188 replies to this topic

[KHETTI]

Gauss charge was added for balance reasons, and its kinda logical.
Its quite simple to sync gauss with lasers or PPCs, its also quite simple to do this in combination with jumping, but it requires atleast some skill to perform.
If you remove the charge up, you can guarantee that jump sniping/poptarting will become the dominant playstyle, even for potatoes, every loadout will become Gauss+whatever, you can expect hoards of quad gauss builds.
Be careful what you wish for, and maybe think about what you say before saying it.

[RoadblockXL]

People seem to have forgotten why gauss rifle charge is in place.

It exists so that:

A: You can't snap fire it. This is because walking around a corner and immediately eating a half-dozen gauss rounds wasn't fun gameplay.
B: That also means that you can't use it for poptarting, which was ubiquitous and was generally considered a very boring meta by the community.
C: It makes the gauss rifle more cumbersome at close ranges so that the AC20 is actually useful.

The charge is meant to make it a "sit-and-snipe" type of weapon. Which they reinforced after the charge was added by increasing its velocity. If charge was removed, the only way to balance it, to avoid the snap-firing problem, is to reduce its velocity, which would just bring it back to being just a long-range autocannon.

Edited by RoadblockXL, 09 June 2017 - 10:22 AM.

[Vxheous]

RoadblockXL, on 09 June 2017 - 10:21 AM, said:

People seem to have forgotten why gauss rifle charge is in place.

It exists so that:

A: You can't snap fire it. This is because walking around a corner and immediately eating a half-dozen gauss rounds wasn't fun gameplay.
B: That also means that you can't use it for poptarting, which was ubiquitous and was generally considered a very boring meta by the community.
C: It makes the gauss rifle more cumbersome at close ranges so that the AC20 is actually useful.

The charge is meant to make it a "sit-and-snipe" type of weapon. Which they reinforced after the charge was added by increasing its velocity. If charge was removed, the only way to balance it, to avoid the snap-firing problem, is to reduce its velocity, which would just bring it back to being just a long-range autocannon.

You're wrong on point B, since Gauss can and is still poptarted. As mentioned in the post above yours, it does take a little coordination though, something that pretty much every Night Gyr pilot that Gauss/PPC's have practiced into muscle memory. You just have to start the gauss charge about 1/3 of the way up on your jump, so that the charge is ready when you've cleared whatever cover you're using.

[RoadblockXL]

Vxheous Kerensky, on 09 June 2017 - 10:28 AM, said:

You're wrong on point B, since Gauss can and is still poptarted. As mentioned in the post above yours, it does take a little coordination though, something that pretty much every Night Gyr pilot that Gauss/PPC's have practiced into muscle memory. You just have to start the gauss charge about 1/3 of the way up on your jump, so that the charge is ready when you've cleared whatever cover you're using.

Well, that's a neat skill that's not nearly as common as poptarting used to be, because nearly everyone used to poptart. Kudos to those who can do it.

I was thinking back to when gauss charge was first implemented. The mechs with gauss and JJ were the highlander, victor, cataphract and shadow hawk, and the combination of the JJ nerfs (some of which have been pulled back) and gauss charge made the gauss poptarts disappear.

[Khobai]

gauss chargeup should just be removed

they should balance gauss' damage instead by giving it a utility ability.

like instead of having it do 15 damage, have it only do 10-12 damage but with a chance for some damage to pierce through armor directly to structure and the ability to get through armor crits.

PPFLD needs a kick in the nuts and gauss is a good place to start.

Edited by Khobai, 09 June 2017 - 11:21 AM.

[Felicitatem Parco]

Khobai, on 09 June 2017 - 11:20 AM, said:

gauss chargeup should just be removed

they should balance gauss' damage instead by giving it a utility ability.

like instead of having it do 15 damage, have it only do 10-12 damage but with a chance for some damage to pierce through armor directly to structure and the ability to get through armor crits.

PPFLD needs a kick in the nuts and gauss is a good place to start.

Removing Gauss charge will increase its usage greatly, as PPC/Gauss deployment will become more common. More PPFLD.

[Khobai]

Quote

Removing Gauss charge will increase its usage greatly, as PPC/Gauss deployment will become more common. More PPFLD.

not if the damage is lowered.

[stealthraccoon]

Khobai, on 09 June 2017 - 11:20 AM, said:

gauss chargeup should just be removed

they should balance gauss' damage instead by giving it a utility ability.

like instead of having it do 15 damage, have it only do 10-12 damage but with a chance for some damage to pierce through armor directly to structure and the ability to get through armor crits.

