18 replies to this topic

[Scyther]

BATTLE OF TUKAYYID 1 (May 2015):
https://mwomercs.com...yid-statistics/

Total matches: 334,558

Total players: 17,226
•Total IS Players: 10346
•Total Clan Players: 7312

Players changed from IS to Clan during the event: 380
Players changed from Clan to IS during the event: 52

Total Mechs destroyed: 961,974
Total Clan Mechs destroyed: 481,187
Total IS Mechs destroyed: 480,787

Total Damage Done: 358,768,582
Total Damage Done by IS Mechs: 179,654,088
Total Damage Done by Clan Mechs: 179,114,494


BATTLE OF TUKAYYID 2 (Dec. 2015):
https://mwomercs.com...id-stats-part-1
http://mwomercs.com/...id-stats-part-2

Total Matches (per player per match): 182921

Total Players: 14322
Total IS Players: 7929
Total Clan Players: 6654

Players changed from IS to Clan during the event: 181
Players changed from Clan to IS during the event: 80

Total Mechs destroyed: 559033
Total Clan Mechs destroyed: 276205
Total IS Mechs destroyed: 282828

Total Damage Done: 198236954
Total Damage Done by IS Mechs: 94238853
Total Damage Done by Clan Mechs: 103998101


BATTLE OF TUKAYYID 3 (May 2017):
https://mwomercs.com...id-3-statistics

Number of Matches Played during Tukayyid: 603,363

Total Number of Unique Pilots who participated in Tukayyid: 17,380
Total Inner Sphere Pilots (Tukayyid): 8,640
Total Clan Pilots (at end of Tukayyid): 8,641
Total Freelance Pilots: 99

Pilots changed from Inner Sphere to Clan during the event: 651
Pilots changed from Freelancer to Clan during the event: 42
Pilots changed from Clan to Inner Sphere during the event: 188
Pilots changed from Freelancer to Inner Sphere during the event: 48
Pilots changed from Clan to Freelancer during the event: 4
Pilots changed from Inner Sphere to Freelancer during the event: 5

Total Mechs destroyed: 1,117,721
Total Clan Mechs destroyed: 534,019
Total IS Mechs destroyed: 583,702

Total Damage Done: 403,325,186
Total Damage Done by IS Mechs: 187,513,848
Total Damage Done by Clan Mechs: 215,811,338

Edited by MadBadger, 18 May 2017 - 05:47 AM.

[GotShotALot]

I'm probably reading this wrong, but that looks like IS/Clan balance was best back in Tuk1, and has gotten worse in each re-run.

[Scyther]

You're not reading it wrong, the only question is was it due to better 'balance' or other factors.

Tukayyid 1: The difference between IS and Clan kills and damage was less than 1%.

Tukayyid 2: Clan gets 2.4% more kills and 10.4% more damage than IS.

Tukayyid 3: Clan gets 9.3% more kills and 15.1% more damage than IS.

There are several factors involved in the steady increase, although of course everyone will argue about what they are. The numbers sort of speak for themselves though.

[Monkey Lover]

GotShotALot, on 18 May 2017 - 07:26 AM, said:

I'm probably reading this wrong, but that looks like IS/Clan balance was best back in Tuk1, and has gotten worse in each re-run.

tuk1 was because of
5ss
Energy Range +25%
Energy Cooldown +15%
Heat Generation -15%
Missile Cooldown +15%
Medium Pulse Laser Range +25%
Medium Pulse Laser Heat Generation -12.5%
9SE
Energy Cooldown +12.5%
Lrg Pulse Heat Gen -10%
Energy Heat Gen -10%
Lrg Pulse Range +10%
Energy Range +10%
Laser Duration -12.5%
Missile Cooldown +12.5%
Add Struc L/R Torso +15

Then tuk 2 they nerfed them
5ss
Energy Cooldown +15%
Energy Heat Gen -15%
Med Pulse Range +15%
Energy Range +15%
Missile Cooldown +15%
Add Struc L/R Torso +15

9se
Energy Cooldown +10%
Lrg Pulse Heat Gen -10%
Energy Heat Gen -10%
Lrg Pulse Range +10%
Energy Range +10%
Missile Cooldown +12.5%
Add Struc L/R Torso +15

Then by tuk3 IS quirks are almost gone and nothing has more then 10% range and the clans have great mechs in every class.


Then we have this patch where they kicked the dead horse.

Edited by Monkey Lover, 18 May 2017 - 03:24 PM.

[MechWarrior5152251]

Don't forget all the Clam tears about the TDR 9S ERPPCAGGEDON.....

[Monkey Lover]

MechWarrior5152251, on 18 May 2017 - 04:24 PM, said:

Don't forget all the Clam tears about the TDR 9S ERPPCAGGEDON.....

It was great!

[sycocys]

I wonder how much of the 3k players gained from Tuk1 to Tuk3 was people's alt accounts?

[Gyrok]

MadBadger, on 18 May 2017 - 02:52 PM, said:

You're not reading it wrong, the only question is was it due to better 'balance' or other factors.

