5 replies to this topic

[Barkem Squirrel]

Just how satisfying would it be to trip that darn locust just to pop him as he gets up? Or the Arctic cheetah's.

We we use too way back in open beta. It was nice, keep lights in check, but enter dragon bowling. It could be used for nefarious purposes.

Even Paul had issues one day.



Just think do we want this feature back or would it detract from game play.

[Kalimaster]

Oh I could get a few "kicks" out of it.

[Wintersdark]

Barkem Squirrel, on 12 June 2017 - 01:49 PM, said:

Just how satisfying would it be to trip that darn locust just to pop him as he gets up? Or the Arctic cheetah's.

We we use too way back in open beta. It was nice, keep lights in check, but enter dragon bowling. It could be used for nefarious purposes.

Even Paul had issues one day.



Just think do we want this feature back or would it detract from game play.

It's likely never coming back because there are severe issues with how the game engine works.

In a nutshell, what you see - that is, where mechs are at any instant in time - is NOT where they "actually" are (according to the server) at that time. Ping time causes this. We don't suffer problems from that because of HSR: As long as you can hit a mech where your client things it is, then you can shoot it.

The downside is, in an extreme case shooting at a target, you can hit a target after he's gotten into cover. Of course, in your client, you're hitting him just before he gets to cover, but from his perspective he's already in cover. This isn't really an issue, and it's only in extreme edge cases where you can notice it happening. It allows us to not have to "lag shoot" : shooting ahead of a mech's apparent position because that's where it actually is according to the server - something we used to have to do back in the pre-HSR days. Hence terms like "lag shields".

How does this relate to collision based knockdowns?

I'm glad you asked!

You're in a Locust, screaming towards an Executioner. You aim to pass close in front of him, and loop around. You do, too; there's clearly room in front, and you miss him entirely - hell, you've got it on video, there's definitely space and you didn't hit him!

Except from the server's perspective, that Executioner is two meters further forward. WHAM! You collide with the Executioner, and fall down. This is not a good gameplay experience: You piloted around the Executioner, you clearly didn't hit him, but the server says you did and now you're lying on your back in a Locust with an angry executioner pointing 50 SPL's at your face.

Oh, but wait! The wierdness isn't done. Where is your mech laying down? Where you where from your perspective, where you where from the Executioner's perspective, or where you where from the server's perspective? All three of these positions are different. This means, once you fall, your fallen mech is going to need to jerk to a different position either from the pilot's perspective, or from other player's perspective (or both, if it falls to where the Server believes it is). This effect can be seen in laggy situations by mechs rubberbanding around. Normally, HSR allows this to be compensated for so it's not visible unless there's server issues or really extreme lag (>400ms ping) but it doesn't help with collisions, as WHERE your mech falls down is critically important. In the HSR case, your mech is still moving, so the time:position issue matters less. With knockdown, falling down out of LOS or in LOS is HUGELY important.

So: No, you're likely never going to see collision based knockdown, and indeed it's why we only have extremely minor collision based damage.

[Damnedtroll]

Wintersdark that's a really good and sad explanation... i wan't my Axeman

[Barkem Squirrel]

Perfect Wintersdark

Still it was fun while it lasted running jenners and ravens with the lag shield with no fear of an entire firing line. I just thought some of the newer players need to know what we had to go through. The game to me is better without the knockdowns/ bowling.

[m]

Weapon recoil displaced on the target mech (not the source mech doing the initial firing) is the most appropriate solution. For example, a 30 damage volley slowing a mech down by 30 kph would work well on the ground or in the air. No reason a mech should continue floating or walking forward consistently after being hit either in the air on on the ground. They should get pushed in the direction of the volley fired upon them.

We've had long drawn out discussions about collisions and knock downs in the past, because if you remember in the original games firepower knock downs were the way to slow those lights/mediums down. The weapon recoil solution I mention above is the best way for today.

Here's a couple links that discusses Weapon Recoil that somewhat got lost, buried and forgotten about over time.

https://mwomercs.com...-weapon-recoil/

https://mwomercs.com...64#entry4677664

Edited by m, 13 June 2017 - 12:18 AM.