44 replies to this topic

[El Bandito]

Inatu Elimor, on 10 June 2017 - 12:24 PM, said:

Assists and kills count too, even under 400 and loosing match to go up.

No, the match score must be 401 or above, regardless of kills/assists.

[Inatu Elimor]

El Bandito, on 10 June 2017 - 12:47 PM, said:

No, the match score must be 401 or above, regardless of kills/assists.

I agree to disagree.

[sub2000]

Inatu Elimor, on 10 June 2017 - 07:53 AM, said:

I' m about to enter tier 2 (bar past "minimize" ).Hooray ! Now same is happening when I transitioned from 4 to 3: things get suddenly alot tuffer. I notice I'm in groups that don' t knit tightly and don' t focus fire while the enemy does. The result: frustrating roll overs. Now has the matchmaker something to do with this?? It almost seems no coincidence. But Ala, it could be poor me (but there is a difference - no doubt).
I came to understand that tier 1 and 2 folks don' t get mixed up with tier 4 and 5. It suggests that my group is composed of inexperienced players vs. aces.
Give me your opinion plz.

I believe that MM does average tier matching, i.e. it combines available players with different tiers if the same tier is not available and does averaging tiersThe only real matching is the matching by mech classes. In all cases when I've seen our unit being very light or heavy the opposite side had same structure. The level of players is usually also comparable. In average. the problem is that averaging doesn't really work here.
So if I am in a tier 3-4 game I can expect same on the other side or a bunch of tier 5 and a couple of tier 1. (more probable). As the result game can go any direction.
You have real Motley Crue of people using amazing in their strangeness builds, having their good and bad days.
And don't forget martians of course.
I've just played with a dude who claimed playing since 2012 and demanded that we should spread far enough from each other so we won't stay on a way of each other and won't get killed in the same time. Unit got collapsed and killed of course.
I am really glad that this game has LFG and QP in a way it has.

Edited by sub2000, 10 June 2017 - 01:35 PM.

[Y E O N N E]

Inatu Elimor, on 10 June 2017 - 12:52 PM, said:

I agree to disagree.

You can't disagree, it's mechanical fact.

[Wintersdark]

G4LV4TR0N, on 10 June 2017 - 11:07 AM, said:

Matchmaker is optimized to get games faster, people who really want to play with Tier 1 groups should stick to Group Queue.

Wat? The group queue is the worst that way. While it technically has a matchmaker and uses PSR, populations are so low that it's purely random.

[Wintersdark]

Inatu Elimor, on 10 June 2017 - 12:52 PM, said:

I agree to disagree.

You can disagree all you want, but you're simply, flatly wrong and look foolish.

There's no voodoo here, there's fixed break points where ratings changes happen. It's 100% testable and demonstrable, and people have conclusively tested it. There's a thread with dozens of matches, and lots of people "agreeing to disagree" but yet 100% of match end submissions all show exactly the same results. Paul confirmed this as well, but this was something that the community "scienced" directly because PGI is notoriously wrong about their own game/bugs exist.

It's funny how somehow, people who feel those break points are somewhere else are curiously unable to get a screenshot of it happening. Ever.



See here: http://mwomercs.com/...-as-best-i-can/

Edited by Wintersdark, 10 June 2017 - 01:48 PM.

[Y E O N N E]

Alabaster Croft, on 10 June 2017 - 01:45 PM, said:

I just got to Tier 1 and it got a lot harder too. I am pulling good numbers but most of my teams are like derp and pull under a hundred. I can't carry every damn game.

Side note: I enjoy how two of the first five hits for "carry harder" on Google are from MWO. World of Tanks has the first hit, but only one. MWO is actually well represented for that query...

[G4LV4TR0N]

Wintersdark, on 10 June 2017 - 01:42 PM, said:

Wat? The group queue is the worst that way. While it technically has a matchmaker and uses PSR, populations are so low that it's purely random.

But this way you can control your own team.

[Innocent]

I wonder if they ever changed the bones of the matchmaker from the original ELO implementation. When they first started trying to make skill based matches the matchmaker would say, Ok I am going to make a high skill game. It would then pick the first 12 high skill players and then try to match 12 more against them. The result was the 12 best ended up on team 1 and then it would run out of players and take who was left for team 2.

[Angel of Annihilation]

Mister Glitchdragon, on 10 June 2017 - 11:38 AM, said:

I can't help but think there might be a little confirmation bias at work, here. If you kept records of your individual matches, I'm pretty sure you'd find that (by the time you were on the cusp of T1) instances when you performed above average and your team lost, as well as instances when you performed poorly (but not too poorly; under about 100 dmg and your PSR will "=") and your team still won are exceptions not the rule. We only remember those exceptional matches, though: when we got insta-gibbed out of the gate, or carried like a god but still couldn't bring in the win.

Chances are that chances are. After the number of games it takes to reach T1, statistical averages start to shake out. With the exception of those outliers mentioned above, when you perform well, your W/L will reflect this. But maybe the PSR system is more broken than I know. Are there many T1 players out there with underwater (under 1.00) W/L ratios?

