24 replies to this topic

[ThunderSquid]

There's a lot of discussion here about how it would be made sure that people actually play mechs of lighter classes. One thing I thought of that may help somewhat is speed of the mechs.

I'm going back to MW4 (not the best, but it's what I thought of) as an example. There was one mission where you had blow past some tanks to rescue a lance that was losing a fight. If you dropped in with four assault mechs, the lance would be gone by the time.

The idea that comes from this is a lot more general, though. If the objective is something other than "kill the other guys" you most likely won't start at the objective, so you have to get there. If the enemy is faster, they can get to the objective before you. Now instead of a fight over an objective you have to assault an enemy position, coming to them and fighting on their terms, giving them an advantage.

What do people think? Could this actually be a major factor?

[Petroff Northrup]

I like this.

[LaorDeLove]

I hated that mission because I could never save them. The other mission where speed was important was the mission on Skye and you had to protect the helicopter from the enemy. Running in a Dashi is an oxymoron in Mechwarrior 4.

Back on point. I think that Speed should be very important especially with regards to Light mechs. I want them to A.) be Recces/Recon unit and B.) securing forward territory before the lumbering Atlas gets tagged for artillery fire.

[VixNix]

That would give an advantage to mixed mech lance configurations instead of 4 assaults, a team with a scout (light mech) and a mediums or two to support the heavy mech(s) would make sense but unless you find a player(s) that likes playing the light/medium mechs I foresee lances of heavy assault mechs (once people earn/buy them who would give it up?)

[Andrew Harvey]

I agree, speed should be an integral part of the game. One of the first things that comes to my mind is Recon missions. What use would it be to have a slow scout that every enemy defender can nail on the way out? An information scout role like that would be a high risk job, but I think that it would be an exciting change of pace for people who might otherwise be exchanging missile salvos with an enemy they can't even detect visually.

[Kenyon Burguess]

i hope they are fast, mobile and able to leap a tall building with a single bound err...jumpjet thrust. they should also be much smaller and easier to hide and with a good ECM you shouldn't be able to lock them with a targeting computer.

[KingCobra]

I think VixNix ic correct and MW4 is a poor example of mech speed MW3 was the truest speed balanced PC game they made.In MW4 the mechs nomatter what the speed said 40KPH or 160KPH they all looked like they were going the same speed across the screen.MW3 was just the opposite the lights & mediums really looked and acted faster than the heavys and assaults which made them much harder to hit.Now that made the lights and mediums a+ in game play and balance as a few of them could very well kill a assault or heavy in a few minutes of gameplay without protectors like other lights and mediums.So yes i think your idea is great if they base it on the same speeds and phisics of MechWarrior3.

P.S come play on gameranger with MW4mercs free you will see what i mean.

[Barantor]

I liked the mission where you needed to take a fast light to scan a factory on a moon and had to dodge in craters with inactive radar and maybe shut down a few times to not be detected by the sentries.

Whatever happens I just don't want my wasp to end up as cannon fodder.

[Xhaleon]

Just make sure that lights are actually fast enough in the game world to dodge things and everyone will be happy.

Was the scale in MW4 actually correct to the numbers, though? If one knows the height of a mech, then one can compare it to some static object on the ground, then time how long it takes to get from A to B at a certain speed.

I'm too lazy for that though.

[TheRulesLawyer]

I hope that they have objectives where getting to them first matters. That's only one piece of the puzzle though. The other is making speed mean something in game. Hit-scan weapons make fast moving units far too easy to hit. I know I started another thread awhile ago about it, but if weapons have tracking speed that's slower than the recticle you can have speed mean something. Move the recticle and the weapons aim point tries to catch up. Sometimes it won't be fast enough to track a really quick mech, so you'll have to take a snap shot when you can.

[Kaemon]

Game mechanics are tightly woven into the effectiveness of the mech's weight classes, so when we started down the road of 'role warfare', a number of things fell in line with that.

So if we look at the strengths of each different class (hopefully avoiding the rock/paper/scissor model as much as possible) they really only work if the game mechanics don't render them pointless.

e.g. If we get perfect aim (as in previous MW titles) then speed is not a saving grace of light mechs.

