17 replies to this topic

[JediPanther]

I've been messing with my mechs and decided to go for a full lrm mech. Rather than risk messing up and having to pay for re spec on my c1f I used the c4. It is a very dependent mech on having a good team. It can't fight in a brawl or 1 vs anything.

Like all dedicated lrm mechs that don't have much options for defense you need that 300-500m sweet spot while never being far from team mates. People can argue all the day and night that mech __ is better than mech __ because of ____.

I just love the catapults and use them as my main missile mechs. Since it is built for solo play you'll always have those matches where you do under 200 damage and other times you'll see sky high damage numbers.

My main goal of being a lrmer is to deny movement,pressure snipers to relocate, and open up targets in the open. The more damage I can do means brawlers and snipers have to do less.

Here is the build: CPLT-C4 st lrm build ver 1

Max sensor tree means you get full seismic, radar range, lock on time, and lock retention. Almost full firepower gives you much needed velocity,cool down,heat generation. The screen shot shows what a well organized team can do that covers each other,locks targets,re-positions, and focuses fire can do. It is the exception rather than the norm for solo play. Every one on the team did pretty well.

[Jiang Wei]

I use an atlas for a fun missle boat on the pugs. Its weird though... my non ecm atlas does better than my ddc with ecm and the same weapon loadout. I think people see an ecm atlas and tend to go berzerk. Happens when I am a brawler too. People really hate the sight of an atllas with ecm.

Edited by Jiang Wei, 08 June 2017 - 04:30 PM.

[Ted Wayz]

Do you ever run out of ammo? I ask because I have had similar games or better in my LRM80 w/ Artemis SNV-A with 3 tons less. That build frequently runs short on ammo, but by that time the outcome is usually decided and I am chasing down the remaining few using secondaries.

[Novakaine]

Novakaine approved

[JediPanther]

Ted Wayz, on 08 June 2017 - 08:16 PM, said:

Do you ever run out of ammo? I ask because I have had similar games or better in my LRM80 w/ Artemis SNV-A with 3 tons less. That build frequently runs short on ammo, but by that time the outcome is usually decided and I am chasing down the remaining few using secondaries.

You can for a lot of reasons but as for my experience you either end up dead or the match ends long before running out of ammo. Reasons I normally run out of ammo are: Trigger happy shooting at any lock, enemy breaks locks, team mate breaks lock, enemy gets to cover, enemy has a lot of ams, I blind fire at an enemy but the number one reason I break my own locks is to go lasers hot shooting at a higher priority target such as a light after me or a team mate is engaging at an enemy in my los I know my meds can hit.

With nearly max sensors and bap you have seismic sensor and target decay so with good map awareness it is hard(er) for a light to come up and core out your rt. The mech build gives it 2160/30 ammo since you fire 30 with both launchers or chain fire for 15 and 15. Range is maxed out to 1035m. Remove a laser for tag and you can get 750m-ish los locks.

On open area maps like polar you have around 700m range. I'm not too sure on that exactly but I was able to get a lock on an heavy in polar on dom mode when it poped up from cover. I blind fired at it and didn't really notice the exact distance. When you run lrms a lot for fire support you learn to prioritize targets, judge which targets will probably avoid your lrms, decide that it's at a range you don't want to risk loosing a salvo on, or you just fire one of the two launchers for the physiological effect.

Still even with all the goodies it comes down to your experience with the mech and weapon system. Catapults can tank a lot of damage when you torso twist especially on standard and case equipped builds. This build is purely fire support hence it's use of the xl and all the weakness of the is xl.

Ideally you'd never run out of ammo. If you really want to lrm all day and night cycle long just switch out to a heavy mech that can do six lrm 5s and chain fire.The video below shows this build in a more normal pug match. We had a voip 'commander' who wanted us to do the power down and ambush base capers. It show cases all the weakness of the lrm dedicated Catapult in close quarters. The two jump jets barely get it above one of the smaller platforms since there are no points in the jump jet tree. And you can see that I get quite annoyed with fighting lights in the catapult in that particular area because of the cat's vertical combat useless torso mounted laser hard points. That light pilot though was pretty good for sniping.

