89 replies to this topic

[Mcgral18]

Yes, but not as you describe

Constant FaceTime isn't ideal
1/3 cooldown
1/2 dam, heat

That's more the trade off you'd want. More DPS, but more spread damage
A reward for less range and greater FaceTime.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Mcgral18, on 30 May 2017 - 09:50 AM, said:

Yes, but not as you describe

Constant FaceTime isn't ideal
1/3 cooldown
1/2 dam, heat

That's more the trade off you'd want. More DPS, but more spread damage
A reward for less range and greater FaceTime.

Pretty much this.

[Ghogiel]

They'd need very significant buffs to make them useable, face time is extremely costly behaviour and to offset that against actual brawl weapons pulse staring would need to fry everything it looks at very quickly or the ability of dmg spread/shielding the other mech has would win most times.

Using dps dot weaps with face time to trade won't be ideal either, unless you can shred a mech who is peeking just enough to get dual gauss peeps off or 60dmg laser alphas off while they are twisting off dmg.

Spread sheet warriors would flip **** **** though because on paper those pulses would look OP af and be situational or look balanced and be total garbage. Same nerds are the ones that are probably scratching their head over possible lurm nerfs and adamant against CERLL buffing because they have PTSD from a meta that is 3 years into non existant.

[Y E O N N E]

Mcgral18, on 30 May 2017 - 09:50 AM, said:

Yes, but not as you describe

Constant FaceTime isn't ideal.

No it isn't, but consider pairing rapid fire MG-Pulse with ballistics, especially Rotaries and Ultras. The is even a place for it in a brawl, because putting constant damage on a target makes it difficult for him to torso twist smartly.

[Ryllen Kriel]

CuriousCabbitBlue, on 30 May 2017 - 09:44 AM, said:

"Aim for the flat-top!"(Target the Dire Wolf)

[R Valentine]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 30 May 2017 - 08:57 AM, said:

That hasn't always been the case, or did you miss the dakka meta before the Kodiak dropped? The only reason it has ever been PPFLD centric is because PGI has never understood how much DPS weapons need to overcome PPFLD.


Again, Gauss and PPC haven't always been king, well, PPC's haven't always been king. Before the rebalance, PPCs really weren't a thing and it was all lasers and Gauss.


Except that is less of an issue if you can push. The meta isn't really that sniper heavy currently, it is actually all about pushing and shoving damage down people's throats with a couple of overwatch mechs (generally Night Gyrs because they have solid DPS even against pushes).


Yep, you are correct, but one click ER lasers were practically better than everything in that game so that's not really saying much nor does that magically invalidate the idea.


What if the goal was to make standard lasers DPS oriented and leave pulse as is? The whole point is to prevent them from competing for the same role, not nerf good weapons.

You forgot the most important reason not to change pulse lasers. I just bought the Warhawk C with 4 cLPLs and fell in love with it. If you ruin that I will strike you down and all of your relatives.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Kiran Yagami, on 30 May 2017 - 10:45 AM, said:

You forgot the most important reason not to change pulse lasers. I just bought the Warhawk C with 4 cLPLs and fell in love with it. If you ruin that I will strike you down and all of your relatives.

I'm cool with pulse being burst oriented while standard lasers be more DPS oriented honestly, it is just MW4 set the precedent for pulse to be DPS oriented so people naturally gravitate towards them being DPS. So long as they do different things I don't really care which does which.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 30 May 2017 - 10:50 AM.

[Revis Volek]

Lily from animove, on 30 May 2017 - 07:33 AM, said:

2t for a medoum pulse, care to explain me how this is good for lights, even multiple short pulses is to much for many lights, so yeha lets make a niche weapon put it into a tiny niche of usability in which a tiny niche mechs are able to take them and then give them niche usability.

this is not how you deisng any porper working weapons ever. and lights and dps wepaons, wow, can't wait for it and destroy those little poor guys trying that out. lights are about circling in worst case and hitting your few shots in vital parts but surely not dps based wepaons.

