemechs could have come out without being pay-to-win but still stronger than they are now?

The Jenner could use a second energy hardpoint. Maybe spread out the energy hardpoints to have one in each ST rather than both in the CT.

The Hunch probably needs JJs and could really just have 2E in one side torso and 2B in the other side with no arm weapons.

IDK about the Lowlander or Onion.

[InvictusLee]

Prosperity Park, on 19 May 2017 - 03:44 PM, said:

Anyone care to share how they think these battlemechs could have come out without being pay-to-win but still stronger than they are now?

The short answer is no.
Reason being is that all of those mechs have fairly OP champion variants and most of their base variants have very nice hardpoint layouts to build on from the start.

Which is why I got all excited when I saw the artwork.
It was new, different and possibly, something I could use.

[Cy Mitchell]

Yes, it is easier for an Omni Mech pod to cause an imbalance because of the ability to move it to another chassis and maximize hardpoints. That is one of the downsides of the MechLab in MWO.

However, if any of these new Hero variants had been superior to the best of the free to play existing variants for that chassis then they would have met the definition of P2W that is used by some on this forum and reddit.

PGI must have decided to avoid any chance of further accusations of P2W with these latest releases.

[Nicodemus Rosse]

Jenner: Depends. If the clan HMG is amazing, or if it plays well with a big AC, or if you get LOLs from the idea of a Gauss Jenner, it's fine. I'd have preferred ECM, but that plus even remotely good hardpoints would probably bring out the OP squad. *gives CDA-3M the side-eye*

Hunchback: How about more than 2 torso hardpoints? I'd have loved a 6E RT like the HBK-4P plus 1B and 1M on the LT. Or 1M+2E on both side torsos, 1B on each arm, default config 4 MPL, 2 ATM, 2 HMG, huge engine. Or the current hardpoints but a much larger engine cap?

Orion: One more of pretty much any hardpoint, OR move the Ballistic hardpoint to the upper LT in line with the cockpit, instead of the low RT. Would pair well with MASC but might avoid being OP simply because most of the few hardpoints would still be low-slung.

Highlander: ECM, or crazy jump jet quirks. Something to give it personality, right now it just rounds out the options for HGN-IIC hardpoint selection.

[Lupis Volk]

Well if people call the Clan battlemech heros op i'll point them to the new IS heros and say "So these guys aren't OP and p2w as well. heck two get ecm when the chassis doesn't have it"

[Felicitatem Parco]

Lupis Volk, on 19 May 2017 - 06:22 PM, said:

Well if people call the Clan battlemech heros op i'll point them to the new IS heros and say "So these guys aren't OP and p2w as well. heck two get ecm when the chassis doesn't have it"

Problem is that nobody yet has called the new clan heros "OP."

If no calls of OP have been evoked within 30 minutes of announcement, then we can safely assume that it's to the point where people looking for ways to decry it/them as unfair have failed in their efforts... And there are people who were deliberately looking for something to complain about. If they can't find a way to call it OP when they already have a clear drive to do so speaks much about the situation...

*Okay, I will stop laying it on as thick*

[Battlemaster56]

I just want my Orion IIC to have 1 more energy hardpoint in each arm atleast to help, masc is not a big compensation for it's ack of firepower that the other Orions can capitalize and able to run at a decent speeds.

[Cy Mitchell]

Prosperity Park, on 19 May 2017 - 07:13 PM, said:

Problem is that nobody yet has called the new clan heros "OP."

If no calls of OP have been evoked within 30 minutes of announcement, then we can safely assume that it's to the point where people looking for ways to decry it/them as unfair have failed in their efforts... And there are people who were deliberately looking for something to complain about. If they can't find a way to call it OP when they already have a clear drive to do so speaks much about the situation...

*Okay, I will stop laying it on as thick*

If someone has not called them OP P2W in the first 30 minutes then they must all be DOA.

[Lupis Volk]

Prosperity Park, on 19 May 2017 - 07:13 PM, said:

Problem is that nobody yet has called the new clan heros "OP."

....Did you see the threads when the wave 2/3 clan heros were announced? yup p2w and op came out thick and fast.

Think this fan base of old gents needs some memory cards, yer conviently forgetting things.

Edited by Lupis Volk, 19 May 2017 - 07:22 PM.

