46 replies to this topic

[Katastrophy Kid]

Vellron2005, on 02 June 2017 - 12:49 AM, said:

Easy for all you guys to say "what you'd pay for"..

We get it, you've got cash.. great for you..

But the BEST thing about MWO is that its FREE TO PLAY.

Let's not let the rich kids spoil it for the rest of us, huh?

Paying for maps? Are you crazy?

Absolutely NOT a good idea..

Monthly subscriptions? Yeah, cut 70% of your player base away.. You know, 60$ a month is more than double what some of us pay for our Internet connections..

Or food.

So cut this P2W bullshait..

The only things that should be available for real $ other than the ones we already have are:

1) Custom (cosmetic) mech geometry

2) Customisable mech bays

3) Custom pilot skins

4) Custom achievement display cases

5) Brand name weapons and equipment (Like a brand name PPC that has some minor bonuses to how much XP or cbills you get)

6) 1 milion mech XP + 500 MC to make a mech a "Legendary mech" with a 25% cbill boost

Well I'd like to begin by pointing out that I hate Pay to Win games and I never want to see mechwarrior online go that route and a subscrption would probably be way to divisive, but maybe not, it would depend on who you asked. And I don't mean pay for maps either, My main point is that I'd like to see more content in the form of maps. If buying mech packs funds the development of new maps and gets me new mechs, I'd be more inclined to spend my very limited funds, I'm not rich, hell I'm not even middle class, I'm Po as F'k.

Last point, I have mentioned that all Trick My Mech upgrades be availabe for purchase with In Game currency to avoid pay to win and keep that Grind down to a minimum, this aint an Alice in Chains concert.

Edited by Katastrophe Kid, 02 June 2017 - 12:30 PM.

[Nesutizale]

Someone here talked about Russ and the others beeing dreamers too when they started MWO. I realy would like to hear more about their dreams and what is still on hold, worked on or got dropped and for what reasons.
I remember a pretty old vid about FW that was full of awesome ideas and how little made it into the game...sadly.

I know its not normal for a company to talk about their plans and failures but I think MWO could use a much more open talk about what the plans for the future are, what technical issues they are faceing, how things are financial.
I think just from the fact that MWO survived till now with content that would stop any other game from beeing worked on is a testament to the dedicated fanbase.
So PGI kinda owns it to their fans to open up an all the good and bad.

When we know what the limites are we might come up with better ideas then our random guessing and wishlists will produce.
Sure a lot of junk will still be between it but from the roundtables and some posts here I have the impressions that the community has some people with very good ideas that just need to be worked out more in detail but this can only be done when those people know the limits of what can be done.

PGI is allready using a heavily modified Cryengine, from what I know, to somehow make it work with Mechcombat at all.
CIG has reworked the Cryengine/Lumberyard to such an extend that it can be called a complete new engine.
So we can guess that what can be done with MWO must be somewhere between the Crysis games, MWO and StarCitizen...but how far in between?
Is there any groundwork in the code allready to get certain features done? What are they? Can PGI do some things themself or do they need new people?

MW5 and the change to a new engine isn't even fixed for me. From what I remember they said that the demo they have shown was a test they presented because they where surprised themself how easy it was to put it together.
That still dosn't mean that they won't run into the same problems at some poinst as with MWO !

How big can maps be in UE4? If they aren't any bigger then MWO its not realy an improvement.
What about a economey? UE4 might be a good engine to create a shooter but what about the managment of your unit? They ahve a groundwork layed out with MWO...so what will be easier to do? Create a new system in UE or expand the existing of MWO?

TL:DR
We need to know more, much more, about PGIs capabilities: monetary, programming, designteam, etc and what the limits of the engine are to make good suggestions of how to improve this game.

[Katastrophy Kid]

I was quite aware that I was letting my imagination run wild this afternoon and that many of my ideas were very likely far beyond the capabilities of the current platform. I just took a look at what I could see this games becoming if there were no limits and shared it with the hope that those who do the work and know the limits would see what was infact accomplishable and maybe do some dreaming of their own.

