31 replies to this topic

[Katastrophy Kid]

Have a Bake Sale for Servers and Maps, Put MC and stuff on Sale over a Weekend or so with the Promise that the money would go toward: Better Servers for the Game so We Can Maybe Move towards the 64 vs 64 Matches so many of us Dream of. I'd open my wallet for that. Do the sale telethon style, let us see what the estimate for the expense is and what improved servers could do for the game and let us monitor your progress towards that financial goal. Move towards 16 vs 16 and bigger maps to start. If servers aren't the problem then what is? Development time and Man Power? Let us know! Because a lot of us want:

Bigger Battles!!!
https://mwomercs.com...81-big-battles/

If you're reading this and it is something you'd be wiling to back, this Idea of Bigger Battles, then please leave your thoughts below.
Please Comment

Edited by Katastrophe Kid, 02 June 2017 - 01:19 PM.

[Nesutizale]

I don't think that the Server itself is the problem preventing 64v64 battles.
When the last report from StarCitizen is any indication its how the original code handles server tasks. CIGs solution was to develop a complete new way of how data is streamed between servers and clients to allow "entire" planets to be playable without pause-screens.

So I think PGI might allready have a server that is well capable to support 64v64 players, computing power wise but the bad base code from its Cryengine origin prevents it to use its full capabilitys.
There also might be other problems on how mechs are "build" in MWO. IIRC they are multiple parts attached to the torso and the engine has to calculate everything from "where is the torso" to "now that I have that, where are the arms, legs and so on at that time". Makeing it very ineffective and CPU intesive.
At least that is a problem StarCitizen also ancounered when they first added turrets to their ships that could be manned by another player...to make things worse.
They went with droping the old code and build a new system from the ground up. PGI dosn't seam to be able to do this...either for the lack of knowledge, people or money or a bit of everything.

There is also another problem with buying a server. First of all you also have to maintain it yourself, adding costs for the guy who has to do it.
Then you have to keep the server up to date with the current tech, so future investments into it must be covered. Then there are running costs. A Server needs power and cooling, sucking even more power and with that money out of you.
Last but not least you will need several servers all over the world to reduce PING and make the game even playable ffor some countries.
(CIG had a good episode of the reasons why they went with Lumberyard instead of building their own serverstructure)

So in the end, renting servers according to the trafic you have will be easier and more cost effective than owning a serverfarm yourself.

The other way would be to allow players to setup their own servers so you won't have any costs, except for a main server that all other playerbased servers have to send their data to for varyfication and you can't be bothered with "why the ping is so low".
Also giveing players the option to setup their own rules of for their servers would be nice as you could say "just stockmechs here" or "only Clan" ... stuff like that.

[ArmageddonKnight]

64 vs 64 is a pipe dream.

Do u have any idea how much damage would be on the field, no mech would last more than 5 seconds.

hell its bad enough already with 12v12, turn a corner and bam, alpha strike x 3 ..dead.

[Nesutizale]

64x64 can work when the map is big enough or when you have respawns or some different gamemodes.
I think first and foremost its a technical problem.

[Vxheous]

Nesutizale, on 02 June 2017 - 12:46 PM, said:

64x64 can work when the map is big enough or when you have respawns or some different gamemodes.
I think first and foremost its a technical problem.

Cryengine problem

[Katastrophy Kid]

ArmageddonKnight, on 02 June 2017 - 12:25 PM, said:

64 vs 64 is a pipe dream.

Do u have any idea how much damage would be on the field, no mech would last more than 5 seconds.

hell its bad enough already with 12v12, turn a corner and bam, alpha strike x 3 ..dead.

64 vs 64 with a 12 mech drop deck!

[Katastrophy Kid]

Vxheous Kerensky, on 02 June 2017 - 12:49 PM, said:

Cryengine problem

CE may be a problem, but the devs of Star Citizen are working on solving these problems. Open some lines of communication and see if some collaboration is possible.

Take baby steps toward 64 vs 64, start with better servers and up the ante to 16 vs 16 and 6 mechs in a dropship on much bigger maps.

Edited by Katastrophe Kid, 02 June 2017 - 01:07 PM.

[Nesutizale]

I would like to see PGI, beside asking for help, to concentrate more on one aspect and flesh that one out to the fullest.
Currently it seams like, with the new design guy, they are finaly focusing more on balance as their first priority.

