26 replies to this topic

[BlueStrat]

Well, it's been a few weeks since the new skill tree hit.

I actually kind of like it, but it needs to be streamlined quite a bit. Others have suggested basic templates and that sounds good.

However, after spending hours and hours skilling-up a half-dozen of my 27 'mechs, I'm low on XP/GXP/HSP/SP/CB/WXYZ to fully skill-up another of my formerly-elited 'mechs. (Note, I *did* do my homework and wasted very little SP/HSP/XP/GXP/CB from the "refund".)

Combined with having to click my way through seemingly-endless trees, I've just settled on playing these half-dozen 'mechs and (sadly) just leaving the rest alone. I also have 4 empty mechbays that I now have no ambition to fill. My play-time has also taken a hit. One gets bored playing the same 6 'mechs all the time, especially when every time I select a different 'mech, I have to look at all the 'mechs I own and ground the upgrades for once already that I'll have to re-grind all over again and likely take even longer in the new system.

So currently, that's 21 formerly-elited 'mechs that got played fairly often, and 4 empty mechbays that are now sitting unplayed/unused and likely to stay that way for a while.

GG

Edited by BlueStrat, 14 June 2017 - 08:58 PM.

[Helsbane]

I've called it the Skill Jungle from the day it went live. We went from an oversimplified and pointless skill system to an overcomplicated system that sucks to do over, and over, and over, and over.....

Annihilator and Nightstar had me grabbing my wallet. The skill jungle made me put it right back down.

[BlueStrat]

Helsbane, on 14 June 2017 - 09:04 PM, said:

I've called it the Skill Jungle from the day it went live. We went from an oversimplified and pointless skill system to an overcomplicated system that sucks to do over, and over, and over, and over.....

Annihilator and Nightstar had me grabbing my wallet. The skill jungle made me put it right back down.

The other thing that struck me was that the refund plus whatever I had on hand when the skill tree hit was only enough to fully-skill less than ten 'mechs, or roughly one-third, of my formerly-'elited' 'mechs. That means the grind has been lengthened considerably.

Why do game companies *always* fall back to increasing the grind? Don't they get that increasing the grind is the major reason why I and many others stopped playing the *last* game we used to enjoy and spend money on?

[Kiiyor]

I like it.

I like the added depth, even if there's too much of it.

I think some of the trees still need work, and I'd like to see bonuses increase as you dive deeper into a tree (to reward specialisation a little more), but on the whole I've been pleasantly surprised - probably because I don't feel any particular urge to skill every mech in my garage in one go like so many people seem to want to do. Pick a mech, spec a mech, play the mech.

[Dee Eight]

I did all the PTS's for it so I have no problem navigating it. Of course I'm also from the era they taught with puzzles in schools still so its pretty damn easy to me. I've finished ninety-one'ing about a hundred mechs so far.

[radiv]

BlueStrat, on 14 June 2017 - 09:41 PM, said:

The other thing that struck me was that the refund plus whatever I had on hand when the skill tree hit was only enough to fully-skill less than ten 'mechs, or roughly one-third, of my formerly-'elited' 'mechs. That means the grind has been lengthened considerably.

Why do game companies *always* fall back to increasing the grind? Don't they get that increasing the grind is the major reason why I and many others stopped playing the *last* game we used to enjoy and spend money on?

To master a mech you used to have to get 3 of the same mech and then use like 18million on modules. So tell me how is the grind increased??????

[Gwahlur]

OP, you've done something wrong. You should have enough to master all your mechs and then some

[Chuck B]

Over all I like the ST, but I still think it needs refinement. mostly in the weapons and armor trees. Also the costs bug me. I'm a vet player so I have a good amount of gsp and gxp to work with, but I am lacking on c-bills. If I was a new player the ST grind would be a big turn off. I'm trying to see what its like for newb's by Skilling up a new mech using only its own XP and its taking forever im on week 3 with my Grasshopper 5P. and only have 60ish nodes unlocked. and I'll be honest, I did cheat at first with buying 10 or so nodes in operations to help with its heat issues.