[Ted Wayz]

Keep in mind any unused ammo means you were carrying dead weight. I would rather beef up my secondaries or find some other way to spend the tonnage than end the match with unused ammo.

Also ammo in the legs with JJ's can be risky.

Why not use the Archer? I am thinking it will be more viable when the new weapon systems arrive.

[MischiefSC]

Novakaine, on 08 June 2017 - 08:51 PM, said:

Novakaine approved

Because I actually do play LRM boats in QP sometimes I'll tell you the secret optimal uber LRM boat I use. This guy is close but misses where the C4 shines -

C4, Go LURM or Go Home

With quirks and the right skill tree choices (velocity, range, heat gen. Sensors just enough to get target decay/lock. DERP and Seismic is a tax on bad situational awareness, spend your points where they will really matter).

With quirks it's got -10% heat gen on missiles out of the gate. 20% cooldown on them and then laser range quirks which helps TAG - pushing your tag to 877m, letting you rock the combined Artemis + Tag bonus for super quick locks and CT focused hits almost out to your max missile range. With the velocity quirks you're faster to target and with heat gen you're firing longer.

It's got no 'backup weapon' because you're not going to get much done with 1 MPL (all you'd have room for) at a cost of 2 tons of ammo.

If you're going to LRM, know what you're good for and play accordingly. Like all LRMs it's feast/famine, if you get a map with bad cover and a team of bads you're going to farm great damage. If you drop on a map with cover or against a good team, you're going to get stomped.

However I've found that if I'm positioning well I can burn through almost the whole bin and 1K damage isn't a stretch. For all peoples talk of IS LRM boats being better you can get a rock solid LRM 60 + Artemis on an EBJ with TAG and carry just fine.

What I do find really funny is that on the maps where you win with LRMs nobody says anything but GG. When you lose, especially if you lost because of LRMs (which certainly happens) people don't hesitate to point that out. You'd think people seeing me in an LRM boat would know that I do know better - but it's QP, so play for fun.

[Vellron2005]

Oh I recently saw a Catapult C4 in a QP match.. he played smart the whole match and did 1400+ damage with 7 kills..

I repeat.. QP..

So please, tell me again how LRMs are a bad weapon ;-)

I love LRM boats, but never go full LRM with no backups.. in fact, I try to keep my backups plentiful..

Best builds are:

Archer: 2 x LRM15 + 6Mediums (probably most kills with this one on the IS side)
Timberwolf: 4 x LRM10 + 4 ERML (Awesome support build, one of my favorite go-to mechs)
Timberwolf: 2 LRM 20 + 4 MPL (a bit hot - my MVP of Tukayyid2)
Mad Dog: 6 x LRM5 + 5 ERML (favorite Mad Dog build so far, got lots of kills and KMDD's with it)
Mad Dog: 2 LRM20 + 5 ERSL (Ammo shortages but good)
Supernova: 2 x LRM20A + 2 x LRM15A + 4 SPL (newest, but absolutely brutal build)
Mauler: 2 x LRM15 + 6 Mediums (My only mech ever to brake 1000+ damage in a QP)
Highlander IIC: 2 x LRM20A + 3ERLL (came close to breaking 1000+ damage in QP, fell short at 980-ish)
Trebuche: 2 x LRM10 + 3 Mediums (Descent medium LRM boat with JumpJets)

Edited by Vellron2005, 08 June 2017 - 11:20 PM.

[Ced Riggs]

Vellron2005, on 08 June 2017 - 11:16 PM, said:

So please, tell me again how LRMs are a bad weapon ;-)

Anecdotal evidence, especially when an outlier to the standard, is not admissable. Sorry.

[MischiefSC]

Vellron2005, on 08 June 2017 - 11:16 PM, said:

Oh I recently saw a Catapult C4 in a QP match.. he played smart the whole match and did 1400+ damage with 7 kills..

I repeat.. QP..

