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Whining Is Good, And Why This Game Upsets Me


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#21 Scyther

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Posted 04 June 2017 - 04:13 AM

3,520 yd = 2 miles. A yard is roughly = to 0.9 meter. 4 seconds travel time for a sniper bullet could cover 2 miles (ish), as they slow down steadily after leaving the barrel.

However nobody is making/has made sniper shots at that range (that is more tank gun range). Longest sniper shots have been in the mile and a half range, still about a 4 second bullet travel time due to decreasing speed.

Edited by MadBadger, 04 June 2017 - 04:18 AM.


#22 Ade the Rare

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Posted 04 June 2017 - 04:19 AM

1600 yds a mile, so 3200 yds

#23 razenWing

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Posted 04 June 2017 - 04:38 AM

View PostMadBadger, on 04 June 2017 - 04:13 AM, said:

3,520 yd = 2 miles. A yard is roughly = to 0.9 meter. 4 seconds travel time for a sniper bullet could cover 2 miles (ish), as they slow down steadily after leaving the barrel.

However nobody is making/has made sniper shots at that range (that is more tank gun range). Longest sniper shots have been in the mile and a half range, still about a 4 second bullet travel time due to decreasing speed.


I admit when I wrote the original thing I don't remember the number exactly right. I just remember that British sniper with the long shot kill record in Afghanistan saying something along the line of 4 second bullets travel time.

#24 Nesutizale

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Posted 04 June 2017 - 05:23 AM

My two cents about Bt and realism

- Lasers might hit the moment you fire but would be brawling weapons except you pump in a real lot of energie.

- ACs would fire at far greater distances and fire a lot faster. I once digged up todays autocannons and BT caliber sizes. Judging from that AC2 and AC5 would fire like machineguns, AC10 would fire at the current AC2/5 speed and only the AC20 would be "slower" as in firing only every 3 seconds.

- PPC are particle accelerators, how they would behave? Well best ask someone at cern to know how it would work at best. What I could imagne and what has a referance in BT is that it would be fireing superheated plasmabolds.
In that case it would be a brawling weapon too. Short range but very high damage.

- Gauss...well we kinda have the first prototypes and while I don't know if the projectile speed in MWO is right I think that its the most realistic weapon in BT

- LRM...difficulte topic. There seams to be two very different discriptions for LRM. One is that LRM are more like a longer ranged direktfire missile. The other is the strategical missile for indiret fire support.
Then we have the problem that targeting-Tech in the BT universe is pretty screwed compared to todays tech.
For realisms sake I would go with the strategic indirekt fire missile. In that case LRMs would be fired over several kilometers away at targets that don't have any chance to retaliate. They can just hide or use ECM and AMS.
They could also be used, as with advanced rules, to lay minefields or bath a part of the land in fire or smoke.
Overall they would be vary different from what we have...except the "please press R for targetlock" ^_^

-SRM...except for maybe faster speed, they are allready quite realistic I think.

-MG I think this also working pretty well, nearly no damage, nice tracer rounds to look at.

Overall with the exceptings of Gauss, SRM and MG the feeling of the fights would change a lot. On the other hand it might not be that bad...except that its not TT rules like.

Laser, PPC and SRM would be your brawling weapons with high damage and short range.
ACs and Gauss would be your primary directfire range weapon. AC would turn into the most versityle weapon of choice as they either offer a high rate of fire or more damage per round.
LRM, with adding mines, fire and smoke ammo could become your strategic weapon of choice.

I kinda find this idea entertaining as weapon types would destinguish themselfs more then they do now.

#25 Nesutizale

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Posted 04 June 2017 - 05:28 AM

View PostrazenWing, on 04 June 2017 - 04:09 AM, said:

I might have gotten the metrics wrong... wait, how many yard in 2 miles?


Everytime I see something like that I think "when will they finaly change to the metric system?"
A system that forces you to actualy think about how to calculate stuff is just ....
I remember when I had to do print jobs for an US comp and it was so ****** up. DIN is so easy. fold the paper in half, you have to next smaller DIN. Double the size you have the next bigger DIN.
US Papersizes.....print out a table you have to look through to find the next fitting size....urg....