[Katastrophy Kid]

Nesutizale, on 02 June 2017 - 01:14 PM, said:

I would like to see PGI, beside asking for help, to concentrate more on one aspect and flesh that one out to the fullest.
Currently it seams like, with the new design guy, they are finaly focusing more on balance as their first priority.

I agree that Ironing out the Kinks should be a top priority. But, as you and I and many others have stated, there is a glaring problem with MWO right now, and it is a lack of Fresh Meaningful Content. MWO is starting to feel stale.

Edited by Katastrophe Kid, 02 June 2017 - 01:45 PM.

[Katastrophy Kid]

I'd also like to Point out that buying servers is cheaper in the long run than renting them.

[sycocys]

Can you imagine how awesome the game will be when it devolves into a 64 mech LPL/Guass/PPC deathball all lighting up 1 mech at a time?

[Tier5 Kerensky]

A man can dream...

[Katastrophy Kid]

sycocys, on 02 June 2017 - 02:18 PM, said:

Can you imagine how awesome the game will be when it devolves into a 64 mech LPL/Guass/PPC deathball all lighting up 1 mech at a time?

OMG the explosions! lol

Teer Kerensky, on 02 June 2017 - 02:22 PM, said:

A man can dream...

Hopefully these dreams start to come true, in small increments its doable.

A Journey of a Thousand Miles, and blah blah blah...

Edited by Katastrophe Kid, 02 June 2017 - 02:30 PM.

[ArmageddonKnight]

Biggest problem with what yall sugesting is that this game is not running a subscription bassed buisness model, nor are the developers big enough to put such work (money) into a game like this without income from other games.

During devlopment, alpha and beta , there was plenty of fleshing out, and technical enhancement.

Since going live however the vast majority of work has been on additions to the game, not refinement. becouse additions bring in more people, certain addtions can be sold via not so micro micro-transactions. They make the money that way, and the only way to keep making money is to spend money on more 'stuff'., not improving whats already there.

look at some of the bugs that are STILL present in the game.
most notibly, visual bugs.

Texture & terrain poping. Not just a visual nasty and somewhat immersion breaking, but also affects gameplay.
How many of u have been hit by invisible mechs becouse from you point of view that mound in the distance covers a mech completly, but to them becouse they are right next to it, the terrain has 'popped' into a different shape allow them to see you.

How about the game's scale. Ever noticed how the game doesnt exactly feel like ur walking around in big stompy robots like the 'original' teaser trailer for MWO. Thats becouse 'mechs' in this game, for all intents and purposes are the size of 'people' in cryengine.
Atleats thats what it looks like. take a look at the vehcles on the ground, they look like hotwheels toys, alot of the buildings look like simple blocks with some minor details thrown on. The fine details in the game are not fine enough to portray scale.
Look at the ground textures, then realise the suposed size of ur mech and what size those textures must be compared to a person. You'll realise that in some areas you must be walking over large areas of boulder fields,even though said textures are rather flat (with the exception of some textres that use tessolation).

Environmental object hit boxes.
how many times have you tried to fire from behind cover, or aroudn a corner or past an object only for ur rounds/weapons to hit an invisible object. This is becouse the hit boxes of the object are not refined enough to the objects shape.

Sound bugs. Ever tried rapid fireing weapons, or just shooting many weapons at once, its somtimes hard to see and hear but the visual weapon effects , explosions, muzzle flashes etc, dont match up to what you hear. Thats becouse for what ever reason PGI have not fixed an issue with the sound engine that limits the number of effects played at once and within a given time period.

How about getting stuck on terrian. this wasnt so much a problem in beta, though it was still there at times, due to the fact you could hill climb, but now, with inclines affecting mech movment, much smaller things can cause a mech to get stuck.

The UI, its had work done on it sure. But its still rudamentry, and rather simplistic. For a mech sim, the ingame UI isnt very sim like. Its plastered on the screen like some FPS shooter, rather than being present on actual ingame monitors and displays like games such as Elite:Dangerous have.

Bassicaly what im saying is, dont hold ur breath. Major refinment and redo's of content already present in the game, including the game engine, will likely be few ar far between for the remaining lifespan of this game, that includes things like 64 v 64 games modes that require more powerfull servers.

Edited by ArmageddonKnight, 02 June 2017 - 02:44 PM.

[Nesutizale]

That is basicly why I said that it might be good to get help from someone who used the same engine as a starting point. Maybe they found a solution to the many bugs they have. That should be more cost efficient and faster then trying to do this on their own and what as we can see dosn't work very well.