[Shifty McSwift]

Chuck B, on 14 June 2017 - 11:42 PM, said:

Over all I like the ST, but I still think it needs refinement. mostly in the weapons and armor trees. Also the costs bug me. I'm a vet player so I have a good amount of gsp and gxp to work with, but I am lacking on c-bills. If I was a new player the ST grind would be a big turn off. I'm trying to see what its like for newb's by Skilling up a new mech using only its own XP and its taking forever im on week 3 with my Grasshopper 5P. and only have 60ish nodes unlocked. and I'll be honest, I did cheat at first with buying 10 or so nodes in operations to help with its heat issues.

But did you just forget how long it took you to buy your first modules and master your first mechs in the old system? I am not entirely FTP, and that grind was massive, the overall total costs of the skill tree are vastly less than the module system.

[Chuck B]

Shifty McSwift, on 15 June 2017 - 12:29 AM, said:

But did you just forget how long it took you to buy your first modules and master your first mechs in the old system? I am not entirely FTP, and that grind was massive, the overall total costs of the skill tree are vastly less than the module system.

No not really, I was/am a scrooge player. dependent on the mech, I could master in about 10 days (all 3) and I normally switch my modules around to the mech I was using so I never bought more then 1 of any module and only had a hand full of weapons modules (I got 1000 gsp)

If they dont make the ST cheaper, I hope they give New player some GSP (50ish) to start with after they complete training.

One of the biggest groan worthy aspects of the ST is most of the mechs I skilled during the first 3 days after the ST was released Im having to go back and re-skill them quite a bit, So instead of just spending 91 skill points on a mech Im spending more like 125-150 depending on how bad my original layout was. it does take awhile to get a basic understanding of it and so your probably going to screw up af ew builds and need to re-spec them.

Edited by Chuck B, 15 June 2017 - 12:49 AM.

[Shifty McSwift]

Chuck B, on 15 June 2017 - 12:49 AM, said:

No not really, I was/am a scrooge player. dependent on the mech, I could master in about 10 days (all 3) and I normally switch my modules around to the mech I was using so I never bought more then 1 of any module and only had a hand full of weapons modules (I got 1000 gsp)

If they dont make the ST cheaper, I hope they give New player some GSP (50ish) to start with after they complete training.

One of the biggest groan worthy aspects of the ST is most of the mechs I skilled during the first 3 days after the ST was released Im having to go back and re-skill them quite a bit, So instead of just spending 91 skill points on a mech Im spending more like 125-150 depending on how bad my original layout was. it does take awhile to get a basic understanding of it and so your probably going to screw up af ew builds and need to re-spec them.

So it's the XP cost you find makes the grind time longer? To me that is fine, previously we would end up with way too much mech specific XP and nothing to spend it one, while desperately scraping out enough GXP to get the initial modules (including the 15k + pilot/consumable modules) that gave such nice bonuses.

This ended up with everything being far too expensive in C-bills and GXP, putting the grind to start on both of those resources, now the start grind is more based on mech specific XP, again, to me that is a plus.

In terms of giving new players GSP, there is no need, GSP is a finite resource given to players who had older purchased modules, New players only have to deal with mech XP and GXP, and the conversion of those to SP. So in that case, giving GXP and c-bills would make more sense, and have the same effect.

[BlueStrat]

radiv, on 14 June 2017 - 11:09 PM, said:

To master a mech you used to have to get 3 of the same mech and then use like 18million on modules. So tell me how is the grind increased??????

Because what I received as a refund was not anywhere near enough to skill-out the 'mechs I had *already* "elited" prior to the ST. If that holds true that the amount you ground previously is not enough to bring your 'mech back to fully-skilled, meaning you need to grind more for the same 'mechs, then the grind has increased, right?

The worst part about having to re-grind the majority of my previously-elited 'mechs is that I don't start out with any of the progress I'd achieved, I have to take out a nearly-stock (ST-wise) 'mech and grind it back up. Many of these 'mechs I sweated bullets to get elited, and it feels like all that effort was a total waste.