No one is saying PSR is a perfect reflection of ability (unless of course someone in T1 is arguing with someone in T5, then it suddenly becomes a crucial point!) But I'd like to think PSR does indicate some understanding of the game. I just crossed into T2 last night, and I can safely say I'm a way better player than I was at T5.

Nope. I am literally just a couple skill ups shy of Tier 1, so much so that the bar is completely full and I can tell you without a shadow of a doubt that I had a match, just last night where I did something like 126 damage and got a skill up when my team won. I have had many games like there where you just find yourself in the wrong place at the wrong time and there is just nothing you can do to have a good match. I was serious about the story about the head shot to. Walked up the ramp, took an alpha right to my head in my Marauder and boom, down I went before I even fired a shot. Still got a skill up because my team won. Then all I have to do is score around a 500-600 damage game depending on the mech and even in a loss I generally get a skill up. This is why I feel it is kind of gimmicked to help people raise their PSR.

I mean l understand why when I hit 600-700 damage, 3-4 kills, etc, etc I still get a skill up. However, lets be honest here, if you can't at least punch out 200 damage, you shouldn't be getting a skill up even if your team wins because lets face it, below those levels, you have did nothing to to help your team win.

But then again what do I know. I happen to have about a 54% win rate so maybe that is a indication of my performance.

[Tier5 Kerensky]

Yeonne Greene, on 10 June 2017 - 01:48 PM, said:

Side note: I enjoy how two of the first five hits for "carry harder" on Google are from MWO. World of Tanks has the first hit, but only one. MWO is actually well represented for that query...

No, if you would hang around in my little pony forums and the phrase would be often used there, the hits for that forum would be higher. That's how search engines and specially google work, as google has omniscient present on most websites.

For me, the "carry harder" shows most results for various leagueoflegends sites, few youtube links, and so on. I don't even play that game though, but it's very popular. Don't even see any MWO related on first page.

[pyrocomp]

El Bandito, on 10 June 2017 - 08:44 AM, said:

It does get tougher, the higher you go. Technically you will still have noobs piloting bad builds in your queue even in T1, but the amount of players that actually can shoot straight increases.

This, however, does not automatically translate to the better situational awareness, manuevering and etc.
My impression is that with tier progression the ability of an average player to read the situation and execute anything but the direct deathball push degrades steadily. It's marvelously rare even to see a left-NASCARing...

[Mister Glitchdragon]

Viktor Drake, on 10 June 2017 - 10:46 PM, said:

I had a match, just last night where I did something like 126 damage and got a skill up when my team won. I have had many games like there where you just find yourself in the wrong place at the wrong time and there is just nothing you can do to have a good match... Then all I have to do is score around a 500-600 damage game depending on the mech and even in a loss I generally get a skill up.

Again, you are offering anecdotal evidence trying to contradict statistical reality. I'd measure by your average match score rather than individual low/high scores

Viktor Drake, on 10 June 2017 - 10:46 PM, said:

I was serious about the story about the head shot to. Walked up the ramp, took an alpha right to my head in my Marauder and boom, down I went before I even fired a shot. Still got a skill up because my team won.

Oh, I believe that you were head shot and died without firing a shot. Happens to everyone, if they play the game long enough. Your PSR didn't go up, though, even though your team won. Zero damage on a win should make your PSR "=".

Viktor Drake, on 10 June 2017 - 10:46 PM, said:

However, lets be honest here, if you can't at least punch out 200 damage, you shouldn't be getting a skill up even if your team wins because lets face it, below those levels, you have did nothing to to help your team win.

Not necessarily. If you're a slow assault at the back of the NASCAR circuit and the enemy spends the match trying to chew away at your rear, you might never get a chance to return fire effectively. But if your faster teammates are killing their slowest while you draw fire, you have done something to help your team win. Maybe not much, but something.

Viktor Drake, on 10 June 2017 - 10:46 PM, said:

I happen to have about a 54% win rate

Again, you have won more than you've lost over the hundreds of matches it took to get to T1. Sure, some small percentage of that is because a team carried you. But statistics don't lie, and you wouldn't have that W/L if you were an utter bad. Again, do you know of anyone whose made T1 with an overall underwater W/L?

Edited by Mister Glitchdragon, 11 June 2017 - 07:06 AM.

[vandalhooch]

Yeonne Greene, on 10 June 2017 - 01:48 PM, said:

Side note: I enjoy how two of the first five hits for "carry harder" on Google are from MWO. World of Tanks has the first hit, but only one. MWO is actually well represented for that query...

Google searches are personalized to your browsing habits. Not everyone will get the same results with that phrase. My first six links were to League of Legends followed by World of Tanks and World of Warships.

[Wintersdark]

Yeonne Greene, on 10 June 2017 - 01:48 PM, said:

Side note: I enjoy how two of the first five hits for "carry harder" on Google are from MWO. World of Tanks has the first hit, but only one. MWO is actually well represented for that query...

