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Fun Vs. Performance


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#1 DGTLDaemon

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Posted 23 May 2017 - 01:30 AM

OK, this is going to be another thread about engine desync Posted Image But this time we'll be taking a looking at it from the "fun vs. performance" perspective. But first let's talk about the previous state of affairs. Before engine desync, the primary balancing tool used by PGI was quirks. Some mechs supported efficient meta loadouts, and therefore received little or no quirks. Other mechs with bad hardpoints, bad hitboxes, low engine ratings etc. received quirks to compensate for their shortcomings. The whole thing was centered around bringing the performance of underperforming mechs to the adequate level.

Now with the introduction of engine desync, PGI chose to use it as a balancing tool to nerf "overperforming" mechs and buff "underperforming" mechs. However, the point they completely missed is that mech's handling greatly contributes to the "fun factor" of piloting a mech. As a result, they ended up making well-performing mechs less enjoyable to play, and making underperforming mechs more enjoyable to play. At least this is how it looks on the Clan side - can't speak for the IS as I have no experience with the IS tech. An this forces a very uncomfortable choice on the players.

Let's take a look at a couple of my personal favorite Clan heavies - the Hellbringer and the Timber Wolf. The Hellbringer retained most of its mobility, because it apparently wasn't perceived as "OP". The Timber Wolf was hit by a mobility nerf, and now feels a lot clumsier than before. However, in my personal experience, it still performs better in terms of match scores and damage numbers because it can simply carry a more powerful loadout than the Hellbringer. In practical terms, it means that if PGI were to run a performance-based event for the heavy class, I as a player would have a hard choice to make. Do I take a mech that's less fun to pilot, but is more likely to bring me good match scores and let me achieve the event objectives faster, or do I take a mech that is more fun to pilot, and sacrifice my performance? Frankly, that's a choice I'd rather not make.

And it's even worse in the assault class. Since I got a lot of C-Bill and GSP from module refunds, I took this opportunity to purchase and try out most of the Clan assault chassis, and I have to say that the most enjoyable Clan assault is now the Executioner, because it received a huge buff to mobility, and now handles better than some heavies. At the same time, it is by far the weakest Clan assault, and probably the weakest of all assaults, capable of carrying roughly the same loadouts as a 65-ton Ebon Jaguar. On the contrary, the Marauder IIC is probably still the strongest Clan assault due to the sheer amount of firepower it can bring for its weight (and also due to heavy nerfs to the 100-tonners), but it is now literally disgusting to pilot, because it handles like a goddamn garbage truck. So once again, you have to make a choice between enjoing the mech you pilot or achieving good performance with it.

I don't know, maybe I've been spoiled by the Clan tech which used to offer both fun and performance in the same package. But I just feel that nerfing the "overperforming" mechs in a manner that takes the fun out of piloting them is the wrong thing to do. I think PGI should revert to the previous practice of giving quirks to underperformers to bring them to the level of well-performing mechs. If they insist on engine decoupling, then so be it - let's give the same mobility to all mechs of the same weight. But please, don't use mobility values as a nerf bat. It's no fun - literally.

Edited by DGTLDaemon, 23 May 2017 - 07:40 AM.


#2 Bud Crue

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Posted 23 May 2017 - 04:53 AM

Hmmm...on the one hand the decoupling and assigned base agility values are a nerf to some mechs that were "over performing". See Kodak-3 for example. But on the other hand, they used those same values so broadly and with so little consideration for actual in game conditions that I am hesitant to suggest that they understood what they were doing in this regard.

I mean certainly the Kodak-3 was an "over performer". It was the best Assault in the game for quite a while. The decoupling and associated values hit it hard. Yet, they also smashed down mechs that I don't think many would consider over performing. For example the Atlas D and RS...mechs so bad relative to the S that they have what 30% more armor to compensate for the badness? Yet these mechs are made even slower than they were before (see: https://mwomercs.com...ost__p__5748071). This is just one example of PGI's shot gun approach. You can look at the opposite end of the spectrum as well: Was the Cheetah over performing as a light? I would argue that it was/is the best light in the game (with the Locust a close second) but with decoupling, the Cheetah has gained more performance than any other mech.

