14 replies to this topic

[MrMadguy]

Just my 5 cents. I don't play this game anymore and probably not going to, but I see a lot of confusion, like "X is nerfed vs prepatch - revert skill trees", and I just want to explain one thing.

Your algorithm of picking 'Mech prior to skill trees:
1) Pick stick-shape Medium - forget about lasers due to too much spread.
2) Pick Medium with +100500 structure quirks, so it's as agile, as Assault.
3) Pick big engine + free speed skills - forget about ballistics due to lag shield.
4) Grab free heat efficiency skills - forget about managing heat.
5) Pick 'Mech with firepower quirks + grab free rate of fire skill - boost your firepower to Heavy/Assault level.
6) Boat (c)ER-LLs - have 100500 range, i.e. ability to shot from 100% safe distance.
7) Pick 'Mech with ECM - just forget about LRMs, that are intended to be suppression weapon
8) Equip some overpowered modules, like Radar Derp and Seismic

How can't you understand, that such combination of traits - make your 'Mech completely overpowered?

I don't know, are skill trees enough to solve this imbalance or not, but idea behind them should be - choice instead of maxing everything. I've been asking for such thing for a long time already.

Simple thing. Your choice should have some drawbacks, so enemies would be able to counter you somehow. There is list of things, that give you advantage: size, speed, armor, firepower, range, utility, etc. You shouldn't be able to have all of them at once! Light sniper, but still as fast, as scout? IT'S NONSENSE! If you pick range as your main advantage - YOU SHOULD SACRIFICE SOMETHING ELSE. You should sacrifice speed for example, so enemies will be able to counter you via getting closer to you. Light with high firepower, but still as agile, as, again, scout? NONSENSE AGAIN. You should sacrifice something else - armor for example, so you no longer will be able to facetank Assault 'Mechs.

So, that's it. Stop whining about something like "I maxed agility, firepower and speed - can't max my ECM to pre-patch state. It's nerf - revert this patch." You can't max everything - you should choose now. Deal with it.

Edited by MrMadguy, 20 May 2017 - 06:25 AM.

[oldradagast]

I do agree with you about the skill tree forcing choices. I also agree that's good.

My bigger problem is just with the presentation, size of it, and sluggish "spongy" UI.

Honestly, if the Firepower tree were reduced in size by 50% (with node effect doubled), number of skill points allowable per mech reduced appropriately to match the half-size Firepower tree, and the UI improved to be cleaner and more responsive, I'd be OK with the skill tree. It's not ideal - I wanted roles - but it'll do.

Oh, and they do need the fix the memory leak in it. I was running it for several hours Friday assigning basic, needed skills to all my mechs, and performance kept getting worse and worse. I assume that's a memory leak, but whatever it is, it should be fixed.

[GotShotALot]

The fact that you haven't played lately really shows.

[Coolant]

no offense OP, but why are you active in the forums if you don't even play the game nor are going to?

[Foxwalker]

LOL. Funny funny post.

[HGAK47]

Running with maxed ECM and radar derp plus all the other sensors stuff is really really nice on my ECM boats now.

Its quite amusing seeing others in ECM mechs that you can target.... Trololol

[Cy Mitchell]

oldradagast, on 20 May 2017 - 06:37 AM, said:

I do agree with you about the skill tree forcing choices. I also agree that's good.

My bigger problem is just with the presentation, size of it, and sluggish "spongy" UI.

Honestly, if the Firepower tree were reduced in size by 50% (with node effect doubled), number of skill points allowable per mech reduced appropriately to match the half-size Firepower tree, and the UI improved to be cleaner and more responsive, I'd be OK with the skill tree. It's not ideal - I wanted roles - but it'll do.

Oh, and they do need the fix the memory leak in it. I was running it for several hours Friday assigning basic, needed skills to all my mechs, and performance kept getting worse and worse. I assume that's a memory leak, but whatever it is, it should be fixed.