If persistent, unit owned, attackable bases and 500sq kilometer city maps aren't compatible with current tech then slap a raincheck on those ideas for a later date and/or rendition and start with something doable. I bet 16v16 and 20v20 maps arn't out of the question, but I could be wrong.

Edited by Katastrophe Kid, 02 June 2017 - 03:07 AM.

[Joshua Obrien]

Natred, on 01 June 2017 - 12:12 PM, said:

Mechwarrior is not clash of clans bud. Lol if it was anything like your saying i would move onto something completely different.

Good thing this isn't a mechwarrior game. It's more of a stompy bots arena shooter than it is mechwarrior.

[Nesutizale]

Is MWO a MechWarrior game? No its called MechWarrior Online, its not a singleplayer game.

@KatastrophKid
I didn't meant it as a critic about letting your ideas run wild, if you got that impression. Just wanted to note that we could use some more information to get from "dream" to "doable" and what problems I see on the way.

I also have the wild dream that PGI would nock at CIGs door and they would come to an agreement to share knowledge and then PGI would create the Battletech equivialent to StarCitizen...and then I would have to quite my job, win the lottery and clone myself because I can definitly not be in 3 worlds at the same time.....BattleStarCitizenTech....*drools in keyboard*

[Katastrophy Kid]

Nesutizale, on 02 June 2017 - 07:39 AM, said:

Is MWO a MechWarrior game? No its called MechWarrior Online, its not a singleplayer game.

@KatastrophKid
I didn't meant it as a critic about letting your ideas run wild, if you got that impression. Just wanted to note that we could use some more information to get from "dream" to "doable" and what problems I see on the way.

I also have the wild dream that PGI would nock at CIGs door and they would come to an agreement to share knowledge and then PGI would create the Battletech equivialent to StarCitizen...and then I would have to quite my job, win the lottery and clone myself because I can definitly not be in 3 worlds at the same time.....BattleStarCitizenTech....*drools in keyboard*

Its like Peiper said, mech packs make PGI money, But, its Content and Meaning that keep up playing, and its content and meaning that are noticeably missing right now. Maybe a persistent MMO style platform is way off in the future and maybe epic 64v64 battles on ginormous maps are beyond what the servers can handle at the moment, but damn, Lets encourage the Devs to start adding more multidimensional layers that build on what they have already achieved in these directions.

BattleStarCitizenTech!!! F'k Yea!!!

A Bake Sale for Servers and Maps!!!

https://mwomercs.com...ey-for-servers/

Edited by Katastrophe Kid, 02 June 2017 - 11:05 AM.

[Peiper]

Katastrophe Kid, on 02 June 2017 - 08:38 AM, said:

A Bake Sale for Servers and Maps!!!

https://mwomercs.com...ey-for-servers/

I would be happy to buy many pies at the bake sale to buy/rent more assets for PGI to work with, as long as I can earn the money in game.

Nesutizale, on 02 June 2017 - 02:28 AM, said:

Someone here talked about Russ and the others beeing dreamers too when they started MWO. I realy would like to hear more about their dreams and what is still on hold, worked on or got dropped and for what reasons.

I know its not normal for a company to talk about their plans and failures but I think MWO could use a much more open talk about what the plans for the future are, what technical issues they are faceing, how things are financial.

So PGI kinda owns it to their fans to open up an all the good and bad.

When we know what the limites are we might come up with better ideas then our random guessing and wishlists will produce.
Sure a lot of junk will still be between it but from the roundtables and some posts here I have the impressions that the community has some people with very good ideas that just need to be worked out more in detail but this can only be done when those people know the limits of what can be done.

Is there any groundwork in the code allready to get certain features done? What are they? Can PGI do some things themself or do they need new people?