So if PGI is using decoupling to nerf over performing mechs, they need to learn more about their game so that they know just what mechs are over performing in the first place. As it stands, and as the comparison charts show...they don't have sufficient awareness of performance to apply such nerfs accurately or appropriately. Think about what that means for a moment. Now try and pretend that the upcoming balance passes will be just fine. Lord help us.

#3 sycocys

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Posted 23 May 2017 - 05:45 AM

The only problem with the engine desync is that Paul doesn't actually play the game enough to understand WHY certain mechs are overperforming. Well that's really the problem with all of the balance efforts, can't actually correct stuff if you can't comprehend why there are imbalances in the first place.

#4 GenghisJr

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Posted 23 May 2017 - 05:57 AM

I doubt that i will ever get round to skilling an assault mech because having to sacrifice agility in a light for TIG and firepower has taken the enjoyment from the game.

#5 godmonkey

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Posted 23 May 2017 - 06:07 AM

i thought that i would hate the engine desync but in the end i kinda like it. Slow mechs are slow, fast mechs are fast (but not lolbroken) and in general the change was good for the game. Now you really need to ponder if you want to have your brick to handle like a smoother brick or do you want to soak damage or dish out damaage. Also helps a lot of mechs that was stuck with low engines but being meds or lights to not utterly suck in the mobility they have. I think it will just take a while for folks to get used to the new movement. I know i'm not there yet..

#6 Coolant

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Posted 23 May 2017 - 07:32 AM

View PostDGTLDaemon, on 23 May 2017 - 01:30 AM, said:

At least this is how it looks on the Clan side - can't speak for the IS as I have no experience with the IS tech.


Why no IS? Is it a lore thing, or did you start playing after the Clans came out? Just curious.

I'm finding that I can get mobility up to or even exceed what my mechs had before and I play both IS and Clan. Some mechs base agility is already at or above what they were before. Those that aren't you have to invest in the Mobility Tree. But, 24.5% Acc/Dec, 25% Turn rate, +10% Torso Twist is nothing to scoff at regardless of current base agility.

#7 Mister Blastman

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Posted 23 May 2017 - 07:37 AM

Uh, indent or line break your paragraphs, please, OP. I didn't read because it looked like a wall.

#8 DGTLDaemon

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Posted 23 May 2017 - 07:50 AM

View PostCoolant, on 23 May 2017 - 07:32 AM, said:

Why no IS? Is it a lore thing, or did you start playing after the Clans came out? Just curious.

Long story Posted Image I started playing in early 2016 when the Clan tech was already out, and initially chose Clan mechs because they were simpler to build for a new player (more flexibility due to omnipods, no need to worry about things like engine size, endo/ferro, single vs. double heatsinks, ER lasers/PPCs vs. regular ones etc.). Later I joined a loyalist Clan unit and became a Ghost Bear loyalist myself. Now I'm no longer in a unit, I left it when I decided to take a break from MWO a few months ago due to my general dissatisfaction with the direction the game development took, but I guess I'm still keeping my loyalist habits Posted Image Besides, I'm a not a wealthy player, and sticking to one faction is easier on the budget. I don't even own all Clan mechs yet, so I still have a lot to work on before I even consider trying out IS tech. And anyway, with all the latest and upcoming changes I'm really in a "damage control" mode now, i.e. I'm more concerned about maintaining/adapting my existing mechs and builds than expanding my stable.

Quote

I'm finding that I can get mobility up to or even exceed what my mechs had before and I play both IS and Clan.

Quite a few Clan mechs can no longer be brought even close to their previous level of mobility due to heavy nerfs Posted Image

Edited by DGTLDaemon, 23 May 2017 - 08:11 AM.






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