For Science, I did this.

My images results where mostly MWO screenshots and the Carry Harder image you posted, but the actual web links where all League of Legends and one World of Tanks for the first page. I had to go to page 3 to get an MWO result.

Mind you, I never make google searches for MWO or any other PvP game(I'm not interesting in any other PvP games), and I interact with these forums through a custom system so Google doesn't have much to do with that either, so my results are pretty "unbiased" if you will.

vandalhooch, on 11 June 2017 - 11:13 AM, said:

Google searches are personalized to your browsing habits. Not everyone will get the same results with that phrase. My first six links were to League of Legends followed by World of Tanks and World of Warships.

Exactly this.

[Angel of Annihilation]

Ok so Master Glitchdragon is right, you don't go up with only a small amount of damage done and a win. Had a storm hit and the power blinked out long enough for me to lose connection. By the time I got back in, I managed to do only 10 damage before my team won the match. Got the "=" sign for that one but that is kind of my problem with the PSR rating. A player who performed that poorly in a match should be seeing his PSR reduced, win or not.

As far as the difficulty going up, nah not seeing it. I just flipped over to Tier 1 about 10-15 matches ago and the matches don't seem to be any more difficult than before. Hell I was on a couple teams that played so badly I did a double faceplam. If anything the matches seem more chaotic with less coordination.

Anyway, I am now Tier 1, one of the Elite of MWO. Not that I actually believe that means anything whatsoever hehe.

[Kynesis]

Jman5, on 10 June 2017 - 12:23 PM, said:

Teams get a lot derpier on weekends.

My god the derp has been real this weekend. Even your average hardcore derp would have been better than what I saw.. I like to imagine that it's an influx of fresh new players who have never played any kind of PvP game before.

[Willard Phule]

Alabaster Croft, on 10 June 2017 - 01:45 PM, said:

I just got to Tier 1 and it got a lot harder too. I am pulling good numbers but most of my teams are like derp and pull under a hundred. I can't carry every damn game.

You're going to have to.

You see, one of the principles that MW:O was founded on is "the better you are, the more you must carry." Any illusion of any form of matchmaker is just that...an illusion.

Here's a handy hint: Don't ever get in front of a mech without custom paint. Sure, it may not be a trial mech...but you don't know that for sure unless the paint job has been changed. Let them be in front and use their armor before you use yours.

Kynesis, on 11 June 2017 - 06:09 PM, said:

My god the derp has been real this weekend. Even your average hardcore derp would have been better than what I saw.. I like to imagine that it's an influx of fresh new players who have never played any kind of PvP game before.

Welcome to Potato Warrior: Online during an event weekend. Events bring out the best play, ever.

[Mawai]

QuePan, on 10 June 2017 - 08:13 AM, said:

Match maker doesnt properly sort the teams . you can be the only tier 2 on team T5s going up against a team made up of tier 1 and 2s is what i've experienced with this system . , it just takes the players and tosses them on teams without looking at the fact that its a mismatch , you really should have a match maker at least sprinkle the Veteran players around the teams which it doesn't do by these experiences quite literally it just takes the players in queue and shoves them in spots to fill the sides . the issue is that if they do it how it should be done the veteran players will go back to whine about queue times which is why they made MM the way it is now .

Just curious .. but you know this HOW?

Did everyone honestly give you their tiers? Are you psychic and somehow know what tier they are in? Did you screenshot it, check forum posts and then find what tier for every player in the match?

If not .. then I am sorry to say you are just talking meaningless drivel.

The only real info we have on the solo queue match maker was from the Karl Berg thread (he was the Dev who wrote it) .. it is a bit old now and based on Elo ratings rather than PSR .. but the bottom line is that BS like tier 1,2 vs one tier2 and a bunch of 5s .. does NOT happen.

The issue is that if you throw a bunch of random tier 1,2 together you get a wide range of abilities
-some folks who got there playing LRMs,
-some with good situational awareness and contribute to team play
-some folks with incedible aim
-some folks who play snipers and hang back so they do lots of damage and are among the last to die
-some folks with time on their hands who played 5000 games


Then there are the really good team players with great situational awareness andexcellent aim who can survive and do immense damage. These ones are the "elite"

Anyway, the bottom line is that reaching tier1,2 is not a guarantee of "goodness" .. the behaviours you see are completely consistent with random groups of tier 1,2.

As for asking about controls ...
1) joke
2) newb on friends account
3) progression is really fast on the first 25 matches if you win consistently .. can end up high tier 3 at least very quickly
4) the only group that shouldn't see tier5 is tier1 .. but newbs can easily be tier3,4

[MOBAjobg]

Inatu Elimor, on 10 June 2017 - 12:52 PM, said:

I agree to disagree.

Please change your stance as the true fact does not support you.

Edited by MOBAjobg, 11 June 2017 - 09:09 PM.