22 replies to this topic

[Victor Morson]

I really like the Scouting game type of Community Warfare: 4v4s involving mediums is a lot of fun. However, what decidedly is not fun is the way that victory can be achieved when you need only escape with 1 point.

In a super fast jumping mech, you merely need wind down the clock, and the dropship will always arrive to pick you up - at which point, all you have to do is reach the square. This sounds OK on paper, but the problems come when the defenders try to intercept.

Standing in the dropship square isn't enough; attacking the dropship doesn't work, and there is no way you're going to destroy some fast moving medium before it hits the square. It really seems as if the scout has been shot recently, or if someone is tanking sitting in the dropship LZ, that an escape should not be possible as this is killing essentially a fun game mode and turning it into "One guy waits and hides for 10 minutes then just charges the exit."

It is particularly bad with the Arctic Cheetah, but to be honest, the problem is with the victory condition and not the 'mech. It just happens to be the best 'mech at it.

I'd really like to see this changed because Scouting would easily be one of my favorite game modes otherwise.

[Nameless King]

I have never had this issue, when they try it most of the time they fail.

I almost never play with out team of 4 if you are it will be much harder to scout.

[Mechwarrior1441491]

I always felt that the scouts can only get a victory if the mech that makes it to the escape point has an intel point.

[VonBruinwald]

You know what's not fair.

10 seconds on the clock, last viper standing, running to the dropship, a Jenner on your tail, 3 Griffins at the pickup point and nothing but your internals holding you together. So what do you do? Charge to certain death, wait out the timer and lose, no, you do the impossible. You charge towards the zone heart pounding in your chest as the griffins crest the ridge, but you're quicker, you hit the jumpjets, soar over their SRM volley and gain altitude. You glide to the envy of your enemies landing sure footed as an eagle on the top of the dropship. You breathe a sigh of relief as the timer hits zero and the comms kick in.

"You've failed to reach the dropship in time."

Edited by VonBruinwald, 21 May 2017 - 12:58 PM.

[Spheroid]

The problem you describe is not prevalent. Avoiding combat results in poor rewards both in terms of faction leveling and c-bills.

Anyone who is playing the objective is not acting in their rational self-interest and thus is most likely a potato.

Scouting bonuses are a joke, bring back long tom or don't even bother playing the mode.

Edited by Spheroid, 21 May 2017 - 01:23 PM.

[Mechwarrior1441491]

scouting ranks.
Achievements.
Scouting achievement decals only.
Different scouting mode for heavy and assaults. Unlocked in FW when certain goals are reached.

How about a scouting mode around raiding? Jail breaking your factions prisoners? Kidnapping tech personnel??

Edited by Mechwarrior1441491, 21 May 2017 - 01:34 PM.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

Would be great if dropship diving wasn't a thing.

Both teams collide for a great brawl, and after the smoke clears we're happy with a great brawl and ready to go to the next match but we realize that the brawl was a bit one sided because on team had 25% of their force leave them to die and then they go and make everyone wait out a few minutes camping some green smoke cloud while being rained on by a dropship, then they charge in at the last couple seconds and take the win.

First off, this makes the winning team earn less money than they would if they just would have brawled, it can more than double the match time, reducing earnings per hour even further, and it also reduces the earnings of the team that took out the most mechs but denying them winning XP and contract bonus. Generally its pretty scummy and against your own best interests if you're looking to actually earn any money and have a good game.

Also it just seems so wrong that you can have 4 mechs in the enemy's dropzone and yet they win because a Spider jumps into a square.

[Scyther]

You have all match to find, hunt and kill that light.

He has to be nearby for the final run, so at the end the area you need to search is much smaller.

Basically what you are saying "I want Scout drops to be 4v4 Skirmish, brawlers only, fast scout mechs need not apply".

I think the game has enough Skirmish already, really.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

MadBadger, on 21 May 2017 - 03:12 PM, said:

You have all match to find, hunt and kill that light.

He has to be nearby for the final run, so at the end the area you need to search is much smaller.

Basically what you are saying "I want Scout drops to be 4v4 Skirmish, brawlers only, fast scout mechs need not apply".

I think the game has enough Skirmish already, really.

"I want Scout drops to be 4v4 Skirmish, brawlers only, fast scout mechs need not apply".

This exactly is what I want, can we just get a 4v4 skirmish? Open it up to assaults and heavies too, have matches consist of one mech from each weight class vs the enemy team. Put it on the maps not in rotation for normal scouting modes currently so we get mining collective, canyon network, and maybe even throw in some new small scale 4v4 maps like the old maps that got remade into big versions. Have a pretty nice focus on brawlers combined with the lower team sizes and we get a quickplay mode with small teams, easier to coordinate groups, and much less of a poke phase.

