92 replies to this topic

[kapusta11]

Cause if they do they will be inferior to AC20, especially when you can use the latter with LFE. Since PGI can't be bothered to implement crit splitting for big weapons shouldn't Heavy Gauss and IS LB20X take one less slot?

Thoughts?

[cazidin]

PGI will do neither of these things.

Just use a standard engine.

[El Bandito]

kapusta11, on 11 June 2017 - 05:46 AM, said:

Cause if they do they will be inferior to AC20, especially when you can use the latter with LFE. Since PGI can't be bothered to implement crit splitting for big weapons shouldn't Heavy Gauss and IS LB20X take one less slot?

Thoughts?

I've been championing for 9 crit slot LB20X. And even then it will be inferior than PPFLD AC20.

[kapusta11]

El Bandito, on 11 June 2017 - 05:52 AM, said:

I've been championing for 9 crit slot LB20X. And even then it will be inferior than PPFLD AC20.

I dunno, maybe give LB20X bonus crit damage?

[oldradagast]

El Bandito, on 11 June 2017 - 05:52 AM, said:

I've been championing for 9 crit slot LB20X. And even then it will be inferior than PPFLD AC20.

If the IS LBX's don't follow the pattern of the LB10X vs. the AC10, they will be completely useless. That doesn't mean it won't happen, but I hope PGI understands that even though the LB10X weighs 1 ton less, takes up 1 less crit slot, produces 1 less heat, and might have a faster firing rate (it did at one time), it is still considered inferior to the AC10. So, the other's in the LBX series need to follow the same pattern to have any hope of being used. Even then, they'll mostly only see use on specialty builds or ones that really need the 1 extra ton or crit slot for some reason.

[Acehilator]

oldradagast, on 11 June 2017 - 05:54 AM, said:

If the IS LBX's don't follow the pattern of the LB10X vs. the AC10, they will be completely useless. That doesn't mean it won't happen, but I hope PGI understands that even though the LB10X weighs 1 ton less, takes up 1 less crit slot, produces 1 less heat, and might have a faster firing rate (it did at one time), it is still considered inferior to the AC10. So, the other's in the LBX series need to follow the same pattern to have any hope of being used. Even then, they'll mostly only see use on specialty builds or ones that really need the 1 extra ton or crit slot for some reason.

Yeah, I really hope PGI will move away from the TT values for the remaining LB-Xs sizes, it would be a shame if they miss that opportunity. Chances of PGI going full PGI... well, fingers crossed.

[oldradagast]

Acehilator, on 11 June 2017 - 05:59 AM, said:

Yeah, I really hope PGI will move away from the TT values for the remaining LB-Xs sizes, it would be a shame if they miss that opportunity. Chances of PGI going full PGI... well, fingers crossed.

It is funny since one of few vast differences from lore that they got right was the LBX change. Ok, they aren't perfect, but they'd be utterly useless without ammo swapping if left at their tabletop values. Having done it right once on the LB10X, hopefully they'll just keep following that trend. You never know, of course... ugh.

[Ced Riggs]

Sarna says:

LBX-20 Tons Clan = 12^[3]
IS = 14^[4] Critical Slots Clan = 9^[3]
IS = 11^[4]

Heavy Gauss Rifle Tons 18^[2] Critical Slots 11^[2]

So far, things use up slots and tonnage according to Sarna/TT.

LBX-10 (for reference) Tons Clan = 10^[2]
IS = 11^[3] Critical Slots Clan = 5^[2]
IS = 6^[3]

AC-10 (for reference) Tons 12^[1] Critical Slots 7

[FupDup]

kapusta11, on 11 June 2017 - 05:53 AM, said:

I dunno, maybe give LB20X bonus crit damage?

The LB 20-X is totally good, guise. It does extra critical damage!

[RaptorRage]

Seems unlikely they would alter the tonnage and crits away from the normal values as it would just lead to slippery slope arguments of people wanting to tweak the size and weight of other weapons.

[Sjorpha]

I'd be very surprised if PGI starts messing with crits and weight of equipment, that seems to be a taboo.

They should definitely allow themselves to tweak that for balance, but I don't think they will.

So LBX20 is going to need something very significant to be a good weapon. No ghost heat seems like a given, but even then the spread damage is so inferior. You could give it very good velocity and range, or very short cooldown for superior DPS. Lot's of ways to do it without messing with the slots/tonnage. Whatever the advantage is it has to compensate both for the spread disadvantage and the need to take a bad standard engine.

Also consider that the regular ISAC20 is currently a bad weapon, so if the LBX20 is equally good as the AC20 it will still be bad. Hopefully they will buff the regular AC20 to be good as well.

Edited by Sjorpha, 11 June 2017 - 07:34 AM.

[Khobai]

Quote

Will Heavy Gauss And Is Lb20X Take 11 Crit Slots?

I hope so. Having to take STD engines will help prevent heavy gauss from being abused. Last thing we need is crap like dual heavy gauss, dual PPC doing 70 PPFLD. Which is exactly what would happen if you could take heavy gauss with XL.

Quote

The LB 20-X is totally good, guise. It does extra critical damage!

Not only that, but it spreads out so you dont even have to aim.

