14 replies to this topic

[Jman5]

With the recent removal of Escort mode due to a game-breaking bug, I think it's a perfect time for PGI to spend a little time improving the game mode before releasing it back to the players.

Here are some of the problems as I see it with the game mode and ways you could improve it without completely redoing the game mode from the ground up.

1. Time

So the way the game mode works you're given a 15 minute clock just like the other game modes, but that clock is absolutely meaningless because the VIP will escape in 8-10 minutes. This leads to many games where the attackers will just sit around and blow the clock because they don't realize how much or little time they have until it's almost too late.

Replace the clock with a bar indicating how much time is left, or adjust the game clock to accurately reflect just how much time the attackers have before they lose. Plus I'm sure you guys can have it so it re-calculates extraction time for edge cases where the VIP gets legged.

I think having a clock that's counting down to the point of extraction would give attackers a more appropriate sense of urgency. The voiceover guy isn't enough.

2. VIP location

Another problem I commonly see is that many teams simply don't know where the VIP is for 90% of the match. While you could make the argument that this is a player-problem, I see it so commonly in the solo queue that I think it's worth changing.

One way to address this is to break up the VIP path into navpoints. When the VIP arrives at these points it will let the attackers know. This will give players a general idea where the VIP is without providing real time info.

3. VIP Route

I've talked about issues for the attackers, but there are also issues for defenders. For example it would be immensely helpful if the defenders knew the route the VIP was going to take from the start. This would allow them to contest the right beacons and be able to move ahead of the VIP with confidence that he wont suddenly turn 90 degrees straight into the enemy forces.

On top of this, it would help educate the players about what the routes are so that when they are defense they know to look down these paths.

4. Beacons

First of all, there is annoying bug where it cancels my progress if a second guy shows up mid-way through. Please fix this.

More importantly, I think beacons are too powerful. It's almost impossible to flip a point when an LRM mech is within 900 meters because it provides vision. I think a more balanced idea would be to simply change it to an ECM/Counter-ECM beacon. Friendlies get ECM, enemies get jammed.

Would also be interesting if the Turrets respawned every time the ownership switched.


At the end of the day what I think makes people hate this game mode so much is the frustration it causes when your team just allows the enemy team escape or kill the VIP without doing anything. By providing more information to the players on both sides, I believe you will get more action around the VIP, and less moments where you want to scream at your team for just letting the other team win unchallenged. Particularly in the Solo queue which represents the majority of your games.

Edited by Jman5, 10 June 2017 - 12:20 PM.

[Y E O N N E]

Jman5, on 10 June 2017 - 12:14 PM, said:

1. Time

So the way the game mode works you're given a 15 minute clock just like the other game modes, but that clock is absolutely meaningless because the VIP will escape in 8-10 minutes. This leads to many games where the attackers will just sit around and blow the clock because they don't realize how much or little time they have until it's almost too late.

Replace the clock with a bar indicating how much time is left, or adjust the game clock to accurately reflect just how much time the attackers have before they lose. Plus I'm sure you guys can have it so it re-calculates extraction time for edge cases where the VIP gets legged.

I think having a clock that's counting down to the point of extraction would give attackers a more appropriate sense of urgency. The voiceover guy isn't enough.

You can win the mode without destroying the VIP or getting it to the dust-off site, though. If the timer runs out before it reaches the dust-off, attackers win. Are you suggesting they remove that condition, so the mode is only over when the VIP is dead or safe?

[Tarl Cabot]

Quote

2. VIP location

Another problem I commonly see is that many teams simply don't know where the VIP is for 90% of the match. While you could make the argument that this is a player-problem, I see it so commonly in the solo queue that I think it's worth changing.

One way to address this is to break up the VIP path into navpoints. When the VIP arrives at these points it will let the attackers know. This will give players a general idea where the VIP is without providing real time info.

There is a reason for the beacons and the flipflopping them and the ECM for both beacons/VIP. As an example Alpine is one map where the attackers pin themselves down at the Dominion spot. No one scouts and/or does not rely information then realize too late the VIP is on the other side of the map.

Quote

3. VIP Route

I've talked about issues for the attackers, but there are also issues for defenders. For example it would be immensely helpful if the defenders knew the route the VIP was going to take from the start. This would allow them to contest the right beacons and be able to move ahead of the VIP with confidence that he wont suddenly turn 90 degrees straight into the enemy forces.

On top of this, it would help educate the players about what the routes are so that when they are defense they know to look down these paths.

From #2 - adding Navpoints - I believe there should be more than one navpoint.The first navpoint being traveled to would be indicated 15-30secs after the drop. But also set it up so after the 1st navpoint, the VIP AI makes a decision for the next navpoint.

Hmm, how many Pickup spots were there per map?

[Jman5]

Yeonne Greene, on 10 June 2017 - 12:22 PM, said:

You can win the mode without destroying the VIP or getting it to the dust-off site, though. If the timer runs out before it reaches the dust-off, attackers win. Are you suggesting they remove that condition, so the mode is only over when the VIP is dead or safe?

Prior to the bug that made PGI remove it from the rotation, the VIP would always get to the extraction point well before the 15 minute clock hits zero. The point I was making was that the default clock we have now in Escort is absolutely meaningless at best, and misleading at worst. They should change the clock to actually reflect how long the team has until the VIP gets to the extraction.

