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Skill Node Unlocks Not Shared Between Mechs Of The Same Variant.


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#1 MechaNot

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Posted 21 May 2017 - 10:36 AM

I have two Nova Primes, two Jenner JR7s, and two Jagermech JM6Ss. Why do skill node unlocks from one mech not apply to ALL other mechs of the same variant?

#2 dario03

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Posted 21 May 2017 - 12:46 PM

Because thats not how the new system works. Every mech you own has its own skill tree so that you can skill them differently. If you owned them before the patch then you got hsp for each to re skill them. So if they were mastered then those mechs hsp pool would have been 182 instead of 91.

#3 Tarl Cabot

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Posted 21 May 2017 - 04:08 PM

With that said, if each variant was mastered prior to the patch, and you had 2 Nova prims, that means you have a total 182 (91pts*2) HSP. Move ONLY 91 HSP to SP for each Nova so you do not cheat yourself out when building the tree.

#4 MechaNot

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Posted 21 May 2017 - 06:45 PM

View Postdario03, on 21 May 2017 - 12:46 PM, said:

Because thats not how the new system works. Every mech you own has its own skill tree so that you can skill them differently. If you owned them before the patch then you got hsp for each to re skill them. So if they were mastered then those mechs hsp pool would have been 182 instead of 91.


I dislike this greatly. It makes no sense to have to unlock nodes separately for identical mechs. This system increases the potential grind by a factor equal to the number of mechs you have of any given variant. It's all just more PGI BS to me. After I converted all of my HSP and found that I didn't have enough SP to outfit even one Nova-Prime, I promptly uninstalled the game.

I'll just wait until the system has been tweaked to satisfy a larger portion of the playerbase. As of now, the system feels like **** to me. The number of nodes between all the trees closely resembles Path of Exile's gargantuan perk tree. Of course, in PoE, you gradually fill out that tree as you level up, and you likely don't have more than a few characters. In MWO, we have to do it for every mech we own. PGI needs to drastically reduce the number of nodes in each tree (no more nodes in a tree than the number of stats modified in the tree) and make node unlocks carry between mechs of the same variant.

Edited by MechaNot, 21 May 2017 - 06:57 PM.


#5 50 50

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Posted 21 May 2017 - 08:24 PM

I get the impression you didn't read, understand, misread or perhaps overlooked something in the notes about how this was all going to work.

Right from the start, 6 months ago or something like that, it was stated that every individual variant would have it's own tree meaning if you had a duplicate, you could set them up differently.
Given there was no difference in skills between any mech regardless of variant or chassis before, this is a huge improvement to what we can now do with each individual mech.

The change with the refund as was pointed out by many players in the PTS sessions was retaining the ability to re-master mechs that were already mastered. That has translated into allocating 91 skill points on the tree, regardless of which nodes you decide to select. If you did have fully mastered mechs under the old system, which only would have taken mastering one of them because they were duplicates, then under the new system you would have received the generous conversion of having both mechs attributed with 91 historic skill points.
If you had not, or perhaps had only basics, then you would have less points and probably not enough to allocate 91 nodes. In which case, you had not mastered them to begin with so you still had work to do anyway. If you have poured all of your points into one of the mechs, you will have to earn the points for the other one from scratch. OR strip it and sell it. Seeing as you no longer need to get 3 different variants in a single chassis, there is an advantage in selling the duplicate for something else.

Starting from scratch this skill tree is no different to any other skill tree in any other game. Effectively, the mechs are the characters and we happen to be able to have quite a lot of 'characters' in MWO. More than any other online game allows I would suggest. So, let's look at the PoE parallel. If you had one fully leveled Duelist and then started a new level 1 duelist, would you expect it to also be full leveled at the start and have all the same skills as your first character? No.

Edited by 50 50, 21 May 2017 - 08:26 PM.


#6 MechaNot

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Posted 21 May 2017 - 10:03 PM

View Post50 50, on 21 May 2017 - 08:24 PM, said:

I get the impression you didn't read, understand, misread or perhaps overlooked something in the notes about how this was all going to work.

Right from the start, 6 months ago or something like that, it was stated that every individual variant would have it's own tree meaning if you had a duplicate, you could set them up differently.
Given there was no difference in skills between any mech regardless of variant or chassis before, this is a huge improvement to what we can now do with each individual mech.

The change with the refund as was pointed out by many players in the PTS sessions was retaining the ability to re-master mechs that were already mastered. That has translated into allocating 91 skill points on the tree, regardless of which nodes you decide to select. If you did have fully mastered mechs under the old system, which only would have taken mastering one of them because they were duplicates, then under the new system you would have received the generous conversion of having both mechs attributed with 91 historic skill points.
If you had not, or perhaps had only basics, then you would have less points and probably not enough to allocate 91 nodes. In which case, you had not mastered them to begin with so you still had work to do anyway. If you have poured all of your points into one of the mechs, you will have to earn the points for the other one from scratch. OR strip it and sell it. Seeing as you no longer need to get 3 different variants in a single chassis, there is an advantage in selling the duplicate for something else.


I get the impression you didn't read, understand, misread or perhaps overlooked something in my original post. Perhaps I haven't made it clear enough that unlocking a skill node on a mech variant should automatically unlock that skill node on that variant, no matter how many individual mechs of the variant you own; skill nodes should be unlocked per variant, not per mech.


