43 replies to this topic

[Ted Wayz]

JC Daxion, on 08 June 2017 - 02:07 PM, said:

I've not played a lot over the last few weeks the tree has been out. (it's not even been out a month) So basically a couple of decent evenings, and some scattered play time with an hour here and there. I must of skilled up 30+ mechs easily, and 2-3 i did in the couple long evenings from scratch.. aka i grinded from the start.

At your pace it would take over 32 weeks to get all mine back to where they were. Sorry I do not feel like investing that time in a net zero sum activity.

And the people complaining with many mechs like me...think about how much we supported the game only to have PGI screw us for our support.

Oh, and 90% of these "I love the skill tree" threads do not seem to make it over 1 page before dying. Does that tell you something? In this case I am trying to help you get over that hump because I feel bad for this thread.

[Tordin]

Good to hear! Just dont spread to much optimism around here, blindfolded or open minded. The salt caves will tremble real hard with all those miners inside. And the miners will undermine your opinion for sure, getting the chance. Even though PGI does deserve critique of the constructive kind, its not good enough for the saltminers, because critique needs to be made of pure hatredsalt

[Jettrik Ryflix]

Ted Wayz, on 08 June 2017 - 03:21 PM, said:

At your pace it would take over 32 weeks to get all mine back to where they were. Sorry I do not feel like investing that time in a net zero sum activity.

And the people complaining with many mechs like me...think about how much we supported the game only to have PGI screw us for our support.

I have 138 mechs, and I'm not complaining. After doing the first 5 or 6 mechs, I can get through the skill tree with ease. In fact, I spend way less time messing around with my mechs now, because I don't have to module swap anymore.

The bottom line is, with that many mechs, there is no way you're using them all, anyway (this was definitely the case for me). So now, when I want to bring out a dusty mech, I spend 5 minutes on loadout, camo, and Skill Tree, and I'm done. I don't have to have all my unused mechs "skilled out" right away. Nobody does.

Ted Wayz, on 08 June 2017 - 03:21 PM, said:

Oh, and 90% of these "I love the skill tree" threads do not seem to make it over 1 page before dying. Does that tell you something? In this case I am trying to help you get over that hump because I feel bad for this thread.

Maybe it's because the people making these threads (and most of the ones agreeing with them) are actually in the game?

If you were actually playing the game instead of crying on every Skill Tree thread, maybe you'd have a better understanding of it, and how it actually isn't that big of a deal.

[JC Daxion]

Ted Wayz, on 08 June 2017 - 03:21 PM, said:

At your pace it would take over 32 weeks to get all mine back to where they were. Sorry I do not feel like investing that time in a net zero sum activity.

And the people complaining with many mechs like me...think about how much we supported the game only to have PGI screw us for our support.

Oh, and 90% of these "I love the skill tree" threads do not seem to make it over 1 page before dying. Does that tell you something? In this case I am trying to help you get over that hump because I feel bad for this thread.

It tells me that people happy about it spend a hella lot less time talking about it and actually playing..

Let me ask you this.. How long would it take you to play all your mechs if you had to do nothing? I couldn't get to even dropping in 300 mechs in a year if i had to do nothing. Play the mechs you want, Spend 5 mins when you play said mech, If that.. Does it really matter if most of your mechs are not skilled up if you are not playing them anyway?

It doesn't bother me in the least that i have tons of mechs unskilled, because if i want to play it, it takes me all of a couple mins to add them. For example, in the time it took me to respond to this thread, i could of skilled another mech..


But even still the ST is hardly that, Mechs are playing so different with them and the other changes. It is very refreshing. Be honest, when was the last time you played 1/2 of your mechs, bet it was longer ago than a year. If this tree gives you new reason to play something you haven't played in over a year, isn't that a good thing, even if it does cause you a tiny bit of time in the short term?

Edited by JC Daxion, 08 June 2017 - 06:54 PM.

[JC Daxion]

Jettrik Ryflix, on 08 June 2017 - 03:37 PM, said:

I have 138 mechs, and I'm not complaining. After doing the first 5 or 6 mechs, I can get through the skill tree with ease. In fact, I spend way less time messing around with my mechs now, because I don't have to module swap anymore.

Yea no kidding.. which mechs have my SRM cooldown module loaded up? I know i have 5 of the darn things.. where did i leave um last?

I spend more time screwing around with builds on smurfy thinking about a slight tweak than it takes to skill up a mech. I felt like dropping in my Huggin last night, took all of 2 mins, then played a few drops.


