101 replies to this topic

[Old-dirty B]

I will be honest, upfront i wasnt really looking forward to the skilltree but now that we have it i have to say tinkering with it, figuring out optimal paths and testing its effects has been interesting and entertaining. Build diversisty is greatly improved. Perhaps it needs some tuning and tweaking but so far job well done!

The global nerf on cooldown, heat efficiency and hit on agility (accel / decel, turn & twist) is however a big negative impact on the gameplay. Across the board all mechs basically became a lot more clumsy, sluggish and a lot less enjoyable to pilot.

Altough the skilltree has a good effect on mech customisation, the global nerf on a mech performance makes the game just plain out boring... Im not really enjoying MWO and its current gameplay at all!

Edited by B3R3ND, 21 May 2017 - 01:03 AM.

[TheLuc]

100% with you, now the forums are more entertaining than the game itself

[Dogstar]

B3R3ND, on 21 May 2017 - 01:00 AM, said:

The global nerf on cooldown, heat efficiency and hit on agility (accel / decel, turn & twist) is however a big negative impact on the gameplay. Across the board all mechs basically became a lot more clumsy, sluggish and a lot less enjoyable to pilot.

I totally disagree with you on this point. To me it feels like the game is much better with mechs being less agile overall and having to manage heat either by build or careful playing.

[Khobai]

The game feels inconsistent to me

You have some heavies that are more agile than lights

You have some lights that pilot like assaults

You can have two different assaults which have huge disparities in how agile they are

Its a damn mess.

[Weeny Machine]

B3R3ND, on 21 May 2017 - 01:00 AM, said:

I will be honest, upfront i wasnt really looking forward to the skilltree but now that we have it i have to say tinkering with it, figuring out optimal paths and testing its effects has been interesting and entertaining. Build diversisty is greatly improved. Perhaps it needs some tuning and tweaking but so far job well done!

The global nerf on cooldown, heat efficiency and hit on agility (accel / decel, turn & twist) is however a big negative impact on the gameplay. Across the board all mechs basically became a lot more clumsy, sluggish and a lot less enjoyable to pilot.

Altough the skilltree has a good effect on mech customisation, the global nerf on a mech performance makes the game just plain out boring... Im not really enjoying MWO and its current gameplay at all!

I disagree with you.

Heavies and assaults should be kind of sluggish. They have such a huge array of weapons and armour plus superior heat venting capability.

Lights and mediums should be agile.

As it stands heavies and most assaults still can easily track even light mechs. And light mechs still pop easily and quickly (in T1). Speccing in the survival tree doesn't help a light without armour quirks not at all. It gets a meagre amount of bonus armour despite the higher % per node while heavies and assault get more points.

The agility of lights and meds should a tad improved and the agilty of heavies a bit reduced. Yeah, I know you guys don't like to hear that but you should be a weapon-bristling, heavily armoured, heat dissipating fat ballerina, sorry.


As for the CD nerf. It takes some time getting used to it but I like it.

Khobai, on 21 May 2017 - 01:14 AM, said:

The game feels inconsistent to me

You have some heavies that are more agile than lights

You have some lights that pilot like assaults

You can have two different assaults which have huge disparities in how agile they are

Its a damn mess.

Totally right. I do not mind that there are exceptions within a class, e.g. a Dragon being more agile than a Maro. After all, the Dragon was a fast and agile mech according to lore but there should be limits.

And yes, quite a few lights feel sluggish and turn like a school bus even when you cut speed. Even the average light should have better turning values. Heck, the whole class is about evading fire and mobility.

Edited by Bush Hopper, 21 May 2017 - 01:34 AM.

[Zigmund Freud]

Khobai, on 21 May 2017 - 01:14 AM, said:

You have some heavies that are more agile than lights

You have some lights that pilot like assaults

Like what? (x2)

I'm one of people who kind of like the new gameplay. 100toners feels slugish, and it's ok, since 100t. Different agility for different mechs of same weight class is also ok for me. Said Banshee is faster than Atlas. It's a good thing, since Atlas has crazy def quirks, and Banshee's only pro is agility.
Lights feel same, but on the background of overral slowing down they feel lighter.

[Khobai]

Quote

Like what?

Like the arctic cheetah. Its a 30 ton mech but it pilots like a garbage truck.

Or the Summoner which is a 70 ton mech with the agility of a light

[Zigmund Freud]

Khobai, on 21 May 2017 - 01:40 AM, said:

Like the arctic cheetah. Its a 30 ton mech but it pilots like a garbage truck.

Ah, yea, I've read something about it in the patch notes: "for example 30t arctic cheetah will have the same agility as 30t urbanmech".

[Old-dirty B]

Bush Hopper, on 21 May 2017 - 01:30 AM, said:

I disagree with you.