#26 xe N on

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Posted 04 June 2017 - 06:51 AM

View PostNesutizale, on 04 June 2017 - 05:23 AM, said:


- ACs would fire at far greater distances and fire a lot faster. I once digged up todays autocannons and BT caliber sizes. Judging from that AC2 and AC5 would fire like machineguns, AC10 would fire at the current AC2/5 speed and only the AC20 would be "slower" as in firing only every 3 seconds.


Firing time accounting the fact that you need to transport ammunition 10 meters across the mech from your left feet into the right shoulder cannon Posted Image

Quote

- PPC are particle accelerators, how they would behave? Well best ask someone at cern to know how it would work at best. What I could imagne and what has a referance in BT is that it would be fireing superheated plasmabolds.
In that case it would be a brawling weapon too. Short range but very high damage.


In fact they could work light lightnings. First, you ionize the air on a path way e.g. by using a super short but very intense electron beam or laser. Than you use this channel as a conductor to fire an intense impuls of charged particles along that channel. Lightnings can reach some kilometers.

Quote

-SRM...except for maybe faster speed, they are allready quite realistic I think.


Except nobody would build an unguided missile weapon that has a range of 270 m. Even a medieval long bow has a longer range. Why use a missile at all?

https://en.wikipedia...-to-air_missile

Edited by xe N on, 04 June 2017 - 06:53 AM.


#27 sycocys

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Posted 04 June 2017 - 07:20 AM

Okay I'll bite on realism -

How the f do you move ammunition from your legs to your arms past multiple articulating joints? Especially when as far as I can tell several types of that ammunition are far larger in length and/or diameter than those joints.

Why do jump jets have unlimited fuel?

How can you flush coolant out of your system, and not lower your heat capacity? And if you want to say that you are injecting more coolant.... why isn't there any tonnage or slot space allotted to having that system aboard your mech?

How does ECM counter 12 radars, but BAP only counters 1 ECM?

Why do SRMs not just lost trajectory when they run out of accelerant fuel? - the explosive charge doesn't just magically disappear.

How do tiny chicken legs hold up 25+ tons of weight, not to mention all the stresses from running and jumping.

How does a clan engine survive losing 1/3 of the engine? Valve failures reducing the ability for an engine to fire I understand, having 1/3 of your engine blown off doesn't make any sense, the rest would tear itself apart.

Why do 2 mechs facehumping only rub off leg armor?

Why would any army running a force of machines with interchangable parts made for battle ready hot swaps across battalions allow individual pilots to customize those interchangable parts?

Why don't mechs just topple over when they take a step? Especially the ones without arms to provide any useful amount of counterbalance.

And so on and so forth, just so many unrealistic things that I don't think ballistic speed would even rank on the top 20 or 30.

#28 pyrocomp

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Posted 04 June 2017 - 08:41 AM

View Postsycocys, on 04 June 2017 - 07:20 AM, said:

How does a clan engine survive losing 1/3 of the engine? Valve failures reducing the ability for an engine to fire I understand, having 1/3 of your engine blown off doesn't make any sense, the rest would tear itself apart.

Well, this can be explained in the BT space magic terms. Just accept that engine is not just single `burning' volume but has some more to it (like shielding, control systems, cooling, actual power generators etc.). Then consider CXL has different configuration than the IS XL thus placing that critical `burning' volume in the CT only and leaving control circruity, power generators and cooling for the STs. Then loosing ST for CXL won't mean reactor breach and won't stop it from functioning. Just will greatly reduce it's output and effectivenes.

Really, with little imagination you can put some logic under the decisions made. Pity, the devs didn't do that and hadn't provided any explanation. And more to it, some explanations do not stack and contradict each other. That destroys the internal logic integrity and greatly reduces the games quality.
The Xenomorph in Alien franchise aquired acid blood only to serve on purpose - to provide some plausible reason why the Nostromo crew hand't just plainly gunned down that thing and instead ran in circles and paniced. Some for the internal logic and franchise strength.