In the time i made this responce i could of skilled up my Stalker 3F..damn 2 mechs unskilled because of forum posts!

Edited by JC Daxion, 08 June 2017 - 03:49 PM.

[Vellron2005]

Personally, I love the skill tree, and since it's implementation have mastered mechs I had only basiced before..

I got a lot of cbills from the switch, and the Tuk3 event that followed, so I bought a bunch of new mechs.. the majority of my cbills went to 2 new Supernovas and a Kitfox, and mastering the previously basiced mechs..

I am very very happy about the Skill tree and think it's a great system.

It's not perfect, but it did wonders for this game..

[627]

The more I get used to the new skill tree the more I think that it will end in a default config for all mechs with maybe 20 points in variety at all.

Maybe you get 2-3 templates based on playstyle or jumpjet-mechs but in the end you'll basically take the same nodes for each mechs every time.

Hope I'm wrong, though. And I'll wait till we see the new tech and what it brings to the skill tree. But I have some doubts.

[Mumuharra]

Vellron2005, on 09 June 2017 - 12:41 AM, said:

Personally, I love the skill tree, and since it's implementation have mastered mechs I had only basiced before..

I got a lot of cbills from the switch, and the Tuk3 event that followed, so I bought a bunch of new mechs.. the majority of my cbills went to 2 new Supernovas and a Kitfox, and mastering the previously basiced mechs..

I am very very happy about the Skill tree and think it's a great system.

It's not perfect, but it did wonders for this game..

This will happen for sure and PGI will change the tree several times to sink money, XP etc.
But it was mentioned befor, the tree made the game more interesting again and gave me the chance to master new mechs without the rule-of-3.
And when I watch my skill-nodes they really differ from mech to mech and are focused on the role of this mech.
Don't know how strong it affects the mech but it's OK so.

Maybe it's not perfect but for me it's better than before and way better then the disaster I expected.

Have fun

Edited by Mumuharra, 09 June 2017 - 03:35 AM.

[PhoenixFire55]

I admit, I too love the game since skill tree ... the amount of noobs running around in wrongly skilled mechs or even properly skilled sh!tmechs who think that skill nodes compensate for said sh!mechs shortcomings is so damn high that farming PUGs became almost too easy.

[STEF_]

Agree with OP.

I left 6 months ago, for extreme boredom....and now I'm dropping hours on daily bases.

On the very first post of my coming back, I wrote to thank PGI.......which I felt.......very strange
https://mwomercs.com...r-6-months-and/

[Zookeeper Dan]

I agree, this has been great! Just skilling up one mech instead of grinding through three is a big improvement. I spend my time playing the mechs I want instead of games feeling like a chore because I'm playing mechs only to skill up others.

And I'm loving not hunting for modules whenever I want change mechs! I just chose the mech and go knowing it's ready. And with fewer mechs being played I can keep engines and cockpit items on my favorites so I'm spending less time searching for those also.

[meteorol]

Have to say, i do enjoy the skilltree.

[Brom96]

The bottom line is not if the we like the tree or not (I don\t, not in this form, at least, just to be clear), but whether the brand new players will find easier way to sink in the game or not. If it turns out it's the pure grind for them, you will expect many of them leaving, which leads to other issues, etc.

[Bud Crue]

Can't say I love the skills tree. I'm largely indifferent to it in terms of what it provides (though an extra cool shot is nice), since to get noticeable effects you have to min max desired attributes. That makes it pretty easy to use frankly, but also boring. At least such predictability minimizes ones need to experience the UI of it and makes clicking the pre-determined paths a bit less of a chore (god I wish they would let us save node paths or at least auto fill from the bottom up).

In practical terms I am only applying it to a set of 4 IS mechs just in case I can sucker...I mean convince...anyone to play CW and am using mostly quirkless Clan mechs to do any sort of experimenting with it, but here too they have all ended up with mostly the same nodes but for a few exceptions (like those running ECM have slightly different sensors branch for example). I am trying to build them to minimize the impact of game changes that will demand (or at least push) respecing. And that is the part that more than any other aspect makes me hate the skills tree.

I think I am pretty safe with with mobility and sensors. I can't see them doing much here come the big rebalance in August or September. So I hope I won't need to respec these anytime soon.

But I do think they will be messing with the values on the survival and operations pretty substantially when they do that rebalance. To many threads illustrating the lack of benefit of much of the operations web vs what one can get through firepower, and too much in game evidence of certain mechs "overperforming" in terms of endurance. So feel confident that changes here will necessitate respec in a couple months.