Heavies and assaults should be kind of sluggish. They have such a huge array of weapons and armour plus superior heat venting capability.

Lights and mediums should be agile.

As it stands heavies and most assaults still can easily track even light mechs. And light mechs still pop easily and quickly (in T1). Speccing in the survival tree doesn't help a light without armour quirks not at all. It gets a meagre amount of bonus armour despite the higher % per node while heavies and assault get more points.

The agility of lights and meds should a tad improved and the agilty of heavies a bit reduced. Yeah, I know you guys don't like to hear that but you should be a weapon-bristling, heavily armoured, heat dissipating fat ballerina, sorry.


As for the CD nerf. It takes some time getting used to it but I like it.


Totally right. I do not mind that there are exceptions within a class, e.g. a Dragon being more agile than a Maro. After all, the Dragon was a fast and agile mech according to lore but there should be limits.

Im totally fine with the class didferences and agree what each class should be, its the total "slowing down" the game i dont like at all. I specifically started playing MWO because it had just the right twitchy-ness and sluggish-ness actoss the weight class board - sort of arena shooter witch mechs that i really liked, but that specific character is now gone...

Edited by B3R3ND, 21 May 2017 - 02:58 AM.

[Dogstar]

It isn't 'gone' it's just a bit different

[Shifty McSwift]

Khobai, on 21 May 2017 - 01:14 AM, said:

The game feels inconsistent to me

You have some heavies that are more agile than lights

You have some lights that pilot like assaults

You can have two different assaults which have huge disparities in how agile they are

Its a damn mess.

I honestly think the solution there is to find all the mechs that are overperforming like that and hit them with the nerf bat.

I don't mind at all that they want to make assault feel more like big slow heavies and the like, but I do mind when certain mechs are good enough to just completely ignore such definitions by virtue of their out of whack stats.

[sycocys]

To be honest it would have been better if they didn't put back in a way to reskill your mech back to arcade mode.

[Khobai]

Quote

Ah, yea, I've read something about it in the patch notes: "for example 30t arctic cheetah will have the same agility as 30t urbanmech".

neither the arctic cheetah nor urbanmech should have less agility than a 35t-45t mech. sadly they do.

the less a mech weighs the more agility it should have. 30t mechs shouldnt have garbage truck agility.

a little consistency isnt too much to ask for

Quote

I honestly think the solution there is to find all the mechs that are overperforming like that and hit them with the nerf bat.

well the summoner should be more agile than most 70 ton mechs. but it shouldnt be as agile as a light mech.

Edited by Khobai, 21 May 2017 - 03:59 AM.

[LordNothing]

just remember everyone gets the same nerfs. eventually someone will crack the recipe for op and use it to make a fool out of pgi. if no one figures out how to do this, then maybe they actually did something right for a change.

[Imperius]

The engine decoupling is the next worst design choice since 3rd person and group limits.

The skill tree is acceptable needs tweaking (the ammo node is a joke)

The engine decoupling is another nail into the coffin. Not saying the game will die but it definitely isn't going to help being in any new people!

The number one basic thing a person is supposed to be able to do in an FPS is shoot. If you can't even turn fast enough to hit a moving target to defend yourself then your game is failing at the the most basic level of being an FPS! I feel sorry for any new player who buys an assault for their first mech. Their life is going to suck!

[Bud Crue]

I hate it for these reasons:
PGI claimed for reasons for putting it in:
1 -increase mech and build diversity that are played
2 -improve player's ability to choose those mechs and builds
3 -provide a mechanism to transition from the 3 mech to single mech model
4 -drastically reduce quirks

See original PTS: https://mwomercs.com...c-test-session/


The revamp of the Skill Tree has been designed with a number of core principles:
• Empower players with the ability to customize their 'Mechs performance characteristics according to their own desires and goals.

• Promote greater build and 'Mech diversity on the battlefield by enabling broader control over specialized roles.

• Transition from a variant-wide Skill Tree to an individual 'Mech Skill Tree, allowing for duplicate versions of the same variant to serve different roles with different Skill configurations.


• Facilitate a drastic reduction of inherent 'Mech Quirks.

And yet, only one of these goals is achieved. 1 out of four aint bad for PGI but in any other realm of analysis it would be pretty indicative of a piss poor design.

Improved diversity and choice? Seriously? You provide an advancing percentage based system and expected it to somehow encourage folks not to take advantage of a mechs inherent features to min/max those percentages? Hey PGI! Ya know why there have been several threads about why the Cataphract and the Atlas and the Orion, etc. ought to take advantage of the Survival branch? Because you gave those mechs bonus armor and thus it behooves the player to...how did you put it in the Q&A: to build the mech in accordance with the puzzle defined by the quirks.