So please, tell me again how LRMs are a bad weapon ;-)

I love LRM boats, but never go full LRM with no backups.. in fact, I try to keep my backups plentiful..

Best builds are:

Archer: 2 x LRM15 + 6Mediums (probably most kills with this one on the IS side)
Timberwolf: 4 x LRM10 + 4 ERML (Awesome support build, one of my favorite go-to mechs)
Timberwolf: 2 LRM 20 + 4 MPL (a bit hot - my MVP of Tukayyid2)
Mad Dog: 6 x LRM5 + 5 ERML (favorite Mad Dog build so far, got lots of kills and KMDD's with it)
Mad Dog: 2 LRM20 + 5 ERSL (Ammo shortages but good)
Supernova: 2 x LRM20A + 2 x LRM15A + 4 SPL (newest, but absolutely brutal build)
Mauler: 2 x LRM15 + 6 Mediums (My only mech ever to brake 1000+ damage in a QP)
Highlander IIC: 2 x LRM20A + 3ERLL (came close to breaking 1000+ damage in QP, fell short at 980-ish)
Trebuche: 2 x LRM10 + 3 Mediums (Descent medium LRM boat with JumpJets)

You're not going to deal with someone pushing you with 2 or 3 medium lasers. 4+, maybe.

I've got a Highlander I take out for Lurm giggles. 2x15s, 2x10s, tag and an LPL. Because the LPL can do damage to people I'm LRMing. Far less viable with MLs. You want to go MLs, bring SRMs and use them all together. TBR with 4xSRM6A and 4xMPL or 4xSPL is one of the best TBR builds there is and gets used in comp.

LRMs are a feast or famine weapon. If it's a LRM friendly map and you're farming potatoes you're going to pile up kills and damage. If the map has a lot of cover and/or the other team is good you're going to get destroyed. 2 or 3 MLs isn't going to save you.

[627]

Haven't played for a while but what about 4xLRM10 against 2xALRM15?
CPLT-C4


Sure, it is hotter and slower, but you can at least get out more missiles in shorter time. Not sure about the CoF on non Artemis LRM10

[Savage Wolf]

With a C1 you can change to tons of ammo with two extra mediums. Personally I even run 4xMPL. But 2 mediums just doesn't cut it as backup.

[The6thMessenger]

[Vellron2005]

MischiefSC, on 08 June 2017 - 11:48 PM, said:

You're not going to deal with someone pushing you with 2 or 3 medium lasers. 4+, maybe.

2 or 3 MLs isn't going to save you.

You'd be surprised.. Sure, you can't out-brawl anyone, but on many many occasions have I used 3 medium lasers to chase off pesky lights.. I agree that 2 mediums aren't much, but in a pinch, its better than no backups.. And it might save you if you softened them up enough before they pushed you.. 3 mediums of 4 SPL is a minimum for me as backups..

It gets the message across, and the message is "oh you wanna dance? Let's dance!"

As I said, it's not meant to save you from a straight-up brawler like a Warhammer or Hunchback, but a Spider or Cheetah might think twice.. especially if you protect your rear..

For brawlers, if they manage to get close to you, you LURM'd wrong..

Edited by Vellron2005, 09 June 2017 - 04:37 AM.

[Novakaine]

Vellron2005, on 08 June 2017 - 11:16 PM, said:

Oh I recently saw a Catapult C4 in a QP match.. he played smart the whole match and did 1400+ damage with 7 kills..

I repeat.. QP..

So please, tell me again how LRMs are a bad weapon ;-)

I love LRM boats, but never go full LRM with no backups.. in fact, I try to keep my backups plentiful..