This month I think weapons and operations values are going to be messed with when they do the energy rebalance. Next month PGI has said flat out that they are going to mess with the nodes when new tech arrives. So lots of changes and lots of changed nodes to pay for. Love or hate the skills tree itself, that uncertainty of having any idea of what is going to do what and for how long, and how much it is going to cost me every time they screw with values; makes me not want to use the tree at all.

[Wyald Katt]

627, on 09 June 2017 - 12:47 AM, said:

Maybe you get 2-3 templates based on playstyle...

It took maybe going through laser vomit variations for 10 or so mechs, but I have hit on an optimal skill tree approach for myself. Roughly, do I need this, do I need that, etc, okay, how much is left for Firepower.

Seriously, it's become the new normal. Not as horrid as I feared. Change, change bad. Bad like fire. Bad like standing in LRM rain. Baaad. Change. Bad.

I'm still having fun when I play. If nothing else, I do believe that most of my mechs feel like they're performing better for how I like to play. My Linebacker Prime and Redline are exceptions. Did they lose that much with the engine desync? I dunno, and I'm sure I'll find more oddballs as I derp my way through the other 200 mechs. But still having lots of fun.

Bud Crue, on 09 June 2017 - 05:33 AM, said:

This month I think weapons and operations values are going to be messed with when they do the energy rebalance...

CHANGE. CHANGE BAD. BAAAD.

Just when I started feeling better about things.

Edited by Wyald Katt, 09 June 2017 - 05:44 AM.

[Thomas G Wolf]

JC Daxion, on 08 June 2017 - 02:07 PM, said:

It's funny that the only people i see saying this are the folks with hundreds of mechs. How many 1k's of hours did you guys play pre-skill tree? But spending a little time now to learn a new system is some how a huge waste of your time? The first few mechs i played it took me a bit to figure it out. I basically played an evening or two to figure it out, and decided the best way to learn was to level a mech from start to finish the way the system was designed to be played so i bought a mech i never played before and leveled it. Now, i play a mech in a match, and see how it reacts, then i pretty much know exactly what i need, i skill about about 2/3's to 3/4 of the points in about 2 mins, play a few more, then tweak the end. Sometimes i just do a quick drop on tourmaline instead in testing for all of two mins to see how engine desycn was, and blast away at the atlas standing there to get an idea of the heat on the mech, and then skill up with about 1/2 the points before my first match. This takes less than 5 mins total, not even the time of a single QP match! I've not played a lot over the last few weeks the tree has been out. (it's not even been out a month) So basically a couple of decent evenings, and some scattered play time with an hour here and there. I must of skilled up 30+ mechs easily, and 2-3 i did in the couple long evenings from scratch.. aka i grinded from the start. Heck i hadn't even gotten to the mechs i use in my Drop decks and the other night i wanted to play 2 for the event, and it took me less than 10 mins to do all 4, then i played 2 FW drops.. The total time to skill up the FW mechs and drop in the matches was just about an hour. I'm actually surprised at how many i've done so far, with how little i played.

I have almost 300 mechs and I am getting to play each and everyone of them again, some which I have not touched for years, so I am happy with the new skill system on the whole, I also have SP left over from the refund to max out 100 new mechs without having to spend one c-bill, (I also now have the 100 free mechbays to house these new mechs thanks to the very genoerous offers that PGI have given us over the past few months).

I am playing each and everyone of my mechs, first I check the loadout then I do the skill tree, maybe chance a bit on the loadout and then drive the mech to see what it is like. And I am enjoying it, it gives me a reason to look at each mech and I am making a ton of c-bills on the side while I enjoy myself, so it is a win win situation for me, but then I like my mechs for what they are and not because I absolutly need to play a meta Mech. I get more fun out of doing good (for my standards a match with a damage score under 200 and under 150 matchscore is subpar for me but they also happen, but hey I never said I WAS ANY GOOD AT THIS GAME, I JUST HAVE FUN MOST OF THE TIME) in a non meta meme Mech then in a killer meta mech.

It is pretty much of what ever floats your boat.

So all told I am a happy camper by and large.

Edited by Thomas G Wolf, 09 June 2017 - 06:01 AM.

[Fox With A Shotgun]

I actually have to say that the Skill Tree is probably better than many people think it is.