[Felicitatem Parco]

Truth be told, I bought the Jenner for fun. I figure 6 HMG and a lazor might be amusing.


The others... The Orion has 5 weapons. The Highlander might have a purpose you invest everything into jump jets, because the tonnage and weight alone aren't enough to pay for proper Jets.

I think we should really consider free Skill Nodes as a balancing factor, akin to providing Mechs with Quirks. If the Orion has some more flipping weapon options and the Highlander came with a section of the JJ tree unlocked, then they would be more attractive offers. However they would have to extend that same course to all Highlander (IIC and IS) owners.

[Battlemaster56]

Lupis Volk, on 19 May 2017 - 07:21 PM, said:

....Did you see the threads when the wave 2/3 clan heros were announced? yup p2w and op came out thick and fast.

Think this fan base of old gents needs some memory cards.

RIP Executioner hero coulda have a different brawling build that wasn't laser vomit....

[FupDup]

Lupis Volk, on 19 May 2017 - 07:21 PM, said:

....Did you see the threads when the wave 2/3 clan heros were announced? yup p2w and op came out thick and fast.

Think this fan base of old gents needs some memory cards.

Maybe because Wave 2/3 Clan heroes were Omnimechs instead of Battlemechs? Think that might have something to do with it?

I shouldn't have to point this out in every thread about the new heroes.

Edited by FupDup, 19 May 2017 - 07:23 PM.

[Lupis Volk]

Battlemaster56, on 19 May 2017 - 07:22 PM, said:

RIP Executioner hero coulda have a different brawling build that wasn't laser vomit....

build diversity is bad only if it's for clans.

[Felicitatem Parco]

Lupis Volk, on 19 May 2017 - 07:21 PM, said:

....Did you see the threads when the wave 2/3 clan heros were announced? yup p2w and op came out thick and fast.

Think this fan base of old gents needs some memory cards, yer conviently forgetting things.

Battlemaster56, on 19 May 2017 - 07:22 PM, said:

RIP Executioner hero coulda have a different brawling build that wasn't laser vomit....

Lupis Volk, on 19 May 2017 - 07:23 PM, said:

build diversity is bad only if it's for clans.

There is no Executioner Hero BattleMech... But I assume you guys are just agreeing with me when I said the release of the Clan Hero Omnimechs caused a furor.

Back to the point, do most folks say a good extra weapon for the Orion would help. Would a second CT energy weapon for the Jenner bee too much? Jump Just quirks for the Highlander would help. How about the hunchback?

The Hunchback is like a Hunchback 4H. Would just some quirks pointed at the Ballistic torso health be enough or would it also need weapon quirks?

Edited by Prosperity Park, 19 May 2017 - 07:46 PM.

[Battlemaster56]

Prosperity Park, on 19 May 2017 - 07:45 PM, said:

There is no Executioner Hero BattleMech... But I assume you guys are just agreeing with me when I said the release of the Clan Hero Omnimechs caused a furor.

Back to the point, do most folks say a good extra weapon for the Orion would help. Would a second CT energy weapon for the Jenner bee too much? Jump Just quirks for the Highlander would help. How about the hunchback?

The Hunchback is like a Hunchback 4H. Would just some quirks pointed at the Ballistic torso health be enough or would it also need weapon quirks?

I know the EXE is not a battlemech I was just saying how bad it got it's hardpoints nerfed.

And to stay on track 1 extra energy in each arm will help the Orion IIC hero alot since PGI think masc will be a good enough compensation for it's lack of firepower. Jenner IIC it be fine since it can't invest in anything that isn't ERSL, SPL, HSL, and HML I say an extra CT energy point is fine, Highlander need experience in them before making a decisions.

[The6thMessenger]

I already had an idea of what i want them to be.

The6thMessenger, on 05 April 2017 - 06:20 AM, said:

In light of the recent Clan Heroes 2, also this thread: https://mwomercs.com...r-than-pgi-huh/

Spoiler

JENNER IIC

OR

MAX ENGINE: 265

I don't like Jenners, I don't like Oxides. These little buggers, these strikers are buzzkills for me. However, i do like the idea of fire-support Light-Mechs.

While it's a battlemech, that you can tune. It may not completely beat the Adder in many other aspects. Still it can go with more impressive Ballistic-Heavy builds. I don't want to outshine the Urbanmech, but the fact that Jenner is ugly as hell in comparison, i don't think it will win over Urbie fans despite "better" (worse hitbox BTW) performance due to clan-tech.

