105 replies to this topic

[UnofficialOperator]

Genuinely curious because I've been out for 7 months. Never been a light pilot much myself but been playing loads since I came back. Still pretty fun in the artic cheetah.

So what happened to the meta?

[Fox With A Shotgun]

UnofficialOperator, on 07 June 2017 - 05:02 AM, said:

Genuinely curious because I've been out for 7 months. Never been a light pilot much myself but been playing loads since I came back. Still pretty fun in the artic cheetah.

So what happened to the meta?

Nobody likes playing an undergunned, slow, oversized mech in the current meta. Unless you're either a masochist, or a true master of light mechs. Or both - there's no reason why the two are mutually exclusive!

[UnofficialOperator]

No one backstabs anymore?

[Fox With A Shotgun]

UnofficialOperator, on 07 June 2017 - 05:26 AM, said:

No one backstabs anymore?

Only LCTs and WLFs these days, and the occasional ACH. I play gunboat lights, so I'm not one of them

[B0oN]

UnofficialOperator, on 07 June 2017 - 05:26 AM, said:

No one backstabs anymore?

Most do the crotchcuddler ...

[ShoX]

Another problem is that the arguably best support light in the game, Purifier /w AMS arm, is a hero mech and clocks in at 10$.
I'm loving it, but I don't blame anyone who doesn't want to play support, pay the hero tax or both.

[Skanderborg]

There's almost no reason for me to take a Fire Starter or any other 35 tonner out over a medium mech now.

Edited by Skanderborg, 07 June 2017 - 05:57 AM.

[stealthraccoon]

I'm cruising in my quad-streak JVN as of late, but once I find the only light on the red team, I'm kinda done...

Now to be honest, I have seen more Commandos, Urbies and even Panthers, and that's a good thing! Rarely do I see the wait % in double digits.

[Ruar]

I bet it's a result of the free linebackers given out last week. People who like to play fast, hard hitting mechs are running linebackers instead of lights. Once the shiny wears off they'll go back.

[Paigan]

I see a ACH or LCT in every match.
Also Spider, Panther, Jenner, Raven.
Every match.

Sometimes, I even drop in one of my gunboat Adders ("Tiny Assault") and do quite well.

I don't know why not more people play them.

[Weeny Machine]

UnofficialOperator, on 07 June 2017 - 05:02 AM, said:

Genuinely curious because I've been out for 7 months. Never been a light pilot much myself but been playing loads since I came back. Still pretty fun in the artic cheetah.

So what happened to the meta?

If you see a light mech it is usually a 20-30t mech. There is a reason for that. The 35t mechs are huge and so easy to hit that their size negates to a large extend the advantage of speed and agility. The latter is lacking anyway regardless of their size because they still cannot stay out of the firing arc of heavies and assaults for a meaninfgful time (85t like a Battlemaster which invested in Mobility tree are frikkin prima balerinas).

The question is, why should you play a light mech, especially an oversized 35t mech, which only advantages of speed and agility are pretty much negated or insufficient to begin with while sacrificing firepower/big alphass, armour, structure and heat disipation, (often) range?
Actually none because all lights can do, fast mediums can do as well but better.

And all this just because some heavy or assault pilots think that they should auto-win vs a light mech and throw a trantrum when they got shot down

Edited by Bush Hopper, 07 June 2017 - 06:19 AM.

[Ruar]

Bush Hopper, on 07 June 2017 - 06:18 AM, said:

If you see a light mech it is usually a 20-30t mech. There is a reason for that. The 35t mechs are huge and so easy to hit that their size negates to a large extend the advantage of speed and agility. The latter is lacking anyway regardless of their size because they still cannot stay out of the firing arc of heavies and assaults for a meaninfgful time (85t like a Battlemaster which invested in Mobility tree are frikkin prima balerinas).

The question is, why should you play a light mech, especially an oversized 35t mech, which only advantages of speed and agility are pretty much negated or insufficient to begin with while sacrificing firepower/big alphass, armour, structure and heat disipation, (often) range?
Actually none because all lights can do, fast mediums can do as well but better.

And all this just because some heavy or assault pilots think that they should auto-win vs a light mech and throw a trantrum when they got shot down

And yet.... a lot of people think lights are still very strong. I think the problem is the smaller ones you talk about are actually OP and need to be more like the bigger lights.

Lights go plenty fast enough. The problem is the OP ones let you get away with things that lights aren't really supposed to do . The balanced lights then get played incorrectly and people feel like they are too slow and not agile enough.

[Weeny Machine]

Ruar, on 07 June 2017 - 06:23 AM, said:

And yet.... a lot of people think lights are still very strong. I think the problem is the smaller ones you talk about are actually OP and need to be more like the bigger lights.

Lights go plenty fast enough. The problem is the OP ones let you get away with things that lights aren't really supposed to do . The balanced lights then get played incorrectly and people feel like they are too slow and not agile enough.

I think I know what you are referring to: locust and commandos tiny size.
I agree with you there. There seems to be also hitreg problems because they can tank damage like pros when they are moving.

ACHs and other 30t mechs, I think they are fine for drive-by shooting and (second-rate) sniping. Especially the ACH lives and dies by his ECM. However, as soon as you try to brawl it gets ugly because, as I said above, the heavies and most assaults have still an easy time to track you.

The 35t...also as I pointed out already, are in a sorry state. I cannot understand the hype about the Wolfie. It is a mediocre mech. I can do well with it, too, as I can with most light mechs. However, how much effort I have to put in it and how easy I get the same performance from e.g. a heavy mech is unreal. That's no balance.