Best builds are:

Archer: 2 x LRM15 + 6Mediums (probably most kills with this one on the IS side)
Timberwolf: 4 x LRM10 + 4 ERML (Awesome support build, one of my favorite go-to mechs)
Timberwolf: 2 LRM 20 + 4 MPL (a bit hot - my MVP of Tukayyid2)
Mad Dog: 6 x LRM5 + 5 ERML (favorite Mad Dog build so far, got lots of kills and KMDD's with it)
Mad Dog: 2 LRM20 + 5 ERSL (Ammo shortages but good)
Supernova: 2 x LRM20A + 2 x LRM15A + 4 SPL (newest, but absolutely brutal build)
Mauler: 2 x LRM15 + 6 Mediums (My only mech ever to brake 1000+ damage in a QP)
Highlander IIC: 2 x LRM20A + 3ERLL (came close to breaking 1000+ damage in QP, fell short at 980-ish)
Trebuche: 2 x LRM10 + 3 Mediums (Descent medium LRM boat with JumpJets)

Stop giving away our trade secrets!

[JediPanther]

Vellron2005, on 09 June 2017 - 04:36 AM, said:

You'd be surprised.. Sure, you can't out-brawl anyone, but on many many occasions have I used 3 medium lasers to chase off pesky lights.. I agree that 2 mediums aren't much, but in a pinch, its better than no backups.. And it might save you if you softened them up enough before they pushed you.. 3 mediums of 4 SPL is a minimum for me as backups..

It gets the message across, and the message is "oh you wanna dance? Let's dance!"

As I said, it's not meant to save you from a straight-up brawler like a Warhammer or Hunchback, but a Spider or Cheetah might think twice.. especially if you protect your rear..

For brawlers, if they manage to get close to you, you LURM'd wrong..

Yeah I agree with a lot of this. 2 mls really isn't much or 2 mpls but it still is some back up weapon. Since the cats are really meant for second line when they are lrm built it still gives you some way of defending yourself as well as some offensive ability. it the second video you'll notice I did blow off a tw's red leg and tried to get the other before team mate finished him. They were also key to fending off that ach as I had red ct. All the ach needed was one good shot and I've went down.

I could do a lrm build on the archer or mad dog but the clan mechs really bore me. Archer I don't see much difference in when I already have the cats and a few other meds and heavies that can lrm as well.

[MischiefSC]

A LRM boat without TAG to get its own locks and reap the benefits of the line of sight it should have every time it shoots is likely dead weight against anything but a given win of a match anyway.

As such a C4 would have room for 1 ML or MPL.

Which is a waste, you'll get more use out of another ton of ammo or more JJ.

[evilauthor]

Speaking as someone who has their own Catapult C4 and played it alot, I think I might recommend a few skill tree changes. I think the OP should dump the entire right side of the Firepower tree and devote all those skill points into the Survival tree. The reason I say that is because I don't think the right side of the weapons tree is really necessary.

My Catapult C4 carries a pair of LRM-15s too. When using those alone, I have more than enough heat sink capacity to keep up with the heat generated, and only start overheating when I start throwing my SRMs (I have an XL engine in my C4) too. The OP doesn't have SRMs. This means the right side Heat Gen nodes are superfluous; you can get by with just the left side ones.

Likewise, the Range nodes are also not necessary. Oh they're nice to have and you need to get SOME to get the nodes you really want. But at the end of the day, most of your LRMing should be done at far less than 900 meters anyway.

Cooldown nodes are useful. The more you get, the more frequently you can fire your LRMs and the better your DPS. But I find the base refire rate of LRM-15s already to be plenty fast enough for most battlefield purposes. You can do without the right side Cool Down nodes.

So, if you do remove all the right side nodes from the Firepower tree, what do you do with them? Throw them into the Survival Tree. Get every node you can that buffs Armor and Structure points. If you're like me and like to fight from the second line, then anything that increases your mech's survivability - and especially anything that prolongs keeping your arms where your LRM launchers are - increases your ability to dish out damage for longer.

Yeah yeah, I know I said my mech carries an XL engine that doesn't improve survivability. But you know what? 90% of my mech getting killed is due to CT destruction, and XL engines is no help there, so I might as well use an XL. Your experience may be different (because you're better at presenting your sides to return fire than I am), so I'm not recommending that you use an XL too.

Edit: Whoops, checked your loadout again and saw that you ARE using an XL engine.

Edited by evilauthor, 09 June 2017 - 10:47 PM.