10 replies to this topic

[Ruar]

I've been playing my MAD-5D a lot lately trying to get used to fighting at a higher weight class. I'm comfortable enough I decided to jump up into my Dragon Slayer to see what it's like playing an assault. Sadly I find I do much better in my MAD than I do with the extra five tons in the Victor. I've switched around load outs and I think I've found one of the better builds, but it still feels weak compared to the Marauder.

What I'm noticing is a lot of emphasis is placed on the ballistic slots in the arm, but the weapon we really need in that slot, the AC20, won't fit. I've tried AC10, UAC5, and AC5 but all of them caused problems. The AC5s take too much face time while the AC10 doesn't pair will with lasers causing aiming issues. I've used a gauss rifle in the past but the Victor's speed seems to indicate it should be used to get into close range, not hang out at a distance sniping.

One big issue is the hit box for the CT is huge it seems. Even trying to spread damage around doesn't seem to help much and the CT just keeps taking damage. I think they need to go back and adjust the size to put more of the damage on the ST.

Another problem is the low mounts on the right torso. Poking the right arm out to shoot with the ballistic results in not clearing the lasers to fire as well. Peeking over an obstacle forces exposing the entire torso to get shots off. This means the Victor has to expose a lot of mech in order to shoot and the armor quirks just aren't enough compensation. Those laser mounts really need to be moved up higher or the armor quirk should be doubled in the torso areas.

The two missile slots are nice and I have no issue with them.

Having more energy hard points on the left side would be nice. Having a CT or LT energy hard point would help a lot.

I realize the hard point suggestions apply to just the DS, but it seems all of the Victor variants could use a look considering how rare it is to seem them in a game. There has to be some room for non-lore adjustments to get the unused mechs onto the battlefield more often.

[Snazzy Dragon]

It's an 80 ton assault; 80 tonners in both the lore and in game have always struggled in some way as far as I know. Furthermore, it's an IS mech, with all the disadvantages that entails. Finally, slap in some wonky geometry and its old tube deficiency (which is finally fixed!!!! only took YEARS) and a plethora of better alternatives.

[DAYLEET]

When all else fail, slap 3lpl 1 gauss. its kind of an :i failed: stamp but it does the job. Dont have any jj on mine, everything in the arms and fast enough to move, its the one given at an event 2 years ago.

[Skanderborg]

Its hardpoint locations make its actual usability on the field bad. That ballistic arm shoots enviroment far more than your target , same with the energy weapons on the opposite arm.

The missile launchers did get a tube count upgrade so theirs that , but it doesnt save the mech.

[Angel of Annihilation]

Also the Victor is a mech of a bygone era. The things that made it exceptional were nerfed away years ago and so many more, newer, better configured designs have since came out.

Truth be told, If it had its original mobility and jump capability as it had the day it came out, it might not be all that bad.

[Mechteric]

Maybe it'll do better with the new IS tech, but I'm thinking it's just going to need some tankiness quirks to help it out.

[Gyrok]

Ruar, on 29 May 2017 - 02:50 PM, said:

I've been playing my MAD-5D a lot lately trying to get used to fighting at a higher weight class. I'm comfortable enough I decided to jump up into my Dragon Slayer to see what it's like playing an assault. Sadly I find I do much better in my MAD than I do with the extra five tons in the Victor. I've switched around load outs and I think I've found one of the better builds, but it still feels weak compared to the Marauder.

What I'm noticing is a lot of emphasis is placed on the ballistic slots in the arm, but the weapon we really need in that slot, the AC20, won't fit. I've tried AC10, UAC5, and AC5 but all of them caused problems. The AC5s take too much face time while the AC10 doesn't pair will with lasers causing aiming issues. I've used a gauss rifle in the past but the Victor's speed seems to indicate it should be used to get into close range, not hang out at a distance sniping.

One big issue is the hit box for the CT is huge it seems. Even trying to spread damage around doesn't seem to help much and the CT just keeps taking damage. I think they need to go back and adjust the size to put more of the damage on the ST.