You can monkey with this by doing 'stick' actions like slowing down the turning speed of an assault mech (rock), so they can't catch the lights (paper) and need a med (scissors) to assist, but then you're effectively nerfing the Assault class just to make the Light class playable.

This is one of the hardest things in games, it will be interesting to see how they approach it.

[TheRulesLawyer]

I wouldn't necessarily say that all assaults track slower, just that weapons in general track slower than the faster mechs. After all light mechs aren't especially better at hitting other light mechs. They just can close the distance.

[verybad]

All the game needs are capturable points and speed becomes a mroe useful factor. Capture with the scouts, defend with the assaults, jack of all trades with the mediums and heavies depending on their class. It doesn't matter tht you've got the biggest baddest Atlas on the field if that Jenner just captured access to the Star League core and they're downloading all the information right now...

So long as the game isn't just team deathmatch, then non assaults will have a role.

I think assaults should stay the meanest...they're meant to fight, that's their role. Maneuver is the role of smaller mechs. Support of others...

Don't get locked in the deathmatch mindset and it'll be fine.

[Kaemon]

verybad, on 20 December 2011 - 12:43 PM, said:

All the game needs are capturable points and speed becomes a mroe useful factor. Capture with the scouts, defend with the assaults, jack of all trades with the mediums and heavies depending on their class. It doesn't matter tht you've got the biggest baddest Atlas on the field if that Jenner just captured access to the Star League core and they're downloading all the information right now...

So long as the game isn't just team deathmatch, then non assaults will have a role.

I think assaults should stay the meanest...they're meant to fight, that's their role. Maneuver is the role of smaller mechs. Support of others...

Don't get locked in the deathmatch mindset and it'll be fine.

I am very hopeful we get some complex objective maps, that require mutliple roles to successfully navigate.

Engage NPC turrents, while your lights deactivate a mine field, so your heavies can capture the dropship before they escape, stuff like that.

Time based, objective based, roles based, that would probably be the sweetest thing about the game, IMO.

Edited by Kaemon, 20 December 2011 - 01:42 PM.

[Draelren]

Kaemon, on 20 December 2011 - 01:41 PM, said:

I am very hopeful we get some complex objective maps, that require mutliple roles to successfully navigate.

Engage NPC turrents, while your lights deactivate a mine field, so your heavies can capture the dropship before they escape, stuff like that.

Time based, objective based, roles based, that would probably be the sweetest thing about the game, IMO.

Yes!

[EGG]

I was thinking this earlier today, time-dependent and distance-dependent objectives are needed to break it up from deathmatch.

[Halfinax]

Well, you are undoubtedly on the right track, but it doesn't just have to be about can you get to the objective on time for the 'Mechs to be useful. If you can spot even just the location of opponents before they can spot you (doesn't require advanced scouting equipment) than that is an advantage for the team. Even a medium 'Mech with a serious loadout that can get to a location and at very least hold out opposing forces while their comrades get in position would become much more useful. When position and tactics become key equipment becomes less of a factor.

If I as a light 'Mech can relay to the commander enemy positions my team already has an uperhand, and if from there my commander can direct the units at his disposal appropriately to take,hold, or destroy a target based on the units at their disposal effectively my team can and will win over a team that just puts out the heaviest equipment possible. Strategy, and tactics will win the day even in the face of overwhelming odds.

[Nik Van Rhijn]

Not to mention the fact that if you have chosen some fast mediums and heavies you will probably out nimber an assult heavy force and back armour is always vulnerable, especially if we don't have open flat spaces.

[Kaemon]

Perhaps speed won't be a determining factor for light mechs, as much as maneuverability (dexterity) and acceleration.

Speed really only becomes an advantage if you have enough room to get up to full speed and outrun the enemy.

If you're confined into a city map, which requires more turning and navigating obstacles, then speed does very little when trying to get away from the longer range (and considerable damage) assaults deal out.

Now you could slow the reload time of larger weaps, but I'd still like the option to run smaller weaps on a med/assault and basicallly turn them into a light hunter.

Of course 1 large weap on a light would be hilarious as well (light assault anyone?)

Edited by Kaemon, 21 December 2011 - 07:08 AM.

[Nik Van Rhijn]

Or would that be Assault lite (Hollander) :0