TL:DR
We need to know more, much more, about PGIs capabilities: monetary, programming, designteam, etc and what the limits of the engine are to make good suggestions of how to improve this game.

Quoted (and abridged) for great justice!

[Katastrophy Kid]

With said resources you could conceivably:

Have a 16 vs 16 match on a map twice the size of Polar with Opposing Bases that have Hangers as re-spawn points instead of dropships. The match doesn't end until you destroy the opposing team's base or every mech in your drop deck is destroyed. Increase the number of mechs in the drop decks to 6, 8, 10, 12, even 24! Add resource points with a set amount of c-bills that can be earned from them (in other words, they can be sucked dry,) scatter a few around and fight over the loot before wrecking each others faces and bases.

https://mwomercs.com...game-mode-idea/

Edited by Katastrophe Kid, 02 June 2017 - 05:15 PM.

[Bud Crue]

Nesutizale, on 02 June 2017 - 02:28 AM, said:

Someone here talked about Russ and the others beeing dreamers too when they started MWO. I realy would like to hear more about their dreams and what is still on hold, worked on or got dropped and for what reasons.

http://www.pcgamer.c...ves-the-series/
http://www.pcgamer.c...-mechwarrior/2/

These two old PCgamer interviews kinda hint at their hopes and dreams. To give credit where credit is due, they have achieved a lot of those ideals. The pillars and role warfare may be a myth in this game, not to mention the utter lack of "pilot skills" (vs mech based "skills") but a lot of the other stuff they talked about back then is now (finally) in the game. There is another interview (I think from 2011) where they (Bryan and Russ) also go into detail about player created bases where one could walk around and look at their mechs, and socialize with unit mates but I can't find that one atm.

[FireStoat]

Watching the Harebrained Schemes video Q&A's about their Battletech game, the devs kept repeating that one of the sharpest limitations they have to work with is narrowing down the Scope of a game's features and then making them real. Tons of great ideas that their staff members have as well as even more ideas tossed out by fans have been looked upon and from what I was seeing, it made them discouraged more than excited. The reality of game development and getting a focused product done requires sacrifices.

On the surface I look on this game and compare it often with League of Legends in that the game's Scope is pretty limited in what players can do, and I constantly wish it could have been expanded upon. The amount of work hours required to develop and test a far more 'fleshed out' game environment versus profit generated is a harsh reality. Oddly enough though... I think when PGI launches Mechwarrior 5, which will include the full set of assets of mechs + tanks + planes developed between PGI and Harebrained, I think it will be fans and modders that finally bring something huge to the table, using it as a base.

[Katastrophy Kid]

Bud Crue, on 02 June 2017 - 05:21 PM, said:

http://www.pcgamer.c...ves-the-series/
http://www.pcgamer.c...-mechwarrior/2/

These two old PCgamer interviews kinda hint at their hopes and dreams. To give credit where credit is due, they have achieved a lot of those ideals. The pillars and role warfare may be a myth in this game, not to mention the utter lack of "pilot skills" (vs mech based "skills") but a lot of the other stuff they talked about back then is now (finally) in the game. There is another interview (I think from 2011) where they (Bryan and Russ) also go into detail about player created bases where one could walk around and look at their mechs, and socialize with unit mates but I can't find that one atm.

I do recognize that there has been a lot of great work done to this game by the Devs, many of my old posts express this.

I Love This Game!!!

And I want it to keep getting more lovable.

[Bud Crue]

Katastrophe Kid, on 02 June 2017 - 05:34 PM, said:

I do recognize that there has been a lot of great work done to this game by the Devs, many of my old posts express this.

I Love This Game!!!

And I want it to keep getting more lovable.

And I.

I just wish they would be more proactive, throw out a vison statement for various topics and then follow through consistently with said statements. They may have hopes and dreams for the game and its immediate future but much like Russ's assertion that 2017 would be a year about developing CW (see second round table) I'll bet a mech pack that they fail to follow thru on them (where are all the "frequent" IS v IS and Clan v CLan weekend events that were promised...its f***ing JUNE!). So who really knows what they plan or what they hope for? They obviously don't know.