Quote

Also consider that the regular ISAC20 is currently a bad weapon

regular ISAC20 is not a bad weapon. its not a top tier weapon by any means but its certainly not bad either. Its better than the CUAC20; THATS a bad weapon.

Edited by Khobai, 11 June 2017 - 07:46 AM.

[l33tworks]

kapusta11, on 11 June 2017 - 05:53 AM, said:

I dunno, maybe give LB20X bonus crit damage?

Or maybe, just give it more damage? I know it sounds crazy but it is possible for an lb20x to do 22 damage.

[Y E O N N E]

Sjorpha, on 11 June 2017 - 07:34 AM, said:

Also consider that the regular ISAC20 is currently a bad weapon, so if the LBX20 is equally good as the AC20 it will still be bad. Hopefully they will buff the regular AC20 to be good as well.

May not be quite so bad with LFE, since it can fit with one of those. Also waiting to see what they do with the reworked lasers, that might also change the equation considerably.

[Khobai]

AC20 doesnt need a buff. Its fine. Its not a bad weapon if you use it on the right mechs.

Its mostly other weapons like clan gauss, cerspl, and ISLPL that need nerfs.

CUAC20 needs a buff though. That gun is horrible. It gets none of the advantages of an AC20 with all of the downsides.

Quote

Or maybe, just give it more damage? I know it sounds crazy but it is possible for an lb20x to do 22 damage.

It already gets bonus damage, at least to internal structure.

The main issue with the LB20X other than crit slots is going to be the spread. The skill tree needs to give a bigger bonus for LBX spread. The current bonuses are garbage.

Edited by Khobai, 11 June 2017 - 07:56 AM.

[Andi Nagasia]

im really hoping they dont, my bet is they will take up 10Crits,
11 slots would force them to only STs and STD engines, never i feel is stong enough to warrent use in that case,

[Khobai]

Quote

11 slots would force them to only STs and STD engines

Thats a good thing for heavy gauss. heavy gauss should stay at 11. We dont need 65-70 point PPFLD retardedness because people can take XL/LFE, dual heavy gauss, and two PPCs or one heavy PPC. Limiting heavy gauss to STD engines helps prevent that.

I could maybe see LBX20 going down to 10 though.

Edited by Khobai, 11 June 2017 - 07:55 AM.

[Andi Nagasia]

Khobai, on 11 June 2017 - 07:53 AM, said:

Thats a good thing for heavy gauss. heavy gauss should stay at 11. We dont need 65-70 point PPFLD retardedness because people can take XL/LFE, dual heavy gauss, and two PPCs or one heavy PPC. Limiting heavy gauss to STD engines helps prevent that.

perhaps but Heavy Gauss should have medium range, but fall off sooner than most weapons,
its only 25damage up close, and at longer ranges drops,
(From My Topic on Possible New Tech Stats)

Andi Nagasia, on 14 March 2017 - 11:52 AM, said:

Light & Heavy Gauss,
Light-Gauss/Heavy-Guass
Lighter Gauss version for weight and space Saving,
Heavier Gauss version for Damage and Power,
-
Weapon,...........Damage,..Heat,..Charge,..Cool-down,..Range,..Max Range,..Tons,..Crit*,
Lighter Gauss,........8...........1........0.5.............3.............720..........1440...........12.......5...
Heavy Gauss,........25..........2........1.0............4.5...........240...........720............17......10...
(Heavier Gauss has less Range but a X3 Max Range instead of X2, to give it its TT Feel)
(Stats of Heavy Gauss have been reduced, -1Ton(5.5%) & 1Crit(9%) for more Viability)

Khobai, on 11 June 2017 - 07:53 AM, said:

I could maybe see LBX20 going down to 10 though.

i agree, fullly, though im hoping they use the LBX10 formula for all LBX, -1Ton -1Crit vs IS-ACs

Edited by Andi Nagasia, 11 June 2017 - 08:02 AM.

[Y E O N N E]

Khobai, on 11 June 2017 - 07:53 AM, said:

Thats a good thing for heavy gauss. heavy gauss should stay at 11. We dont need 65-70 point PPFLD retardedness because people can take XL/LFE, dual heavy gauss, and two PPCs or one heavy PPC. Limiting heavy gauss to STD engines helps prevent that.

I could maybe see LBX20 going down to 10 though.

You wouldn't be able to feasibly do that even if it were smaller due to tonnage. This is IS tech.

[kapusta11]

Khobai, on 11 June 2017 - 07:53 AM, said:

Thats a good thing for heavy gauss. heavy gauss should stay at 11. We dont need 65-70 point PPFLD retardedness because people can take XL/LFE, dual heavy gauss, and two PPCs or one heavy PPC. Limiting heavy gauss to STD engines helps prevent that.

I could maybe see LBX20 going down to 10 though.

Dual Heavy Gauss and dual PPC? That's 55 tons and 33 slots with 5t ammo and no additional heatsinks. Nightstar with STD250 and endo steel upgrade will have only 53 tons of pod space and 33 slots, you'll have to remove 64 armor from somwhere to fit such a loadout. That's a joke build.

Plus, Heavy Gauss is expeced to deal full 25 damage only up to 180m (TT stats) which makes it a short range weapon, that expodes and performs much worse at long range than other weapons of the same weight.