#29 LMP

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Posted 04 June 2017 - 08:54 AM

Try using some willing suspension of disbelief, much like how one can watch a comic book movie and still enjoy it. MechWarrior is too much fun not to play just because some of it is implausible.

#30 MadHornet

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Posted 04 June 2017 - 09:08 AM

Because the board game mechanics were never truly meant to be in a video game, but it's fun anyway.

And an explanation for the PPC is it holds similar properties to the elusive ball lightning.

Edited by MadHornet, 04 June 2017 - 09:08 AM.


#31 Athom83

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Posted 04 June 2017 - 10:00 AM

View PostNesutizale, on 04 June 2017 - 05:23 AM, said:

My two cents about Bt and realism
- Lasers might hit the moment you fire but would be brawling weapons except you pump in a real lot of energie.

Lasers are a bit fickle in BT. The standard lasers are basically magnifying glasses that melt the armor. ER lasers are a threefold laser system, including a targeting laser, a burst laser, then the burn laser. Pulse lasers are actually the closest thing to our current day lasers.

View PostNesutizale, on 04 June 2017 - 05:23 AM, said:

- ACs would fire at far greater distances and fire a lot faster. I once digged up todays autocannons and BT caliber sizes. Judging from that AC2 and AC5 would fire like machineguns, AC10 would fire at the current AC2/5 speed and only the AC20 would be "slower" as in firing only every 3 seconds.

Again, as said before BT autocannons are more like howitzers firing explosive rounds than "modern cannons". However, LB-X actually use KP rounds alongside their cluster munitions. Hence their generally higher velocity in game. Although, there are actually equivalents to modern day cannons in BT lore. The Rifle family. Light, Medium, Heavy. The reason they largely faded out of service was that they generally lacked the stopping power to take down a battlemech and carried far to little ammo per ton compared to ACs as they used heavy KP rounds instead of HE.

View PostNesutizale, on 04 June 2017 - 05:23 AM, said:

- PPC are particle accelerators, how they would behave? Well best ask someone at cern to know how it would work at best. What I could imagne and what has a referance in BT is that it would be fireing superheated plasmabolds.
In that case it would be a brawling weapon too. Short range but very high damage.

MadBadger said it best. "I decided to focus on the words 'projection', 'cannon'. This isn't a beam. This weapon manages to create a bolt, or ball, of high energy particles that it fires as a contained burst. The energy ball has some self-cohering electromagnetic characteristics that keep all the particles as a distinct bundle until it impacts a target, at which point the energy wrapper disrupts and slams all the particle energy into impacted object."


View PostNesutizale, on 04 June 2017 - 05:23 AM, said:

- Gauss...well we kinda have the first prototypes and while I don't know if the projectile speed in MWO is right I think that its the most realistic weapon in BT

No, we have railgun prototypes. 2 very different methods. However, our current railgun fires undersized sabot shots while BT gauss cannons fire large rods that fit the whole barrel. Also, the BT gauss takes far less energy than out railgun. If a Battlemech tried to fire it, it would likely almost overheat from the energy draw.

View PostNesutizale, on 04 June 2017 - 05:23 AM, said:

- LRM...difficulte topic. There seams to be two very different discriptions for LRM. One is that LRM are more like a longer ranged direktfire missile. The other is the strategical missile for indiret fire support.
Then we have the problem that targeting-Tech in the BT universe is pretty screwed compared to todays tech.
For realisms sake I would go with the strategic indirekt fire missile. In that case LRMs would be fired over several kilometers away at targets that don't have any chance to retaliate. They can just hide or use ECM and AMS.
They could also be used, as with advanced rules, to lay minefields or bath a part of the land in fire or smoke.
Overall they would be vary different from what we have...except the "please press R for targetlock" Posted Image

Technically, LRMs are both direct fire and indirect. They are more closely related to rockets than missiles. Modern day missiles were far to expensive to run in a galactic scale setting, so technology took a step back in some regards. The "lock on" was meant for ranging where the LRMs were to impact than actually seeking out a target.

View PostNesutizale, on 04 June 2017 - 05:23 AM, said:

-SRM...except for maybe faster speed, they are allready quite realistic I think.

They're more like recoilless rifles.





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