PPFLD needs a kick in the nuts and gauss is a good place to start.

Sooo, what you want is the upcoming "light Gauss" to not have a charge time... why neuter the regular Gauss? Sounds to me like a few people are just asking for an 'insta-kill' PPFLD weapon to abuse because PPC's force you to lead targets at range (which is difficult, and who wants a difficult game, rite?!?)

Edited by stealthraccoon, 09 June 2017 - 12:09 PM.

[Jiang Wei]

KHETTI, on 09 June 2017 - 09:55 AM, said:

Gauss charge was added for balance reasons, and its kinda logical.
Its quite simple to sync gauss with lasers or PPCs, its also quite simple to do this in combination with jumping, but it requires atleast some skill to perform.
If you remove the charge up, you can guarantee that jump sniping/poptarting will become the dominant playstyle, even for potatoes, every loadout will become Gauss+whatever, you can expect hoards of quad gauss builds.
Be careful what you wish for, and maybe think about what you say before saying it.

I didnt say I wanted it unnerfed. I just want different nerfs so the weapon will be useful again.

Does anhyone know if the light and heavy guass will also have this charge up? Probably will...

Edited by Jiang Wei, 09 June 2017 - 07:48 PM.

[Kanil]

Jiang Wei, on 09 June 2017 - 07:43 PM, said:

I didnt say I wanted it unnerfed. I just want different nerfs so the weapon will be useful again.

As someone who considers the gauss rifle perfectly usable in it's current state, I don't really want it nerfed just because you can't handle the charge up mechanic.

[Jiang Wei]

Kanil, on 09 June 2017 - 07:48 PM, said:

As someone who considers the gauss rifle perfectly usable in it's current state, I don't really want it nerfed just because you can't handle the charge up mechanic.

Its usable, just not useful. Or efficient, rather.

[Tarogato]

Jiang Wei, on 10 June 2017 - 01:36 AM, said:

Its usable, just not useful. Or efficient, rather.

That's because it's already been nerfed too many times.

[Khobai]

Quote

Sooo, what you want is the upcoming "light Gauss" to not have a charge time... why neuter the regular Gauss? Sounds to me like a few people are just asking for an 'insta-kill' PPFLD weapon to abuse because PPC's force you to lead targets at range (which is difficult, and who wants a difficult game, rite?!?)

Because regular gauss needs to be neutered. especially clan gauss which is 3 tons lighter than IS gauss with no downside. its an abusive, overpowered weapon.

Simple as that really. Game cant handle the 50 damage PPFLD that gauss enables. PGI themselves have said in the past that the armor system cant handle more than 30 damage PPFLD (probably more like 35-40 with the new survivability tree).

Quote

That's because it's already been nerfed too many times.

And yet despite all its so-called nerfs, its still one of the most overused and abused weapons.chargeup was not the correct way to nerf it because chargeup doesnt address what makes gauss so ridiculous. You can still combo Gauss with PPCs for 50 damage alphas.

the combination of 15 damage for 1 heat at long range is what makes it so ridiculous. the combination of those three characteristics on one weapon is NOT balanced. if you want to balance gauss properly then you need to fix at least one of those three things.

Like I said before I think lowering the damage on gauss from 15 to 10-12 but giving it a chance to pierce through armor and damage structure directly is the best way to nerf it. Similarly light gauss (leave it at 8 damage) and heavy gauss (lower the damage from 25 to 20-22) should also get the ability to pierce through armor. And without the abusive damage you can get rid of chargeup completely.

That gives gauss a utility ability no other weapon has, while also fixing the problem of gauss doing too much pinpoint damage.

Edited by Khobai, 10 June 2017 - 03:39 AM.

[Zigmund Freud]

I like the charge up mechanics, it makes ballistic weapons more different, at least a bit diversity and specification in weapon mechanics. OP is just ridiculous, "omg i've seen a noob playing %weapon% wrong, therefore %weapon% is broken!". Pleace, if you find gauss to hard to use - either learn to use it (it's not hard at all), or don't use it. Gauss is in perfect shape and place right now, maybe even slightly OP.
I know some people just want to have AC15 with same boring mechanics on every single ballistic gun, cause it's too hard to use their beloved 2 gauss + 2 erppc meta, but luckily, Piggy doesn't listen to them.

[Shifty McSwift]

Khobai, on 10 June 2017 - 03:29 AM, said:

Because regular gauss needs to be neutered. especially clan gauss which is 3 tons lighter than IS gauss with no downside. its an abusive, overpowered weapon.