Its so sad to see the current state of the game as one can see that the basic stuff is there to make it a good game but PGI seams to be stuck in between two steps of getting the bugs out but at the same time keeping the money comming in.

If the team at PGI is still so entusiastic as it looks like in old vids it must be realy frusttrating for them not beeing able to do more.

[Katastrophy Kid]

Well, If more content isn't in the works then this game may die from getting too stale. I still have hope though.

Nesutizale, on 02 June 2017 - 02:50 PM, said:

That is basicly why I said that it might be good to get help from someone who used the same engine as a starting point. Maybe they found a solution to the many bugs they have. That should be more cost efficient and faster then trying to do this on their own and what as we can see dosn't work very well.

Its so sad to see the current state of the game as one can see that the basic stuff is there to make it a good game but PGI seams to be stuck in between two steps of getting the bugs out but at the same time keeping the money comming in.

If the team at PGI is still so entusiastic as it looks like in old vids it must be realy frusttrating for them not beeing able to do more.

Agreed.

[jjm1]

Nesutizale, on 02 June 2017 - 12:16 PM, said:

I don't think that the Server itself is the problem preventing 64v64 battles.
When the last report from StarCitizen is any indication its how the original code handles server tasks. CIGs solution was to develop a complete new way of how data is streamed between servers and clients to allow "entire" planets to be playable without pause-screens.

So I think PGI might allready have a server that is well capable to support 64v64 players, computing power wise but the bad base code from its Cryengine origin prevents it to use its full capabilitys.
There also might be other problems on how mechs are "build" in MWO. IIRC they are multiple parts attached to the torso and the engine has to calculate everything from "where is the torso" to "now that I have that, where are the arms, legs and so on at that time". Makeing it very ineffective and CPU intesive.
At least that is a problem StarCitizen also ancounered when they first added turrets to their ships that could be manned by another player...to make things worse.
They went with droping the old code and build a new system from the ground up. PGI dosn't seam to be able to do this...either for the lack of knowledge, people or money or a bit of everything.

There is also another problem with buying a server. First of all you also have to maintain it yourself, adding costs for the guy who has to do it.
Then you have to keep the server up to date with the current tech, so future investments into it must be covered. Then there are running costs. A Server needs power and cooling, sucking even more power and with that money out of you.
Last but not least you will need several servers all over the world to reduce PING and make the game even playable ffor some countries.
(CIG had a good episode of the reasons why they went with Lumberyard instead of building their own serverstructure)

So in the end, renting servers according to the trafic you have will be easier and more cost effective than owning a serverfarm yourself.

The other way would be to allow players to setup their own servers so you won't have any costs, except for a main server that all other playerbased servers have to send their data to for varyfication and you can't be bothered with "why the ping is so low".
Also giveing players the option to setup their own rules of for their servers would be nice as you could say "just stockmechs here" or "only Clan" ... stuff like that.

Star citizen is 1000% more complex MMO with 1000000% the expected player load.

PGI can just do what anyone else would do and rent regional AWS servers to run their instances on.

[Katastrophy Kid]

How about a 16 vs 16 match on a map twice the size of Polar with Opposing Bases that have Hangers as re-spawn points instead of dropships. The match doesn't end until you destroy the opposing team's base or every mech in your drop deck is destroyed. Increase the number of mechs in the drop decks to 6, 8, 10, 12, even 24! Add resource points with a set amount of c-bills that can be earned from them (in other words, they can be sucked dry,) scatter a few around and fight over the loot before wrecking each others faces and bases.

https://mwomercs.com...game-mode-idea/

Edited by Katastrophe Kid, 02 June 2017 - 05:12 PM.

[AlexEss]

64 v 64....

So not only would we need new tech to stop ther mathches devolving in to a slideshow...

We would need 4... 5... new maps designed for said insanity... And a entire new set of balance fixes for this very game mode.

Aint no bakesale going to cover that amount of work.... that is a expansion sized amount of work.

[Katastrophy Kid]

AlexEss, on 02 June 2017 - 05:58 PM, said:

64 v 64....

So not only would we need new tech to stop ther mathches devolving in to a slideshow...

We would need 4... 5... new maps designed for said insanity... And a entire new set of balance fixes for this very game mode.

Aint no bakesale going to cover that amount of work.... that is a expansion sized amount of work.

Wouldn't it be worth it?