As it is, they shoot themselves in the foot more often than they instill excitement or merely positive vibes in the player base. That just makes me sad every time. I wish I could help them, but hey their pres has stated that he isn't interested in our ideas. Alas, ego is a *****. Then again, maybe its just that the Dartboard of balance has a "what part of the community can we piss off and/or alienate this month" mini game attached to it; and they REALLY like playing that minigame. They need to stop playing darts and skip the minigame too and instead just talk to the community.

They need to ask the top players what is good and why? They need to pay for consumer research groups to try and then analyze what new players think of the NPE...and then do something to make it better. They need to look at their own World Championship and ask the participants "why almost all clan mechs" (loved the Spiders and Grasshopper too)? Why just those mechs?

Most of all, they just need to play their own game. They need to play Comp. CW, Group Que and QP and they need to do it a lot. Otherwise all their "hopes and dreams" for their own game is based on nothing more than a guess and not an educated one.

Sorry for the diatribe. But this game represents a link to my childhood and I really do love it. I just wish PGI would stop trying so very hard to make me indifferent or disgusted with it.

[Katastrophy Kid]

Bud Crue, on 02 June 2017 - 05:52 PM, said:

And I.

I just wish they would be more proactive, throw out a vison statement for various topics and then follow through consistently with said statements. They may have hopes and dreams for the game and its immediate future but much like Russ's assertion that 2017 would be a year about developing CW (see second round table) I'll bet a mech pack that they fail to follow thru on them (where are all the "frequent" IS v IS and Clan v CLan weekend events that were promised...its f***ing JUNE!). So who really knows what they plan or what they hope for? They obviously don't know.

As it is, they shoot themselves in the foot more often than they instill excitement or merely positive vibes in the player base. That just makes me sad every time. I wish I could help them, but hey their pres has stated that he isn't interested in our ideas. Alas, ego is a *****. Then again, maybe its just that the Dartboard of balance has a "what part of the community can we piss off and/or alienate this month" mini game attached to it; and they REALLY like playing that minigame. They need to stop playing darts and skip the minigame too and instead just talk to the community.

They need to ask the top players what is good and why? They need to pay for consumer research groups to try and then analyze what new players think of the NPE...and then do something to make it better. They need to look at their own World Championship and ask the participants "why almost all clan mechs" (loved the Spiders and Grasshopper too)? Why just those mechs?

Most of all, they just need to play their own game. They need to play Comp. CW, Group Que and QP and they need to do it a lot. Otherwise all their "hopes and dreams" for their own game is based on nothing more than a guess and not an educated one.

Sorry for the diatribe. But this game represents a link to my childhood and I really do love it. I just wish PGI would stop trying so very hard to make me indifferent or disgusted with it.

Damn, you're killing me smalls... but your on point on every point. I'm struggling with indifference to the game myself, but, I love it, so, here I am on the forums trying to breath some life to it and feeling like I'm not getting heard. Its disheartening to hear you say that their pres stated that he isn't interested in our ideas.

[Anjian]

You can decrease graphics, server and network load requirements by using the following:

Slower mechs. It makes movement prediction for the mech easier (prediction is where the server anticipates where your mech is going, and this compensates for lag). Fast moving things require a higher rate of update, aka poll sync, which imposes greater load on network traffic and on the servers updating your location. If you have a slow rate of update with fast moving mechs, the mech is going to be desynched from the server, meaning your mech's position on the client and your mech's position on the server are different, and that leads to a lot of play issues.

Higher punch but lower rates of fire. Achieving the same DPS with less strokes, but bigger punches. That reduces the number of hit box collisions being processed, less computation for shell and missile trajectories, and this also reduces network load.

