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Skill Tree Megafeedback


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#1 Appuagab

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Posted 22 May 2017 - 06:12 AM

General impression:
1. Impact on actual gameplay. Well, game feels unexpectedly better. A lot better and funnier. Survival tree did a good job increasing TTK, most of mechs feel stronger. Removal of mobility benefits from engine combined with agility tree makes mechs' mobility differentiation MUCH smoother. Mechs not only feel stronger but also more different from each other. Massive quirks removal is questionable thing however. Some mechs got a bit underperforming again. Something doesn't feel right about my Summoner and Black Knight.
2. Nodes allocation. Hey, PGI, everyone understands that you're trying to use filler nodes as a way to increase SP cost of useful nodes. Yes, that's good intention and we all agree. But it's implemented awfully. Main issue — tree lacks any system or logic. Filler nodes look totally unrelated to desired useful nodes. This could be achieved in much simpler way with much more compact tree while providing exactly same benefits. You could just simply make useful nodes cost more without any gateways.
3. Economy and refunds. Well, I got tons of GSPs and HSPs which are going to save me a lot of time and c-bills so I'm barely affected by the c-bills sink. And guess what? I'm just enjoying the game. People who didn't get much SPs from refunds are probably going to grind and suffer. Sorry for them. Especially taking into account that it usually takes you more than 91 SP to find your perfect build. My point is that additional c-bills sink is a horrible idea. If I didn't get all these tons of free SPs (about 3700 + lots of HSPs) I probably wouldn't start playing MWO again. «Grinding for HUGE BATTLE ROBOT WHOA» and «gridnding for +0.75% hill climb to unlock +0.1% cooling efficiency» are kinda different things, don't you think so? One is exciting, another one is boring routine. Re-activation of nodes for XP is also just ridiculous.
4. Thanks for removal of The Rule of 3 though. It was abomination (just like modules).
5. Other UI issues (besides skill maze).
Quirks list is a mess. No differentiation between inherited ones and stats from skills.
Highlighting nodes of same type when hovering mouse over them would help to navigate the Skill Maze A LOT.
Auto-activating all the gateway nodes (in a shortest route) when clicking locked node could help to reduce amount of required clicks.
To many clicks to purchase skillpoints. Why can't I just type the amount of SP I'd like to purchase instead of click-click-clicking on a slider?


Specific trees.
1. Firepower. Messy as hell but funny to play with. It actually provides you with lots of choices but it's pretty hard to navigate. Also, why spread/duration/velocity weren't combined into «precision» or something like that? These nodes still encourage boating.
2. Survival. Most impactful in a gameplay way (deals with low TTK issue) but also the most boring one. It basically workds just in on/off mode, like a one huge node. I always max it first.
3. Mobility. It's even messier than firepower, but pretty variative and interesting to play with and really helps to achieve a smooth differentiation in mechs' mobility. In terms of gameplay this one feels the most «healthy». Torso pitch nodes feel like a robbery though.
4. Jumpjets. Hahahahaha, no. Well-performing jumpers don't need it, hoverjet coffins don't benefit from it. Fix the whole hoverjets issue first and then we talk.
5. Operations. Well-balanced but boring as hell. It has basically three stages: 3 coolruns, 5 coolruns, 5 coolruns + extra heat capacity. Works pretty well as skillpoint sink for energyboats.
6. Sensors. Garbage. Cheap advanced zoom is cool, target decay skillpoint-sink for lurmboats is nice too, everything else is not worth attention. Hiding ECM nodes behind so many fillers is pure robbery. Especially behind radar deprivation, benefits of which are overlapped by ECM. Nodes are distributed too widely. From all the trees this one needs to be more linear the most.
7. Auxillary. Into the trash it goes.

Edited by Appuagab, 25 May 2017 - 03:59 PM.


#2 Appuagab

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Posted 23 May 2017 - 07:27 AM

+A few words about some cases of pretty weird «thematic» distribution of nodes across trees.

Improved gyros clearly belongs in survival. It's obvious dps-brawler's choice. It's not as beneficial as cooling efficiency nodes to hide it behind bunch of fillers in distant trees like you did with heat gen/heat cap/cooling.

AMS relation to Survival tree is questionable. I would rather put improved gyros on it's place and move AMS overload somewhere in operations or auxillary.

Hill climb. Shouldn't it be in mobility instead of torso pitch fillers?

#3 The Lost Boy

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Posted 23 May 2017 - 07:39 AM

Wow!

A thought out constructive critique that PGI could actually read and take suggestions from, instead of "whaaaaa! You broke my game!"

More of this please.