[SmokedJag]

This already seems like a real pain of a tactic to try to do for very little reward. It doesn't even give good faction points relative to fighting (somewhat effectively) and losing.

Edited by SmokedJag, 21 May 2017 - 03:54 PM.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

SmokedJag, on 21 May 2017 - 03:52 PM, said:

This already seems like a real pain of a tactic to try to do for very little reward. It doesn't even give good faction points relative to fighting (somewhat effectively) and losing.

Which is why everyone hates it. Doing that to your team is just removing 25% of their potential brawling power so that they have to carry hard to win a brawl or they lose to the enemy's superior numbers and end up making less money then have their mechs locked for the next 5 minutes as Mr. "I'm playing scouting the way its meant to be played" goes and runs down the clock.

[Insanity09]

Sad.

As far as waiting out the time, what you're saying is that for minutes at least, one player was wiley enough to avoid the deadly attentions of the enemy team and make the final attempt to escape. Good for them!

I am so tired of people playing the enemy's game. Fighting the way your enemy wants to is a stupid plan, in game or in the real world. I grant that sometimes, if rarely, it might actually work. Much better to play and fight on your own terms.

The point of scouting is collect intel to make your invasion team have an easier time of it. All the rest is just greed talking. A win is a win, and nets some faction points, as well as the cbill/xp for the win. Getting away with even one point means your scout bar moves a little in the correct direction. Lose, and even if you got all the intel it does zero good. If you have a problem with that, and are just there for greed (the payouts are better from kills etc.), do yourself a favor and go play a different mode, smoke diving is a legitimate and effective method to getting a gather win (for either faction, I might add).

As far as interdicting the extraction zone, let's look at that rationally. The limitations of the mode mean that there is only the one extraction zone. In any sensible situation, especially for one remaining, outnumbered fast mech, they'd just radio the dropship (or be radioed by the dropship) to say the extraction zone was too hot, change to position b. They move away, escaping with the intel, the protect team never sees them at all. Be happy that PGI has at least afforded you the chance to wipe the poor fool out.

[Lily from animove]

If I need money I go QP, if I need Loylity points I go invasion.

If I go sscouting, I go for the point of gathering intel, no matter what they payout is. So just deal with the fact that many come for the objectives and not for the 4vs4 skirmish mode. And anyone bringing slow mediums already failed preparing for proper scouting in the mechlab.

[Victor Morson]

Spheroid, on 21 May 2017 - 01:22 PM, said:

The problem you describe is not prevalent. Avoiding combat results in poor rewards both in terms of faction leveling and c-bills.

Perhaps I'm the most unlucky person in the universe because that is literally all I saw during the event. If we got to be attackers we'd win 80% of the time through a fight, defenders it'd come down to a single AC jumping on top of some random bit of cover and waiting for the countdown. I'd say more than 90% of the time, really.

Spheroid, on 21 May 2017 - 01:22 PM, said:

Anyone who is playing the objective is not acting in their rational self-interest and thus is most likely a potato.

That speaks to other problems with the metagame then, does it not?

[CJ Daxion]

Spheroid, on 21 May 2017 - 01:22 PM, said:

Scouting bonuses are a joke, bring back long tom or don't even bother playing the mode.

Or perhaps they just like the 4 v 4 matches..

But come on, ID, and radar sweep are both very helpful.

[Mystere]

Mechwarrior1441491, on 21 May 2017 - 12:41 PM, said:

I always felt that the scouts can only get a victory if the mech that makes it to the escape point has an intel point.

Data is data. Considering a team has 100% data sharing, it's not inconceivable that each member of the team gets a copy upon retrieval.

[Mystere]

Spheroid, on 21 May 2017 - 01:22 PM, said:

The problem you describe is not prevalent. Avoiding combat results in poor rewards both in terms of faction leveling and c-bills.

Anyone who is playing the objective is not acting in their rational self-interest and thus is most likely a potato.

Is it really highly inconceivable that some people actually only care about the win, especially those already Richer Than Blake? I also already have enough HSP/GSP/GXP/XP/??? and c-bills to remaster all my of mechs many times over.

Spheroid, on 21 May 2017 - 01:22 PM, said:

Scouting bonuses are a joke, bring back long tom or don't even bother playing the mode.

Now on that I agree with you.

Edited by Mystere, 22 May 2017 - 08:37 AM.

[dario03]

I wish they would make it so the protect team gets a benefit from gathering intel. Right now its just to slow down the enemy getting it but its really annoying when you keep telling your team not to get 11 but they do it anyways.

[Mechwarrior1441491]

Mystere, on 22 May 2017 - 08:32 AM, said:

Data is data. Considering a team has 100% data sharing, it's not inconceivable that each member of the team gets a copy upon retrieval.

Maybe with a C3 computer. We sort of have it already I guess.

[James Argent]

If the data can be shared between mechs, why can't the data be shared with the dropship?