Cleaner looking maps. The maps in MWO are pretty inefficient. High clutter not only mars visibility and lowers visual appeal, but they also cause lag. Rather than have a lot of junk and obstructions on the map, its better to have clean looking maps, with great visibility and rationed strategically placed obstructions. Filters like clouds and fog also reduce frame rates.

Edited by Anjian, 02 June 2017 - 07:02 PM.

[Katastrophy Kid]

Anjian, on 02 June 2017 - 06:55 PM, said:

You can decrease graphics, server and network load requirements by using the following:

Slower mechs. It makes movement prediction for the mech easier (prediction is where the server anticipates where your mech is going, and this compensates for lag). Fast moving things require a higher rate of update, aka poll sync, which imposes greater load on network traffic and on the servers updating your location. If you have a slow rate of update with fast moving mechs, the mech is going to be desynched from the server, meaning your mech's position on the client and your mech's position on the server are different, and that leads to a lot of play issues.

Higher punch but lower rates of fire. Achieving the same DPS with less strokes, but bigger punches. That reduces the number of hit box collisions being processed, less computation for shell and missile trajectories, and this also reduces network load.

Cleaner looking maps. The maps in MWO are pretty inefficient. High clutter not only mars visibility and lowers visual appeal, but they also cause lag. Rather than have a lot of junk and obstructions on the map, its better to have clean looking maps, with great visibility and rationed strategically placed obstructions. Filters like clouds and fog also reduce frame rates.

Excellent Constructive Feedback

[Jiang Wei]

Its not worth it for them to continue developing this game on this engine. Not when they plan to port the game to the unreal 4 engine. Your idea is terrible anyway. I do not want a mechwarrior MMORPG. At least not by this developer.

Edited by Jiang Wei, 02 June 2017 - 08:05 PM.

[Anjian]

Also when it comes to servers, before people put a rack on a room and that's it. Then we come to renting space on datacenters, which is the most common now. The next step is using Cloud infrastructure like Amazon AWS, Microsoft Azure and Google GCP.

Pokemon Go for instance, is a game that runs using the Google Cloud. The thing about using a cloud infrastructure is that you can upscale and descale quickly, and regionalization will be transparent. There is no regional servers since in essence it treats the player base as a single global entity.

[Bud Crue]

Katastrophe Kid, on 02 June 2017 - 06:03 PM, said:

Damn, you're killing me smalls... but your on point on every point. I'm struggling with indifference to the game myself, but, I love it, so, here I am on the forums trying to breath some life to it and feeling like I'm not getting heard. Its disheartening to hear you say that their pres stated that he isn't interested in our ideas.

April 2016 townhall. To paraphrase: People should stop telling us how to make the game better. We know best. But for me (Russ/PGI) there would be no game. People should say thank you for me making this game.

[Anjian]

And so yes, basically if the franchise needs to go forward. I am saying the franchise needs to go forward. Not the game. This game still has room for content but its creative potential has reached its limits.

A Battletech MMORPG needs to be an entirely new game built from the ground up, though its possible to reuse, more economical even, the mech models from MWO.

A few things need to be done.

Microsoft needs to sell the digital licenses to someone more deserving. They have no reason to keep it and they have thousands of other problems and priorities to focus on.

You need another development studio. Certainly one with more coding resources and skill, certainly one with better and more experienced creative direction. If you want an RPG, you better find a studio that has done RPGs. You better find a studio that sits on a lot of coding talent in terms of its location, like the UK, Korea, China, or Russia. Vancouver is an amazing and beautiful city, but its not a major tech capital. Its best known gaming studio is Relic Entertainment, which is known for Homeworld and Dawn of War RTS games.

You, the players, better get used to more aggressive F2P monetization, because without the mucho moolah that is needed, you won't get the game off the starting gate, much less maintain and add content to it.

[Katastrophy Kid]

I hope a Battletech MMORPG is developed in the future.