So I heard that people said that it was more expensive for new players to master a mech? No, not necessarily true. Under the old Rule of Three system for mastering a given mech, you had to buy THREE variants of a mech. THREE. For a lighter IS mech, this isn't so much of a pain, because the mechs usually come with STD engines and you could just swap-and-go for each one with the one expensive XL that you had to get. But what about a Dire Whale? 54 million CBills (18m x 3) is prohibitively expensive for someone who really only needs to master one. Granted, this is an extreme example, but it serves to illustrate that the old system doesn't quite work out for newer players trying to buy into an assault mech and/or those that cannot have engines switched out (Clan omnimechs).

Honestly, though, I rolled a new account just to see what it was like for a new (albeit with knowing how the game works and knowing exactly what mech I wanted to get *cough* kitfox *cough*), I found myself with a massive, massive surplus of CBills and a mastered mech by the time I got through the first 25 matches. Given the price of a fully outfitted KFX is 5-7 million CBills excluding weapon modules, radar deprivation modules, etc. before the Skill Tree, this is actually a major saving for any new player trying to get on the same level as other veterans. You actually need far less time investment to get a mech up and running. Not to mention that since many of the nodes on the firepower tree are universal and not specialised, you actually mix and match weapon types and not have to worry about what module you're going to need to buy next to make the odd weapon work well.

And for people with lots of old mechs? I say it's still a good thing. I have 3 KFX-C's, a KFX-Prime, a KFX-S, a KFX-D and a KFX-PR. I can configure each of those duplicate KFX-C's with specialised skill tree nodes if I felt like it, switch out 2 LPL for 2 PPC or 3 ERLL and not have to worry about whether or not I've switched out the range/CD modules to the appropriate weapon type. They're interchangeable for most part, barring specialised nodes like laser burn duration, missile rack/crit or UAC jam/LBX spread. Don't have to keep a bajillion redundant modules, just in case I felt like rolling into FW with 3x ERPPC KFX-C one day, and 3x triple ERLL KFX-C the next.

Heck, I could even configure my mech to punish the current flavour of the day of players. Lots of LRM? Switch to the one configured with AMS bonuses and maxed Radar Deprivation. Lots of cowering brawlers? Punish them with extra range and mobility. Feel like brawling with cold small pulse lasers? Better hop into the one with maxed survival and mobility. And I could even fine-tune these for best performance in most conditions, as opposed to just a plain "what weapon do I need to put on steroids today?". The possibilities are there.

[Bud Crue]

Wyald Katt, on 09 June 2017 - 05:44 AM, said:

CHANGE. CHANGE BAD. BAAAD.

Just when I started feeling better about things.

Change is fine. Being charged for change everytime PGI decides they feel like changing something is not. That is the nature of the game now. Pay to node, then pay again when PGI adds something, and again when they take it away, and again when your "OP mech" gets nerfed, and again when your "underperformer" gets buffed, and again when they fell certain weapons are not meeting their "internally established performance values", and again...

[WarHippy]

Mumuharra, on 08 June 2017 - 07:55 AM, said:

.... and you know what I love most?
No more need for 3 mechs to make 1 or 2 work.

I had around 85 mastered and well equiped mechs in my stable.
But I was realy on the edge to reduce gametime radicaly because it was stupid for me to buy one new mech and nort beeing able to max him out.
Sometimes the 3-of-rule showed me one gem of a mech wich I didnt expected but mostly 1 or 2 variants gathered dust after mastering.

And now since the new rule I bought:
2 x Warhammer
1 x Super Nova
1 x Nova
1 x Ebon Jaguar
1 x Hunchback IIC
1 x Shadow Cat

I must admit 400.000.000 c-bills and 400.000 gxp help a little bit but also without this generous gift from PGI I love to try new mechs again ( and not beeing forced to buy and equipe 3).

Realy good move for me.

And by the way, the new skill tree is not as crappy as expected and most of my mechs (at least the one I loved to play before) are still fun (more or less some times).

Whats your experience?

Have fun!

Good to hear. I do find it interesting though that a lot of people that are happy about the skill tree always seem to list the rule of three being gone as the primary reason when that really isn't a part of the skill tree. They could have made that change long ago without the skill tree they just chose to link the change to when they added the new skill tree.

[Johnny Z]

The game play is still excellent it just allows for many more load outs and a lot more tuning of the mechs. Could not have been done better.

Its better than I expected because I may have been more about specializing each mech or other things like that. Instead this opened mech customization up and in hind sight thats a better way to do it.

Looking forward to the new tech and more updates.

Edited by Johnny Z, 09 June 2017 - 10:21 AM.