I agree that it is too big. But some of that size is necessary to increase the cost of some skills and force hard choices when spending SP. The alternative would have been escalating skill cost and/ or diminished returns. PGI chose this path and hopefully it will see some refinement and cleaning up over the next few months based on constructive feedback from the community.

At the OP: Min/maxing is a game in itself. Right now, there are many players working to find the ultimate path through the ST. The arguments about what is best and what is useless is ongoing. You are never going to stop it. That is what gamers do. They will seek out every tiny advantage possible. Many of them believe anyone who does not do this is not playing the game correctly and should not have a say in how the game is developed. Everyone has their own perspective. There is no wrong or right. It would be great if casual players and comp players never had to face one another but that is impractical. Therefore, the ST was made in such a way as to limit min/maxing as much as possible. It will not eliminate it.

Edited by Rampage, 20 May 2017 - 08:30 AM.

[sycocys]

I would actually be behind it, if it actually did something positive for the balance of the game and to make role specialization a real thing - even as ugly as it is.

My personal thought is if they aren't going to use it as an actual give/take system to actually push for some of their stated goals with it (mixed loadout/roles/balancing) it would be better to just scrub the buff thing completely and add some actual mechanical costs to the module system (+ use crit slots, heat and tonnage - offsetting drawbacks to weapons modules and such).

It would be far easier for them to balance things and create a more equal playfield between new players and vets if the entire system were just dealt with in the mechlab instead of layering a player randomized buff system on top of the mechlab.

[Huginmunin]

I just want to be able to save/copy a template of skill choices and apply them to mechs as needed (sort of like Mastery sheets in League of Legends). Redoing the same stuff over and over for all my mechs is a giant pain.

[Knighthawk26]

Now that the skill tree is in place and players have invested heavily in it PGI is not going to make any significant changes to it. Even moving the position of one nodule could create issues for players and PGI alike.

So, maybe we will see a few small adjustments but the very nature of the beast they created makes it very resistant to change.

[HGAK47]

You dont play the game any more? (Why?) Yet you feel the need to come here and post on the forums about a game that you do not play?

Are you just taking a break from the game or are you just one of "those guys"?

"Lights face taking assault mechs"? LOL You really dont play do you.

Edited by HGAK47, 05 June 2017 - 02:07 AM.

[Bud Crue]

Sorry OP, but while I agree with you in principle the reality of THIS game's so called "skills tree" is something else.

Here is a play on your thread title that more accurately summarizes this reality:

"The skills tree is about which branches to maximize."

Choice is certainly possible but most nodes are .75% to 3% change in performance of a given characteristic. Choosing a few here and a few their will just result in unnoticeable or crap performance in a wide range of attributes. So what do people do? They min/max 3-4 branches and most will accept the loss of capability in what they min. At this point the whining that you mention at some not being able to max everything is done (certainly you saw that during the PTS, but three weeks after going live...not so much), now the whining is about which mechs are OP in their ability to "double up" on maxed "skills" with their quirks or inherent performance characteristics.

This is the new world order. Time to accept it. Well, at least for the next couple of weeks then PGI will change all the energy weapons performance...then changes everything next month with new tech and added nodes...and then again the following month when they rebalance.

Sigh.

There is your whine OP: lack of stability and a constant "opportunity" to respec -and get charged for that opportunity- as PGI monthly changes the system and gives us the "choice" of adapting to those changes.

[Burke IV]

85%+ of skill tree problems would cease to exist if you didnt have to pay to experiment with it.

[Y E O N N E]

Stop posting.

[R Valentine]

The skill tree promotes maxing even more so than before. You'd realize that if you, you know, played and ****. Percentage values only promote the min/maxing style of play. Why would you take speed tweak on an assault when 7% more of nothing is still nothing? You go what, 4 KPH faster? Maybe 5? Meanwhile, firepower nodes go a long, long ways since you have tons of guns that benefit from them. Sounds like min/maxing to me. That's not a "hard" choice. That's an obvious choice. Get jack **** or get something good.