25 replies to this topic

[Snowbluff]

LordNothing, on 11 June 2017 - 10:14 PM, said:

of course in living legends and almost every other mechwarrior game for that matter there is this thing called passive radar. living legends is a place where only noobs, lermers and people with ecm use active sensors.

Yeah and it makes no ******* sense at all. It's super unrealistic.

Edited by Snowbluff, 12 June 2017 - 01:37 PM.

[LordNothing]

Snowbluff, on 12 June 2017 - 01:37 PM, said:

Yeah and it makes no ******* sense at all. It's super unrealistic.

it made perfect sense. this comes from submarine warfare. everything is passive, but if you want to detect an enemy submarine that is running silent, you need to ping, this gives away your position in the process. same thing goes for radar cross section on stealth fighters. last thing you want to have is a big radar giving away your position. passive radar simply detects radar emmissions and triangulates their position for you only using a passive antennea. your gps does this when it shows you the actual position of the sattelites in the sky. it doesn't talk to the satellites, it doesnt transmit, it just receives their timeing data so the unit can trilaterate its relative position. passive sensors are even used by soldiers in the field, ever heard of the mk1 eyeball? its a sim feature!

ok according to some of the books ive read, battlemechs use infrared, radar, and magnetic sensors. your heat level should in theory light you up on infrared. firing alphas one after another should bring every lerm within a thousand meters to your position. radar will light you up when you are transmitting, such as sending targeting information to missiles or pinging to extend your radar range. if the missiles could track targets on their own they would be fire and forget and are dependant on course updates from your mech's targeting computer. as for magnetic, hard to fool but inverse square law means they are short range. mechanics wise passive radar makes you harder to detect and harder to detect others (reduced radar range). you also dont get free info sharing you do in mwo. pressing r is not enough you have to be in range of a c3 mech (or be one) to share data.

of course this works in living legends because narc and tag are very powerful. not the slight augments they are in mwo. tag literally laser guides missiles to where its pointed without a lock on the part of the lermer. narc is the same thing, but sticks. its nice to fire lerms in the general direction of a narc beacon, and this works from passive radar, lock not required. line of sight and active radar is required for self lock. lerms take on a whole different role that complements the sensors, infotech, scouting, light mechs, etc. this things all die under pgi's locking implementation and lerms get relegated to the noob weapon they are.

Edited by LordNothing, 12 June 2017 - 02:10 PM.

[AncientRaig]

LordNothing, on 12 June 2017 - 02:01 PM, said:

it made perfect sense. this comes from submarine warfare. everything is passive, but if you want to detect an enemy submarine that is running silent, you need to ping, this gives away your position in the process. same thing goes for radar cross section on stealth fighters. last thing you want to have is a big radar giving away your position. passive radar simply detects radar emmissions and triangulates their position for you only using a passive antennea. your gps does this when it shows you the actual position of the sattelites in the sky. it doesn't talk to the satellites, it doesnt transmit, it just receives their timeing data so the unit can trilaterate its relative position. passive sensors are even used by soldiers in the field, ever heard of the mk1 eyeball? its a sim feature!

ok according to some of the books ive read, battlemechs use infrared, radar, and magnetic sensors. your heat level should in theory light you up on infrared. firing alphas one after another should bring every lerm within a thousand meters to your position. radar will light you up when you are transmitting, such as sending targeting information to missiles or pinging to extend your radar range. if the missiles could track targets on their own they would be fire and forget and are dependant on course updates from your mech's targeting computer. as for magnetic, hard to fool but inverse square law means they are short range. mechanics wise passive radar makes you harder to detect and harder to detect others (reduced radar range). you also dont get free info sharing you do in mwo. pressing r is not enough you have to be in range of a c3 mech (or be one) to share data.

of course this works in living legends because narc and tag are very powerful. not the slight augments they are in mwo. tag literally laser guides missiles to where its pointed without a lock on the part of the lermer. narc is the same thing, but sticks. its nice to fire lerms in the general direction of a narc beacon, and this works from passive radar, lock not required. line of sight and active radar is required for self lock. lerms take on a whole different role that complements the sensors, infotech, scouting, light mechs, etc. this things all die under pgi's locking implementation and lerms get relegated to the noob weapon they are.

I might not like every aspect of Living Legends, but it does do a great job of making infotech, sensors, scouting and heat actually relevant.

[Maurice Thorez]

I totally agree that in theory CB LRM fire should be a thing in Battletech and/or Mechwarrior. I mean, CB artillery fire was already getting quite precise and effective by the First World War. Something that makes a great deal of noise when firing, probably disperses heat from the tubes, and has a very obvious trajectory that can be tracked would be a prime target for CB fire. The Battletech universe, as many here know though, has no pretense to keeping to what should be practical with remotely modern military equipment. MWO perfectly demonstrates this. Thermal vision greatly diminishing in effectiveness from 500m+ and not being influenced by how hot the mech is running is case and point.

From a gameplay standpoint though, I cannot see how CB LRM fire would be a very fun mechanic in most instances. Indirect LRM fire already infuriates a decent portion of players. It is not a stretch to say even more indirect LRM fire would not be well received.

Also, as others have pointed out, LRMs really do not need another nerf.

Edited by Maurice Thorez, 12 June 2017 - 05:24 PM.

[Mystere]

Brain Cancer, on 11 June 2017 - 10:30 PM, said:

Yes. Let's take a system where it warns you every time someone fires at you, leaves a massive trail in the air to follow, and has multiple hard counters ANOTHER issue.

Because it'll be -fun-.

El Bandito, on 11 June 2017 - 10:39 PM, said:

Are you suggesting more nerfs to one if the least efficient weapon system?

Just make it fair. Make mechs light up on radar when they fire ANY type of weapon.

Well, long ago we did have Bitchin' Betty warn players whenever they were targeted. The trolling that ensued was absolutely so hilarious.

But, some killjoy jackwagons decided to ruin our fun. <smh>

Edited by Mystere, 12 June 2017 - 06:25 PM.

[chucklesMuch]

Why do we need more counters? We already have rocks/really big trees/hills/buildings/cliff faces/sand dunes/snow mounds... and all the the other stuff....sub optimal weapon system is already pretty trashy...