Most light mechs have at least 10 tons to run around with 4-5 med pulses.


Its not really that crazy, i run a 65t mech (LBK) with 5 as well, WLF can bring the same payload but IS flavor.

[Coolant]

I would prefer lasers behave like they did in MW4:Mercs...instant damage instantly. But, MWO is using duration as a balance so I say they are fine.

[Ultimax]

I wouldn't want to see Pulse lasers changed outside of finding some way to improve the Medium class pulse lasers (which is mostly a range issue not long enough to be mid-range, not heat efficient to compete at short range with cSPLs)


Pulse lasers are the only class of lasers I actually enjoy using, the rest of them are mostly boring.

Edited by Ultimax, 30 May 2017 - 01:34 PM.

[Gwahlur]

Can someone explain what is meant by dps in this thread?

[FupDup]

Gwahlur, on 30 May 2017 - 03:50 PM, said:

Can someone explain what is meant by dps in this thread?

A weapon that has weaker upfront (alpha strike) damage but higher damage over time due to firing more rapidly.

An example of a DPS weapon would be an AC/5.

[Lily from animove]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 30 May 2017 - 07:55 AM, said:

What are you even talking about? Pulses are the goto weapon for any Clan light and are useful on IS lights (6 SPL Jenner made a return as has the 8 SPL Firestarter). MPLs are still one of the goto weapons for IS 35 ton lights (Wolfhound for example, or the old FS9-S build). The switch would make these do even more damage and allow the normal lasers that are crappy (SL, cERSL) to be buffed to fill the vacuum,


You have obviously never played the LCT-3S before the skill tree, the thing puked enough damage (it just couldn't sustain) that made it absolutely deadly for certain types of engagements (generally brawls). You apparently just don't understand the importance of DPS in different types of engagements.


Your first words here explain just how clueless you are about how to play lights since circling is how you get destroyed.


So basically larger versions of the smaller ER lasers........there is a reason the dynamic between standard lasers and pulse needs to change, and it is because of redundancy. Honestly I would even be cool with the roles being swapped with pulse being the accurate one hit weapons while standard lasers be DPS oriented, but something has to change.

aaand you completely ignored the point of the topic where pulses gonna be DPS wepaons, they are used currently because light with SPL' are kinda Pinpoint wepaons.

So care to eplain me how a DPS wepaon light would work? you eithe rhave to circle or stay behind the opponent which is not really possible unless the slowets assault. a DPS pulse light (and thats what the discussion was about) is not going to work. thats suicide.

you couldn't even follow the 3 post related discussion and isolated every post and its writing which emans you ignored half of the content about that dicsussion.

Edited by Lily from animove, 31 May 2017 - 01:31 AM.

[Shifty McSwift]

Uhmm, well I mean it's be nice to have a hold down fire weapon for energy, it could be assigned to pulse but I think pulse in the position of a high damage short burn time (but also hotter heavier and lower range) laser is pretty fine.

Personally I would prefer if all lasers (including pulse) got an increase in burn times generally, but at the same time keeping the numbers pretty standardised across the is/clan divide. Adding to that a cut off potential to firing lasers specifically, not pulse, if for example all lasers (non pulse) had a minimum 1.5 second burn duration but you had to hold the burn, letting go mid burn would set the cooldown to start immediately. In this way the bigger lasers in particular can have really high dps potential and tactical flexibility, whereas pulse take or keep that role of short range short(ish) burn that works well with twisting, but that functions to burn much hotter/quicker and less controllable.

[sycocys]

If you think low skill players have fits about LRMs - how are they going to deal with Black Knights? 3 LPL, 5 MPL + Coolshots. Twist - arm's gone and ST is stripped before you turn back. Then imagine that with a couple or few players that actually focus fire....