[Davegt27]

I would like to see PGI try a few things first before throwing the whole mode into the trash can

for example project the VIP route out one grid square

give the VIP a LRM 5 (more of an harassment thing then killing)

we try to tell them the Long Tom should be limited to components or damage

[Tarl Cabot]

Yeonne Greene, on 10 June 2017 - 12:22 PM, said:

You can win the mode without destroying the VIP or getting it to the dust-off site, though. If the timer runs out before it reaches the dust-off, attackers win. Are you suggesting they remove that condition, so the mode is only over when the VIP is dead or safe?

Isnt that one of the bugs though, the VIP getting stuck? Or had the VIP been legged, making it move even slower than the crawl?

[Khobai]

if they just gave the VIP more rear armor and some defensive weapons it would help a lot

[TheArisen]

Some good ideas worth trying.

[evilauthor]

No no no. Obviously, the VIP should be a guy riding back seat in one of the defending mechs. If that mech dies, the VIP ejects and you have a little human figure running around the battlefield until either a) one of the defending mechs picks him up, or one of the attacking mechs guns him down or steps on him.

Okay, so how do you prevent the defending team from just rushing to the pick up point? Well...

1) The VIP always starts in the defending mech with the most armor and least speed.

2) The mech carrying the VIP will only get the next immediate nav point, not the final one.

3) The route and the pickup point dynamically change throughout the match. If the pick up point by coincidence already has attacking mechs in it but no defending mechs, the defenders will get a message saying the LZ is too hot and to move on to the next one, which will inevitably be far away.

[Y E O N N E]

Jman5, on 10 June 2017 - 12:33 PM, said:

Prior to the bug that made PGI remove it from the rotation, the VIP would always get to the extraction point well before the 15 minute clock hits zero. The point I was making was that the default clock we have now in Escort is absolutely meaningless at best, and misleading at worst. They should change the clock to actually reflect how long the team has until the VIP gets to the extraction.

I've won a few by legging it late and running the clock down. So, that clock isn't quite absolutely meaningless, just usually meaingless.

I don't care if they change the win condition such that the VIP has to either escape or die, just...be accurate.

[Johnny Z]

This is one of the modes I actually am not happy with.

I disagree with the complaints about the faction play modes and almost every other complaint about anything, but I have to agree here.

Its not bad it just doesn't work very well as a quickplay mode as everything currently stands.

Player VIP is the way to go here. Other games are doing it, that's my opinion anyway.

Or maybe it can be improved.

Edited by Johnny Z, 10 June 2017 - 01:42 PM.

[Y E O N N E]

Johnny Z, on 10 June 2017 - 01:40 PM, said:

This is one of the modes I actually am not happy with.

I disagree with the complaints about the faction play modes and almost every other complaint, but I have to agree here.

Its not bad it just doesn't work as a quickplay mode as everything currently stands.

Personally, I only have two complaints about the mode, and they are somewhat situational:

1. Those turrets are murder to Light 'Mechs. 10 points off a single section at minimum for each one you approach, and the map is stupidly choked off with active turrets. Makes scouting hard to do.

2. The ECM flags, on certain maps, compel you to stand there and get pounded by LRMs until it flips. It also removes the need for scouts for the defenders, because they know immediately where the enemy is.

I think having ECM all over the field is interesting, I just don't think it should have defenses or an early warning system. This is one of two game modes (the other being Invasion) where dedicating 'Mechs to go find the enemy is useful, and you can't really do it well because of those two points.

[Johnny Z]

Yeonne Greene, on 10 June 2017 - 01:45 PM, said:

Personally, I only have two complaints about the mode, and they are somewhat situational:

1. Those turrets are murder to Light 'Mechs. 10 points off a single section at minimum for each one you approach, and the map is stupidly choked off with active turrets. Makes scouting hard to do.

2. The ECM flags, on certain maps, compel you to stand there and get pounded by LRMs until it flips. It also removes the need for scouts for the defenders, because they know immediately where the enemy is.

I think having ECM all over the field is interesting, I just don't think it should have defenses or an early warning system. This is one of two game modes (the other being Invasion) where dedicating 'Mechs to go find the enemy is useful, and you can't really do it well because of those two points.

This is one of those things that players cant judge very well. Because metrics like total wins and such things are unknown.

Interesting what happens. It is a change in game play and that's good even if it isn't a favourite for everyone.

Edited by Johnny Z, 10 June 2017 - 02:21 PM.

[Mcgral18]

I'd say remove the Atlas entirely

Make it a invulnerable, heavily armored APC
Make it move only when an ally is within a given radius (across a pre determined, preset route)

That removes the condition of the Very Important Potato rushing a firing line, and staring the entire time, ending the game in 30 seconds or less without any intervention available



That makes it a much more traditional Payload game type.
And as you say, give the preset route to the defending team.

Two big issues resolved. APC can have HP, I guess. As a smaller target, it would be harder to hit, and easier to body block.

[Jman5]

Mcgral18, on 10 June 2017 - 02:40 PM, said:

I'd say remove the Atlas entirely

Make it a invulnerable, heavily armored APC
Make it move only when an ally is within a given radius (across a pre determined, preset route)

That removes the condition of the Very Important Potato rushing a firing line, and staring the entire time, ending the game in 30 seconds or less without any intervention available

That makes it a much more traditional Payload game type.
And as you say, give the preset route to the defending team.

Two big issues resolved. APC can have HP, I guess. As a smaller target, it would be harder to hit, and easier to body block.

Yes, what you suggest would be the way I would do it too if I was redoing it from the ground up. I'd change VIP to a vehicle too, though I like the idea of a train. The railtracks on the map would provide intuitive paths. You could alter the track at certain beacons to take it down an alternate trackline.

There is a lot I would do differently if we could completely redesign this game mode. The suggestions in the OPP are what I feel are more realistic solutions to improve the existing game mode.