"Quirked ‘Mechs acting more as puzzles then avenues of personal customization. With often only loadouts that fully optimize around a ‘Mechs given quirks able to be considered in a “balanced” state, while loadouts which ignore, or do not care to customize into the very ridged quirks often massively underperforming loadouts that play exclusively to pre-canned quirks."

You identified this as a problem that the skills tree would fix! The skills tree however practically demands that one put the puzzle together as the quirks dictate! Why...WHY! Would any player willingly choose NOT to maximize those armor bonuses with the increased percentages that your system provides? Did you really think a player would think..."ya know what a Cataphract needs? A maxed SRM node path instead of that armor since its so week in the SRM area I will use the tree to improve it". Gessuz.

So there is 2 of the 4. As the the 3rd failure...now don't get me wrong here...I'm happy you blew it on the mechs I care about, but the fact that at some point in this system's roll out, when you decided NOT to nerf mechs nearly as much as you had threatened did it never occur to you that if we cant actually "drastically" reduce "overall" quirks with this system (this is something at least Russ realized in December since he was back pedaling away from the "quirks removed" mechcon presentation almost immediately on twitter) that maybe the "overall" system wasn't going to work?

Sigh.

At least we did make it to the 1 mech model. So I guess that's a rousing success given the history around here?

Edited by Bud Crue, 21 May 2017 - 04:50 AM.

[Zigmund Freud]

Imperius, on 21 May 2017 - 04:26 AM, said:

The number one basic thing a person is supposed to be able to do in an FPS is shoot. If you can't even turn fast enough to hit a moving target to defend yourself then your game is failing at the the most basic level of being an FPS! I feel sorry for any new player who buys an assault for their first mech. Their life is going to suck!

Assaults were being rekt by lights when cought alone since dawn of time. But, you know, it's easily avoided by not being alone. It's probably the first thing new players should learn. And I sincerely think it's good. Assaults have tonns of guns and armor, and they are supposed to be fat and slow. The fact that the biggest 100toner can be killed by light in 1:1 fight is also good for balance, and add more role for lights in this game.
So I really like this part of the patch. I would like to have even more default agility for all lights. Assaults, heavies and meds are in nearly perfect balance now.

[Juodas Varnas]

Zigmund Freud, on 21 May 2017 - 01:36 AM, said:

Like what? (x2)

Linebacker (65 tons) has higher agility than Panther, Firestarter, Raven and Puma (35 tonners).
70 ton Summoner is more agile than 45 ton Blackjack and Vindicator (and larger medium mechs).
An 80 ton Gargoyle is as agile as 50 ton Centurions, Crabs, Hunchbacks and Enforcers.
A 95 ton Executioner is as agile as a 60 ton Rifleman.

It is absolute utter garbage, is what it is.

Khobai, on 21 May 2017 - 03:55 AM, said:

neither the arctic cheetah nor urbanmech should have less agility than a 35t-45t mech. sadly they do.

Funnily enough, the Arctic Cheetah was BUFFED by the engine decoupling, by quite a lot.
In fact, out of ALL mechs in the game, Arctic Cheetah was improved the MOST relative to how it was pre-patch (at least according to the agility reference chart by McGral). And the Atlas was nerfed the most (which is something it really did not need)

Just another patch and another proof that PGI know absolutely NOTHING about the game.

Edited by Juodas Varnas, 21 May 2017 - 05:00 AM.

[Imperius]

Zigmund Freud, on 21 May 2017 - 04:49 AM, said:

Assaults were being rekt by lights when cought alone since dawn of time. But, you know, it's easily avoided by not being alone. It's probably the first thing new players should learn. And I sincerely think it's good. Assaults have tonns of guns and armor, and they are supposed to be fat and slow. The fact that the biggest 100toner can be killed by light in 1:1 fight is also good for balance, and add more role for lights in this game.
So I really like this part of the patch. I would like to have even more default agility for all lights. Assaults, heavies and meds are in nearly perfect balance now.

Where did I say the light isn't supposed to kill a assault? As it stands now lights aren't killing assaults (at least the direwolf in my case) with skill I'm not suggesting we should go super fast. I'm saying it's ******** people here think it's considered acceptable balance to take away the ability to aim and defend yourself!

Have you fought a javelin yet? That piece of **** takes more fire than a assault can!

The worst group of players minus a few are lights! They think their jobs are to be fast brawlers who rarely relay information! I'd rather they weren't on my team 90% of the time!

[Wyald Katt]

Imperius, on 21 May 2017 - 05:07 AM, said:

Have you fought a javelin yet? That piece of **** takes more fire than a assault can!

It has decent durability out of the mech bay, but I've gotten near insta-gibbed a few times. You know, stopping, not twisting, mashed potato.