Probably worse when they have to face clan mechs that they couldn't st pop the xl on. Would be a real joy to open gates on Boreal or try to get into Grim Portico against an even barely competent team.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Lily from animove, on 31 May 2017 - 01:28 AM, said:

aaand you completely ignored the point of the topic where pulses gonna be DPS wepaons, they are used currently because light with SPL' are kinda Pinpoint wepaons.

And you ignored my point about how standard lasers should be buffed to fill the void of losing SPL.

Lily from animove, on 31 May 2017 - 01:28 AM, said:

So care to eplain me how a DPS wepaon light would work? you eithe rhave to circle or stay behind the opponent which is not really possible unless the slowets assault. a DPS pulse light (and thats what the discussion was about) is not going to work. thats suicide.

The same way the missile puking LCT-3S (it fired 4 SRM2s every ~1.14s) handled before the ST patch. You just run around being annoying to somebody always trying to juke their LoS while an engagement occurs that keeps them from being able to send extra people after you.

Lily from animove, on 31 May 2017 - 01:28 AM, said:

you couldn't even follow the 3 post related discussion and isolated every post and its writing which emans you ignored half of the content about that dicsussion.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 31 May 2017 - 07:05 AM.

[stealthraccoon]

If we need an energy machine gun why not just tweak the flamer? The only issue with pulse lasers I have is the fact both small and medium varieties are double the weight but the large is only a 40% increase. Either regular large lasers should be cooler or large pulse lasers should be hotter - c'mon even a PPC is almost 10 DMG for 10 heat, large pulse is 11 for 7, and darn near PPFL.

[metallio]

I think the main point is that a constant stream of damage would be used for different roles than everything else. Everyone discussing face time is missing this point. No, you wouldn't use them for face time brawling or poking. You'd use these when you really want to damage something specific and are having a hard time hitting it, just like the "to hit" bonus in TT. Lights dancing around you? Constant stream of damage will take out those legs far faster than praying you hit them when your cooldown is up and they happen to be in front of you.

Want to take out that deep red side torso? This guy's good at torso twisting, but if you only need to get a few points of damage through you hold down the trigger on those pulse lasers and hose the area...some of it gets through and takes out the location you wanted to kill.

It's not about doing the same thing as the current set of weapons, it's about doing something different.

What about lights that enjoy doing the dance in circles? Yeah, it can get you killed but if you can hold down the button and know for certain SOME damage is going to hit that target that you're moving so fast around that you're getting sick it'll be far easier to do the dance to not get killed while still damaging the target. No, it won't be as tight as small pulse lasers currently pack the damage in, but it'll change what you can do and still do damage.

That's the idea, that sometimes you'll want to bring a different type of weapon and sometimes you'll want to pack a hardpoint or two with that different weapon to help out situationally. It'd darn sure make some of those 9 E hardpoint mechs have something better to do than just boat. You could throw a few ER lasers in with pulse and switch back and forth between them depending on which was best for the moment. It wouldn't just be wasted tonnage because you can't manage the heat, it'd be a weapon type waiting for its moment.

I like the idea.

[Dogstar]

Personally I like the idea of lasers being something that you can hold down and burn with wether they are beam or pulse. Heat and damage over time, no cooldown, but potentially a lot of facetime so they have both advantages and disadvantages.

However there's no way that the MWO community in general would be willing to accommodate such a change.

[FupDup]

Dogstar, on 31 May 2017 - 08:32 AM, said:

Personally I like the idea of lasers being something that you can hold down and burn with wether they are beam or pulse. Heat and damage over time, no cooldown, but potentially a lot of facetime so they have both advantages and disadvantages.

However there's no way that the MWO community in general would be willing to accommodate such a change.

So kind of like a continuous "tractor beam" that never stops firing unless you overheat or let go of the trigger?

MW3 Pulse Lasers were almost like that, they just had a cap on how long the beam could keep going. I think a continuous beam could maybe work, but the weapon would need to have very good DPS/heat/range stats to make this facetime sacrifice worthwhile.