Simple as that really. Game cant handle the 50 damage PPFLD that gauss enables. PGI themselves have said in the past that the armor system cant handle more than 30 damage PPFLD (probably more like 35-40 with the new survivability tree).



And yet despite all its so-called nerfs, its still one of the most overused and abused weapons.chargeup was not the correct way to nerf it because chargeup doesnt address what makes gauss so ridiculous. You can still combo Gauss with PPCs for 50 damage alphas.

the combination of 15 damage for 1 heat at long range is what makes it so ridiculous. the combination of those three characteristics on one weapon is NOT balanced. if you want to balance gauss properly then you need to fix at least one of those three things.

Like I said before I think lowering the damage on gauss from 15 to 10-12 but giving it a chance to pierce through armor and damage structure directly is the best way to nerf it. Similarly light gauss (leave it at 8 damage) and heavy gauss (lower the damage from 25 to 20-22) should also get the ability to pierce through armor. And without the abusive damage you can get rid of chargeup completely.

That gives gauss a utility ability no other weapon has, while also fixing the problem of gauss doing too much pinpoint damage.

I agree in many ways here, buuuuut, there are several factors at work, the idea of non twitchfire gauss, maxed at volleys of two per mech by itself is livable levels of PPFLD, to me the problems come in as you pointed out the ridiculous heat conservation, and when you add PPCs into the equation, which function way too well in combination.

[Khobai]

Quote

to me the problems come in as you pointed out the ridiculous heat conservation, and when you add PPCs into the equation, which function way too well in combination.

but how do you fix that? do you really want to add tyrannical new mechanics like energy draw that constrict how many weapons you can fire at one time? that cure is worse than the disease.

the better solution IMO is just to lower the damage on gauss. and replace the damage with a utility ability like armor piercing. it fixes the problem with gauss doing too much damage while keep gauss distinct as a weapon by giving it a unique utility ability.

Quote

Gauss is in perfect shape and place right now, maybe even slightly OP.

Gauss is massively OP. At least the clan version which is 3 tons lighter with no real downside compared to the IS version. The IS version is better balanced simply because of its sheer bulk.

The issue with chargeup is that it doesnt actually balance gauss. All it does is increase the skill barrier to use gauss. But for players who overcome that initial skill barrier, chargeup completely fails to fix any the reasons why gauss is such a broken weapon.

The combination of 15 damage for 1 heat and long range is simply not a combination of characteristics that should exist on any weapon (for the obvious reason that it synergizes too well with PPCs). Something has to give to make it balanced. And I vote for lower damage (10-12 instead of 15) in exchange for the ability to pierce armor and get through armor crits. And of course the removal of chargeup.

Edited by Khobai, 10 June 2017 - 05:13 AM.

[QuantumButler]

What are you crazy OP, the "Draw your bowstring" mechanic is amazing.

That's what the MWO gauss rifle is by the way, a mech sized longbow with mechanics straight out of Skyrim.

Edited by QuantumButler, 10 June 2017 - 05:08 AM.

[Khobai]

Quote

That's what the MWO gauss rifle is by the way, a mech sized longbow with mechanics straight out of Skyrim.

and clearly they should add mechbows to the game. then that mechanic would make sense.

but on gauss its stupid.

[Shakma]

Khobai, on 10 June 2017 - 05:04 AM, said:

The combination of 15 damage for 1 heat and long range is simply not a combination of characteristics that should exist on any weapon (for the obvious reason that it synergizes too well with PPCs). Something has to give to make it balanced. And I vote for lower damage (10-12 instead of 15) in exchange for the ability to pierce armor and get through armor crits. And of course the removal of chargeup.

As others tried to point out already, the charge mechanic itself didn't do much to the gauss. With a little practice you can just aswell jumpsnipe with or use it in brawls. Only snap-shots got harder to pull off, but not impossible if you're mindfull with your charge up timings.

The AC20 owns the GR in brawl not such much cause of the charge mechanic but simply cause of it's considerably higher DPS.

Poptarting with PPC/GR got nerfed (thank god) by making JJs nearly useless on assaults and most heavies and the fact that PPC and GR projectile speeds differ by alot. This ensures that hitting fast moving targets in the same component with PPCs & GR in "one" shot to be impossible.

As I said b4, Imo this wonky charging mechanic is a bad way to tackle the GR instead via it's other variables.

Edited by Shakma, 10 June 2017 - 09:37 AM.

[Johnny Z]

Goose charge up is bad.