Spoiler

I simply followed, and improved upon the Grid Iron. It's literally Grid-Iron IIC, but i had a story for it. I also improved on the first version i made, now it's long to mid range centric.

Spoiler

HBK-IIC LM "LA MUERTA"

The Hunchback IIC is the refit of the venerable Hunchback chassis. Six tons of armor, paltry ammunition, and lacks long range weapons, even slow movement speed, it was a last ditch effort for warriors to die in the glory of battle -- or so it was thought.These suicidal mechs and their suicidal pilots are most likely blown to bits, often beyond repair, almost always beyond recognition even. But ever so often, bits and pieces can be retrieved, and piece-by-piece of information can be uncovered. The think-tank of the Comstars led by Yuna Cassel, upon their endevour to understand Clan Technology, they retrieved all they can from the destroyed Hunchback IICs, but eventually the true intent was uncovered.

Among the errors of piecing the pieces together was the HBK-IIC, from a female Pilot of the Clan Smoke Jaguar that died. The ammunition was exhausted as she fought with reckless abandon, much of the forces of Inner Sphere was decimated by this singular Hunchback. Despite all her efforts she instead bled to death inside the cockpit, leaving this badly wrecked Hunchback IIC somewhat intact, and so her body for her story to be known.

"La Muerta" it was called. With the weight of the war upon her shoulders, Yuna took it upon her to restore this singular HBK-IIC in her spare time as a monument to honor the female warrior, with limited intact samples from hundreds of destroyed Hunchback IICs, she could only piece together different variants together. She vowed to end the Clan Smoke Jaguar with the very own mech they sent for death.

Armed with a UAC10 on the left torso with two-tons of ammunition, enough for lengthy middle range engagement. An LRM15 with two-tons of ammunition for long-range fire support engagement, and along with it is a Streak SRM6 for short-ranged engagement, for expoiting holes in the enemy's weakness, or to chase away lights. Four ER-Medium-Lasers, one on each arm and two on the center torso, as backup. One Class-4 Jump-Jets on each side leg at a total of two. 8.5 tons of Ferro-Fibrous armor, upon an Endo-Steel skeleton, with an XL225 engine it's much faster.

Spoiler

ORION IIC



QUIRKS:

BASE ARMOR (CT): 12.00
BASE ARMOR (LT): 12.00
BASE ARMOR (RT): 8.00
BASE ARMOR (LA): 6.00
BASE ARMOR (RA): 6.00
BASE ARMOR (LL): 8.00
BASE ARMOR (RL): 8.00

Not once i ever played the Orion IIC in QP, just in the Testing Grounds. But seeing that it doesn't have a hero yet, here's an input. Basically just shifting around hardpoints, it's practically just the Mauler Hero.

Spoiler

HIGHLANDER IIC



QUIRKS:

ACCELERATION RATE: 25.00 %
DECELERATION RATE: 25.00 %
TURN RATE: 20.00 %
TORSO TURN RATE (YAW): 5.00 %
BASE ARMOR (RT): 16.00
BASE STRUCTURE (CT): 15.00
BASE STRUCTURE (LT): 10.00
BASE STRUCTURE (RT): 10.00
BASE STRUCTURE (LL): 10.00
BASE STRUCTURE (RL): 10.00

Literally just a 90-ton Hunchback, with Missile for arms. As with the Snowflake syndrome, it has two hands instead of one. Likewise the heavy ballistic weapon is shifted on the Right torso instead.

I understand that the Torso ballistic and energy hardpoints, are relatively highmounts. However i would like to point out that this torso ballistic hardpoints can only be filled by 2x Gauss, only with STD engine.

[Gyrok]

FupDup, on 19 May 2017 - 03:50 PM, said:

The Jenner could use a second energy hardpoint. Maybe spread out the energy hardpoints to have one in each ST rather than both in the CT.

The Hunch probably needs JJs and could really just have 2E in one side torso and 2B in the other side with no arm weapons.

IDK about the Lowlander or Onion.

Onion would need 1B/4M/2E or something similar with Atlas D sort of hardpoints...the HGN would be better if you moved the arm ballistic to the RT and 1 more energy hardpoint in either arm.

Edited by Gyrok, 19 May 2017 - 09:28 PM.