Tukayyid 1: The difference between IS and Clan kills and damage was less than 1%.

Tukayyid 2: Clan gets 2.4% more kills and 10.4% more damage than IS.

Tukayyid 3: Clan gets 9.3% more kills and 15.1% more damage than IS.

There are several factors involved in the steady increase, although of course everyone will argue about what they are. The numbers sort of speak for themselves though.

Armor/structure quirks are the culprit for the damage numbers. Kills was just due to all the comp teams running clans.

[RAM]

MadBadger, on 18 May 2017 - 02:52 PM, said:

The numbers sort of speak for themselves though.

No, they really do not.


RAM
ELH

[Gyrok]

MechWarrior5152251, on 18 May 2017 - 04:24 PM, said:

Don't forget all the Clam tears about the TDR 9S ERPPCAGGEDON.....

You clearly never ran up against MS/228/SJR with 3 waves of those things spamming PPCs. You seriously could have blotted out the sky with PPC particles and the other side would not be remotely near heat cap.

[Vellron2005]

sycocys, on 18 May 2017 - 06:07 PM, said:

I wonder how much of the 3k players gained from Tuk1 to Tuk3 was people's alt accounts?

Well I know I was running 3 accounts total, one a Wolf Loyalist, 1 an IS Merc, and 1 both for Clans and IS..

But it seems to me that actually the second Tukayyid was the weakest,while 1 and 3 are comparable in most aspects..

I had fun on all three... I love Tukayyid

[Zigmund Freud]

Wow, we actually have more players this year than in 2016. I'm surprised, but it's good.

[kapusta11]

GotShotALot, on 18 May 2017 - 07:26 AM, said:

I'm probably reading this wrong, but that looks like IS/Clan balance was best back in Tuk1, and has gotten worse in each re-run.

Which is funny, because back then IS had Thunderbolts with 50% ERPPC heat gen and Stalkers with 20% LL heat gen and range and clans didn't have Kodiaks, Marauders, Night Gyrs, Ebon Jags, Hunchbacks and Arctic Cheetas.

Edited by kapusta11, 19 May 2017 - 01:50 AM.

[Lily from animove]

Monkey Lover, on 18 May 2017 - 03:19 PM, said:

tuk1 was because of
5ss
Energy Range +25%
Energy Cooldown +15%
Heat Generation -15%
Missile Cooldown +15%
Medium Pulse Laser Range +25%
Medium Pulse Laser Heat Generation -12.5%
9SE
Energy Cooldown +12.5%
Lrg Pulse Heat Gen -10%
Energy Heat Gen -10%
Lrg Pulse Range +10%
Energy Range +10%
Laser Duration -12.5%
Missile Cooldown +12.5%
Add Struc L/R Torso +15

Then tuk 2 they nerfed them
5ss
Energy Cooldown +15%
Energy Heat Gen -15%
Med Pulse Range +15%
Energy Range +15%
Missile Cooldown +15%
Add Struc L/R Torso +15

9se
Energy Cooldown +10%
Lrg Pulse Heat Gen -10%
Energy Heat Gen -10%
Lrg Pulse Range +10%
Energy Range +10%
Missile Cooldown +12.5%
Add Struc L/R Torso +15

Then by tuk3 IS quirks are almost gone and nothing has more then 10% range and the clans have great mechs in every class.


Then we have this patch where they kicked the dead horse.

but you still don't list all the negative changes to clanmechs that were made. Like general XL nerf. But in the end, exactly what soem of ustold happened: the applied balance changes were the WRONG ones. we said that and brought examples, the mass was just yellign louder and buried this, now you have that "salad" and after all that "balance attemps" it's worse than it ever was. Which menas a lot of balance attemps and especially those across the board enrfs, just were hurting the chassis that never were good because they had a unporoportional strong hit by those across the board nerfs.

So what will PG do next, keep listening to the crowd that wanted these "balance" changes? good luck with this even worse result to get then.

Edited by Lily from animove, 19 May 2017 - 04:21 AM.

[Valhallan]

Lily from animove, on 19 May 2017 - 04:19 AM, said:

but you still don't list all the negative changes to clanmechs that were made. Like general XL nerf. But in the end, exactly what soem of ustold happened: the applied balance changes were the WRONG ones. we said that and brought examples, the mass was just yellign louder and buried this, now you have that "salad" and after all that "balance attemps" it's worse than it ever was. Which menas a lot of balance attemps and especially those across the board enrfs, just were hurting the chassis that never were good because they had a unporoportional strong hit by those across the board nerfs.

So what will PG do next, keep listening to the crowd that wanted these "balance" changes? good luck with this even worse result to get then.

Nobody, i repeat nobody "wanted" "those" balance changes (A LOT of IS players also said that more C-xl penalties was a weak method to balance) , the IS wanted better tech/engine balance (disregard instadeathtrap cuz we dont follow engine crits anyway, more heat efficient IS lasers e.g. IS small lasers are a travesty, the IS specific advanced material such as alternate ammo to help the others) what we got instead were quirklottery/negative quirks/more clan penalties when they are already crippled instead of dead as IS.