[G4LV4TR0N]

ShoX, on 07 June 2017 - 05:53 AM, said:

Another problem is that the arguably best support light in the game, Purifier /w AMS arm, is a hero mech and clocks in at 10$.
I'm loving it, but I don't blame anyone who doesn't want to play support, pay the hero tax or both.

"Arguably"? Then where's the argument?

Quote

Top 20 Clan Mechs used: ARCTIC CHEETAH ACH-PRIME 45,585

Edited by G4LV4TR0N, 07 June 2017 - 06:42 AM.

[Ruar]

Bush Hopper, on 07 June 2017 - 06:38 AM, said:

I think I know what you are referring to: locust and commandos tiny size.
I agree with you there. There seems to be also hitreg problems because they can tank damage like pros when they are moving.

ACHs and other 30t mechs, I think they are fine for drive-by shooting and (second-rate) sniping. Especially the ACH lives and dies by his ECM. However, as soon as you try to brawl it gets ugly because, as I said above, the heavies and most assaults have still an easy time to track you.

The 35t...also as I pointed out already, are in a sorry state. I cannot understand the hype about the Wolfie. It is a mediocre mech. I can do well with it, too, as I can with most light mechs. However, how much effort I have to put in it and how easy I get the same performance from e.g. a heavy mech is unreal. That's no balance.

The Wolfie is really just a sniper/skirmisher and it can excel in that role.

Lights take a lot of skill to use, and each chassis fills a different role. Additionally they are very dependent on team performance, similar to assaults. I assume people use the locust/commando/ACH and then get upset when the other lights don't perform as well. Kind of like playing a Kodiak and wondering why you don't get the same score in a Stalker.

i think they really need to do a balance pass on lights. Focus more on roles for each chassis, ensure there are rewards based on that role, ensure the mech can perform the role, and have some text in the game explaining that role. Once expectations are mitigated some then I doubt we would see so many light pilots complaining. As it stands it seems most light pilots want to run around being nearly untouchable while doing 600-700 dmg per match. (I'm not saying this is you, just a summary of threads I've been reading over the past six months).

[stealthraccoon]

I'm hoping for a pass on classic lights, but mostly for hard point inflation:
Locust V series - 2 more ballistic points
Commando- each needs an additional weapon point
Spider - both D and K needs 2 CT energy and V should have one E on each arm.
Panther - not much can be done, perhaps E points in CT in conjunction with M points?
Raven - HGN needs either 2 B or 2 M, 2X another M too.

[Jiang Wei]

There is no meta in pugs.

[Xiphias]

Ruar, on 07 June 2017 - 06:23 AM, said:

And yet.... a lot of people think lights are still very strong. I think the problem is the smaller ones you talk about are actually OP and need to be more like the bigger lights.

Lights go plenty fast enough. The problem is the OP ones let you get away with things that lights aren't really supposed to do . The balanced lights then get played incorrectly and people feel like they are too slow and not agile enough.

There are plenty of people in this game with opinions who have no idea what they are talking about. I wouldn't put too much weight into the complaints I hear.

I see the complaint that lights are too strong primarily from pilots who don't play lights. Looking at the leaderboards I don't see a single season where you've played in lights. I'd recommend trying to play lights for a a while and seeing how you feel about them afterwards. The Locust is a pretty cheap investment. Lights look a lot more OP when you aren't actually playing them because most of the lights that still play consistently have learned what not to do to avoid dying really quickly.

The problem is that the role of lights has been encroached by new chassis. The Viper is arguably the best "light" mech in the game with its speed, jumpjets, agility, weapon loadout, and armor. In a 1v1 the Viper can beat pretty much any light and can play pretty much the same role that lights play. For the slower lights like the Adder and the Kitfox the Linebacker pretty much makes them obsolete. The Lineback is just as fast, basically as agile, packs way more armor, and has better firepower. Barring tonnage restrictions and personal preferences, why would anyone take an Adder over the Linebacker?

The Firestarter is as big as a medium, less agile than some mediums, and has the armor of a light. Why would anyone take it over something like the Viper or the Ice Ferret?

The agile mechs that you mention are far from OP. The Locust is still a glass cannon that's basically a 1 shot kill with most mechs. With its reduced agility it really isn't that hard to hit with direct fire weapons and if players are having a hard time hitting it they can always take streaks and 1-2 shot it without any skill required. Players that can aim well don't have a problem and players that can't aim that well can always take streaks. Lights are the only class with a weapon that is basically designed to be a hard counter.

The Commando benefits from having Locust level agility, arms that shield well (and damage transfer reduction), and really good structure/armor quirks that when stacked with the tree make it really tanky (probably tankier than a light has rights to be). The problem with the Commando is that it's pretty limited in its weapons and a lot of the hardpoints are in the arms which are easy to blow off.

Lights should be agile and hard to hit because that's the role they play in this game. If you nerf them to the point where they are weaker mediums people are just going to play mediums instead. Anyone who thinks lights are OP should be forced to play in nothing buy lights for a month to get a feel for what it takes to put up good numbers in a light. It's far easier in heavy.

Lights are underplayed because they require more effort to get results and because as a class they consistently underscore all other classes. Just sort the leaderboards by match score and select different weight classes to see this.

[UnofficialOperator]

Right, thanks for the replies guys. Maybe I'll look into fast mediums soon and see which mech I can pick up.

[G4LV4TR0N]

Quote

For the slower lights like the Adder and the Kitfox the Linebacker pretty much makes them obsolete. The Lineback is just as fast, basically as agile, packs way more armor, and has better firepower. Barring tonnage restrictions and personal preferences, why would anyone take an Adder over the Linebacker?

Because when you score 1500 damage in Adder or Kit Fox you're somebody. And when you score it in Linebacker you're just another nameless pilot.