View Post50 50, on 21 May 2017 - 08:24 PM, said:

the mechs are the characters


The characters in POE are individuals with their own personalities; they are characters. Mechs are inanimate hunks of metal that require a pilot; mechs are not characters. MWO is a first-person game. The player is the character. You play the same character, regardless of what mech you are using. Saying that the mech is the character is like saying different guns in first-person shooters represent different characters. Ridiculous.

Edited by MechaNot, 21 May 2017 - 10:10 PM.


#7 B0oN

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Posted 22 May 2017 - 12:10 AM

#skilltree templates plox, PGI !!!

P.s.: Why would I want the same skilltree-node layout for all of my duplicate mechs, if I had setup those duplicate mechs weapon/rolewise in highly differing ways, now that would be a monstruous SP sink reskilling them to what I intended them to do in the first place .

Edited by The Shortbus, 22 May 2017 - 12:13 AM.


#8 Burning2nd

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Posted 22 May 2017 - 12:27 AM

i found this out the hard way after i bought like a additional 150 nodes for my lct-pb and then bought a 2nd lct-pb only to find out that my newer bane, has nothing :)

good thing im richer then i know what to do with.. I just threw cbills and gxp @ it... until it talked

View PostThe Shortbus, on 22 May 2017 - 12:10 AM, said:

#skilltree templates plox, PGI !!!

P.s.: Why would I want the same skilltree-node layout for all of my duplicate mechs,


when your multy droping hero mechs back to back and you want to run the same settup

AKA grinding

#9 MechaNot

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Posted 22 May 2017 - 12:29 PM

View PostThe Shortbus, on 22 May 2017 - 12:10 AM, said:

P.s.: Why would I want the same skilltree-node layout for all of my duplicate mechs, if I had setup those duplicate mechs weapon/rolewise in highly differing ways, now that would be a monstruous SP sink reskilling them to what I intended them to do in the first place .


Apparently nobody understands that there are three statuses for any given node: Locked, Unlocked, and Active. This should be sufficient information for you to see that you have a misconception of what I am asking for. Refer to my last post:


View PostMechaNot, on 21 May 2017 - 10:03 PM, said:

Perhaps I haven't made it clear enough that unlocking a skill node on a mech variant should automatically unlock that skill node on that variant, no matter how many individual mechs of the variant you own; skill nodes should be unlocked per variant, not per mech.

Edited by MechaNot, 22 May 2017 - 12:31 PM.


#10 50 50

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Posted 22 May 2017 - 02:22 PM

It's just in the phrasing.

View PostMechaNot, on 21 May 2017 - 10:36 AM, said:

I have two Nova Primes, two Jenner JR7s, and two Jagermech JM6Ss. Why do skill node unlocks from one mech not apply to ALL other mechs of the same variant?


It came across as not understanding why, hence the various responses.
But if you are asking or suggesting: "If I unlock the nodes on one variant, could they also unlock on any duplicates of that variant"
That's different.
Don't believe anyone asked about it in the month leading up to the release. Might have been swallowed up in all the other posts about gating skills and refunds.

If that were to happen then I would suspect that we would only get 91 points in total for all the duplicates we might have. No chance to explore a different set of skills on the same mech. That's not necessarily better.
The best ideas I have read about are the ones for saving a template and being able to apply that to any other mech.

Edited by 50 50, 22 May 2017 - 02:24 PM.


#11 MechaNot

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Posted 22 May 2017 - 09:31 PM

View Post50 50, on 22 May 2017 - 02:22 PM, said:

It's just in the phrasing.



It came across as not understanding why, hence the various responses.
But if you are asking or suggesting: "If I unlock the nodes on one variant, could they also unlock on any duplicates of that variant"
That's different.
Don't believe anyone asked about it in the month leading up to the release. Might have been swallowed up in all the other posts about gating skills and refunds.

If that were to happen then I would suspect that we would only get 91 points in total for all the duplicates we might have. No chance to explore a different set of skills on the same mech. That's not necessarily better.
The best ideas I have read about are the ones for saving a template and being able to apply that to any other mech.



That is not at all what I am suggesting. It seems that many players do not understand the terminology that applies to the skill tree. Please refer to my previous post.

Edited by MechaNot, 22 May 2017 - 09:34 PM.


#12 Ano

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Posted 22 May 2017 - 11:06 PM

The per-copy unlock requirements are to equalise the grind for battlemechs vs omnimechs, I suspect.

If unlocking a skillpoint on one variant unlocked that skillpoint on all copies of that variant you own, then players using omnimechs would be at a huge 'grind' advantage, as they could buy multiple copies of the same chassis, customise the omnipods for all of the builds they wanted to run, and (as variant identity is tied to the CT in omnimechs) have many, if not all, skills unlocked and ready for use. Battlemechs, requiring a different variant for each build, wouldn't be able to do this and so would be at a disadvantage.

--

You said in your second post that after the skilltree patch, you didn't have enough HSP to 'outfit one Nova'. I'm curious: is this because you hadn't mastered your Novas before the skilltree patch, or because you're consider 'outfitting a Nova' to be unlocking ALL of the skill nodes?





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