The IS just took it and ran with it because they were resigned to it, because this was all we were getting and it was better than NOTHING (the corpse of Real FW was still stinking in the next room) and leaving clans are borked as they were on release. The nerfs after initial bringing down of the op on release clans (which nerfed actual weapon stats) were paltry and most of it were reversed later on anyway (practically 0 neg quarks now, a lot of IS mechs got their quirks nerfbatted, and the rescale made it even rougher to run that deathtrap xl), meanwhile clans got better chassis' as the game went on (cheetoh, 2c line, ngyr, kdk). So it's not surprising that the clan's tuk stats only got better and better.

Edited by Valhallan, 19 May 2017 - 05:26 AM.

[Scyther]

@RAM:

The numbers do in fact speak quite clearly, especially by Tuk3. You don't get 10% more kills and 15% more damage for one side without some significant imbalances at core play. The Clan tech deniers will of course say 'it's the better players on Clan side', which only begs the question 'why do "better players" so strongly prefer Clan'? (Note that the 'better players' issue is by no means a proven or even supported-by-stats hypothesis.)

3 Clan wins on Tuk, stats that consistently show better Clan tech performance, means something more creative than a typical PGI 'balance pass' needs to be done (as we can see how effective those were in the past). I have hopes for whatever may come out of new tech, energy weapons rebalance (although that one has as much bad potential as good), and their next set of balance changes... but I don't think it would hurt for the player base to be considering these things as well.

Well, the portion of the player base that isn't clinging to their tech advantage with a death grip, that is...

(Note: once again, I should point out that I don't want Clan and IS to be 'equal'. They should be different with different styles of play, but at least reasonably competitive with each other. That's not canon BT-lore, but an MMO can't play by plot-armor rules.)

Edited by MadBadger, 20 May 2017 - 02:59 AM.

[Gyrok]

kapusta11, on 19 May 2017 - 01:42 AM, said:

Which is funny, because back then IS had Thunderbolts with 50% ERPPC heat gen and Stalkers with 20% LL heat gen and range and clans didn't have Kodiaks, Marauders, Night Gyrs, Ebon Jags, Hunchbacks and Arctic Cheetas.

TDRs were nerfed before the Tuk1 event. Just a month or 2 before, IIRC.

Stalkers and BLRs were a thing, yes, and so were Dakka KGCs.

Clans also had no loss of speed on ST loss, full laser range, and much less ghost heat BS.

[Gyrok]

MadBadger, on 20 May 2017 - 02:56 AM, said:

@RAM:

The numbers do in fact speak quite clearly, especially by Tuk3. You don't get 10% more kills and 15% more damage for one side without some significant imbalances at core play. The Clan tech deniers will of course say 'it's the better players on Clan side', which only begs the question 'why do "better players" so strongly prefer Clan'? (Note that the 'better players' issue is by no means a proven or even supported-by-stats hypothesis.)

3 Clan wins on Tuk, stats that consistently show better Clan tech performance, means something more creative than a typical PGI 'balance pass' needs to be done (as we can see how effective those were in the past). I have hopes for whatever may come out of new tech, energy weapons rebalance (although that one has as much bad potential as good), and their next set of balance changes... but I don't think it would hurt for the player base to be considering these things as well.

Well, the portion of the player base that isn't clinging to their tech advantage with a death grip, that is...

(Note: once again, I should point out that I don't want Clan and IS to be 'equal'. They should be different with different styles of play, but at least reasonably competitive with each other. That's not canon BT-lore, but an MMO can't play by plot-armor rules.)

Clans have more damage because IS armor/structure quirks.

Clans have more kills because more IS potato pilots. Also, clans spent a LONG time defending, meaning that IS were burning mechs to drop gens, while Clans were trying to kill them all to prevent it.

The nature of this event makes it truthfully impossible to try to derive balance information from the statistics that we are given. Better information would be:

* % of pilots on the winning team in their 2nd or 3rd mech for each side

* Components destroyed per side

* % of weapons used

* % of matches won by kills versus objective

* % of matches that required objective completion versus allowing a victory by kills.

[Vxheous]

MadBadger, on 20 May 2017 - 02:56 AM, said:

@RAM:

The numbers do in fact speak quite clearly, especially by Tuk3. You don't get 10% more kills and 15% more damage for one side without some significant imbalances at core play. The Clan tech deniers will of course say 'it's the better players on Clan side', which only begs the question 'why do "better players" so strongly prefer Clan'? (Note that the 'better players' issue is by no means a proven or even supported-by-stats hypothesis.)

265Ton vs 240Ton means the 240Ton side has to do more damage to to pull even (I totally understand IS XL torso loss = death, but that also inflates damage numbers when you get torso kills). Take multiple FW screenshots and add it up: on average, it takes 14k-15k from IS side to kill 48 clan mechs, while it takes 16k-17k from Clan side to kill 48 IS mechs.

Edited by Vxheous Kerensky, 20 May 2017 - 04:23 PM.