Another problem is the low mounts on the right torso. Poking the right arm out to shoot with the ballistic results in not clearing the lasers to fire as well. Peeking over an obstacle forces exposing the entire torso to get shots off. This means the Victor has to expose a lot of mech in order to shoot and the armor quirks just aren't enough compensation. Those laser mounts really need to be moved up higher or the armor quirk should be doubled in the torso areas.

The two missile slots are nice and I have no issue with them.

Having more energy hard points on the left side would be nice. Having a CT or LT energy hard point would help a lot.

I realize the hard point suggestions apply to just the DS, but it seems all of the Victor variants could use a look considering how rare it is to seem them in a game. There has to be some room for non-lore adjustments to get the unused mechs onto the battlefield more often.

You really need to run it like this.

Do not fight it, do not try to change it...just go with it. I ran my old poptart DS for several matches the other night, and it was surprisingly effective. You want 2-3 firing groups. 1 alpha, 1 AC5s, 1 for PPCs.

Seriously, at 76 kph with 4 JJs you get enough hops to clear cover and jumpsnipe, and you have enough mobility to stay at the edges of the engagement with the group.

If you want a skirmisher, you should look at running the 9S like this, this, or this.

[Ruar]

Gyrok, on 29 May 2017 - 04:23 PM, said:

You really need to run it like this.

Do not fight it, do not try to change it...just go with it. I ran my old poptart DS for several matches the other night, and it was surprisingly effective. You want 2-3 firing groups. 1 alpha, 1 AC5s, 1 for PPCs.

Seriously, at 76 kph with 4 JJs you get enough hops to clear cover and jumpsnipe, and you have enough mobility to stay at the edges of the engagement with the group.

If you want a skirmisher, you should look at running the 9S like this, this, or this.

I appreciate the suggestions. I won't go to jump sniping, but I can see what you mean. I guess I'll end up buying a 9S if I want to keep playing the chassis and go with the AC20/SRM6 build as it fits my play style best. I go the DS after reading a bunch of reviews about the better hero mechs and it seemed like I would enjoy the mech, but it appears I was wrong.

[Bud Crue]

Huh. I didn't think this was an unknown.

The Vic is bad, because PGI appears to want it that way.
They could have rescalled it to make its shoulders a bit more narrow and raise the arm mounts up a bit.
They could have -at any time in the last three years- fixed the tube counts (they just finally fixed this issue this month, or so the patch notes suggest).
They could have given it a jump jet lift bonus (or just make it so that jump jets on heavies and assaults weren't garbage).
There is all sorts of things they could have done other than just throw armor at it last November.
But they didn't.
They had the data showing it is an under performer. They chose to ignore that data for three years.
It is that simple: The Victor "sucks" (I'd say sucked because that armor they threw at is made a big difference imho) because PGI for a very long time wanted it that way.

I'm just happy they finally decided they wanted it to be less suck-y after all these years.

[Aggravated Assault Mech]

Low hardpoints
Too few hardpoints
Hardpoints split too evenly between weapon types
Several variants gimped by lower arm actuator
Broad torso, but almost always runs an XL

I think it can be said concisely that the Victor fundamentally suffers from two seperate issues that compound one another.

First, its hardpoints don't allow it to carry a tonnage-efficient loadout. You must build it around a large, heavy ballistics weapon, and there simply aren't enough missile or (especially) energy hardpoints to supplement that. To fit the Victor as a brawler, around the AC20, you must carry both SRMs and an AC20, and that simply isn't tonnage efficient or skill point efficient.

Secondly, it has very wide and unforgiving torso hitboxes. Combine this with kind of mediocre damage and the reliance on heavy ballistics and you must take an XL to both escape heavier, better armed assaults, and fit enough weapons and ammo to justify your tonnage.

Even in the best situation, you end up with a lightly armed assault that isn't fast enough to outrun heavies that carry more firepower, and is very easy to ST for a predictable XL kill.

The DS has a unique niche as a poptart, but is really completely outperformed by the Night Gyr. As a brawler you're better off running a splat Awesome that will be more durable, less ammo-reliant, and less of an obvious XL-check.

[TELEFORCE]

I wish 80-ton 'mechs were considered in the heavy MM queue instead of the assault MM queue. I feel they have more in common with 75-tonners than 85-tonners.

It's the same with how 40-tonners have more in common with 35-tonners than with 45-tonners.