#4 Admiral-Dan

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Posted 23 May 2017 - 07:50 AM

View PostAppuagab, on 22 May 2017 - 06:12 AM, said:

3. Economy and refunds. Well, I got tons of GSPs and HSPs which are going to save me a lot of time and c-bills so I'm barely affected by the c-bills sink. And guess what? I'm just enjoying the game. People who didn't get much SPs from refunds are probably going to grind and suffer. Sorry for them. Especially taking into account that it usually takes you more than 91 SP to find your perfect build. My point is that additional c-bills sink is a horrible idea. If I didn't get all these tons of free SPs (about 3700 + lots of HSPs) I probably wouldn't start playing MWO again. «Grinding for HUGE BATTLE ROBOT WHOA» and «gridnding for +0.75% hill climb to unlock +0.1% cooling efficiency» are kinda different things, don't you think so? One is exciting, another one is boring routine. Re-activation of nodes for XP is also just ridiculous.


This!

Building a system which alienates new players is a really bad idea. The queue times are not good at the moment and with the new skilltree which is a big grind for new players they are going to get worse.

#5 Vaderman

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Posted 23 May 2017 - 06:20 PM

View PostLemming of the BDA, on 23 May 2017 - 07:39 AM, said:

Wow!

A thought out constructive critique that PGI could actually read and take suggestions from, instead of "whaaaaa! You broke my game!"

More of this please.


What is there to critique? A solution for a problem that didn't exist?

This patch added nothing to this game.

I've been here since the beginning and this is the worst decision they've ever made, and I've seen some doozys over the years.

I think the last time i made a complaint about this game was Lurmageddon, and this patch has made me stop playing.

This one lower sales, scares away new players, offers no improvements over the old system, causes players to waste time clicking and hours tweaking per mech....for what exactly?

What is the payoff?

There isn't one.

Edited by Vaderman, 23 May 2017 - 06:22 PM.


#6 Taxxian

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Posted 24 May 2017 - 02:40 AM

View PostVaderman, on 23 May 2017 - 06:20 PM, said:

This patch added nothing to this game.


Did you even play the game since the patch?

Did you not see how many long forgotten chassis became viable again because of the skill tree?
Did you not see how Clan/IS Balance became much better? The warlog shows 50/50 more often than ever before!
Did you not see that there are more viable builds per IS chassis because there are less quirks forcing a build upon us?

For me the game got better, most of my unit comrades think the same, they just dont post in here...

There are a great many players enjoying the changes, but they are busy playing the game they like and have no time or intention to write stuff in here....

#7 Vaderman

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Posted 24 May 2017 - 05:24 AM

View PostTaxxian, on 24 May 2017 - 02:40 AM, said:


Did you even play the game since the patch?

Did you not see how many long forgotten chassis became viable again because of the skill tree?
Did you not see how Clan/IS Balance became much better? The warlog shows 50/50 more often than ever before!
Did you not see that there are more viable builds per IS chassis because there are less quirks forcing a build upon us?

For me the game got better, most of my unit comrades think the same, they just dont post in here...

There are a great many players enjoying the changes, but they are busy playing the game they like and have no time or intention to write stuff in here....


Of course I played it.

Long forgotten chassis are being played because everything else has been reduced below their level. It doesn't make them better it just makes everything else worse.

Clan mechs are supposed to be better. That was the whole point of an invading clan. There are many ways that could have been made better. The game as designed put's little differnce between clan and IS anyway and it never really felt like Battletech.

Despite Clan being "better", many still chose to pilot IS mechs. TBH I never even really thought about it. I never intentionally chose Clan as an advantage. I've never had a problem taking down clan mechs and I enjoy a challenge anyway.

Quirks never forced you to do anything any more than this abomination of a "skill tree" that isn't really a skill tree.

Since most people are going to find the "best" nodes and copy paste is it really any different than the old quirks system in net effect with the bonus of being boring, clunky and repetitive?

It certainly hasn't made the game "better". What it's done is make it daunting for new players to learn and boring for those of us who have to spend a ton of time re-learning a few hundred mechs. I don't have that kind of time and it's just not worth it.

Did this make the game more fun? No, I don't think it did and it does seem most of the community agrees.

I've been through every change since this game started. I still remember Bluewarrior Online. I don't come on the forums and ***** and whine about things and post very little in the forums. That I'd rather come in here and play Forum Warrior Online than catch a few games before work tells me all I need to know.

I'm no longer playing, but I'm just seeing what PGI is going to do, if anything. I don't have much hope with their history of decision making but we'll see.

Let's call this "skill tree" what it is: a money sink.

PGI is running out of mech chassis to throw at us and are trying to work in a way to make money. This isn't it.

#8 Taxxian

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Posted 24 May 2017 - 10:12 AM

View PostVaderman, on 24 May 2017 - 05:24 AM, said:

Let's call this "skill tree" what it is: a money sink.

PGI is running out of mech chassis to throw at us and are trying to work in a way to make money. This isn't it.


Your arguments do not make sense at all at what exact point does the skill tree cost money? For most players I know its even cheaper in terms of CBills, since they had Modules in ALL mechs...

Running out of Mechs? Are you ...? Look at sarna there are 124 light mech chassis alone, chassis not variants...

Im sorry if you dont like the game anymore, but I fail to understand why... apart from a little starting difficulties.





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