Meh, I'll just play the half-dozen 'mechs I've been able to afford to upgrade and managed to tolerate sitting through the maddening click-fest that is the ST. They want the 'mechs sidelined so bad, fine. They can collect digital rust as hangar-queens. Too bad I started to skill-out my 'mechs methodically and didn't choose according to the "desert island" rule. I would have skilled-out more mediums and heavies if I'd known I was only going to be able to play 6 'mechs out of my 27, but now I'm assault-heavy.

Edited by BlueStrat, 15 June 2017 - 01:39 AM.

[Gwahlur]

BlueStrat, on 15 June 2017 - 01:23 AM, said:

Because what I received as a refund was not anywhere near enough to skill-out the 'mechs I had *already* "elited" prior to the ST.

You've done something wrong. You've gotten enough HSP for each of your mastered mechs to bring them back to mastered level.

Edit: I see you're talking about elited mechs, not mastered. Well yeah, to go from elited to mastered you still need more xp, just like before.

Edited by Gwahlur, 15 June 2017 - 01:28 AM.

[Shifty McSwift]

BlueStrat, on 15 June 2017 - 01:23 AM, said:

Because what I received as a refund was not anywhere near enough to skill-out the 'mechs I had *already* "elited" prior to the ST. If that holds true that the amount you ground previously is not enough to bring your 'mech back to fully-skilled, meaning you need to grind more for the same 'mechs, then the grind has increased, right?

The worst part about having to re-grind the majority of my previously-elited 'mechs is that I don't start out with the progress I'd achieved, I have to take out a nearly-stock (ST-wise) 'mech and grind it back up.

Meh, I'll just play the half-dozen 'mechs I've been able to afford to upgrade and managed to tolerate sitting through the maddening click-fest that is the ST. They want the 'mechs sidelined so bad, fine. They can collect digital rust as hangar-queens.

Yeah because playing without a full skill tree is a ridiculous concept that no one should ever have to endure. /s

Everyone can and should at times at least be fine playing a mech without any skills, firstly for testing purposes of their base rates and performance and secondly because if inexperienced noobs have to do it (same as before with modules), then you as an experienced player should have zero issues with it.

[BlueStrat]

Shifty McSwift, on 15 June 2017 - 12:29 AM, said:

But did you just forget how long it took you to buy your first modules and master your first mechs in the old system? I am not entirely FTP, and that grind was massive, the overall total costs of the skill tree are vastly less than the module system.

Then please explain why my refund did not come anywhere near covering the costs to skill-out my previously-elited 'mechs if that's true? Help me out here.

[Scyther]

BlueStrat, a bit of confusion. You say you had your mechs previously 'elited' and yet also say they were 'fully skilled' and didn't receive enough HSP to fully re-skill them.

A mech that reached 'elite' skill level in old system was not 'fully skilled'. A fully skilled mech was Mastered, with the extra module slot unlocked. That represented the maximum function that could be added to that mech.

A mech that reached 'elite' (all 2nd tier skills purchased), was given 53 or so HSP to purchase skills with. That is roughly equivalent to purchasing the same amount of 'function' as an elite mech had from it's prior skills. If you reached elite before, then you still had to 'grind' another 21,500 XP to 'master' it, thus that additional 'grind' is still in front of you. Exactly as before.

A mech that was 'mastered' previously was given 91 HSP in the new system, which is enough to fully skill out a mech in new tree. If your mechs were actually 'fully skilled' before (ie. mastered) then they have the HSP for a full set of skills now, no grind needed. (Until you want to change something, which again, is just like it was before.)

[Shifty McSwift]

BlueStrat, on 15 June 2017 - 01:47 AM, said:

Then please explain why my refund did not come anywhere near covering the costs to skill-out my previously-elited 'mechs if that's true? Help me out here.

the relative scale of reward there depends on whether you are also incorporating modules.

Ignoring modules, both pilot, weapon and mech; the skills you received from "elited" mechs, (which is what, the first set of bonuses? or the second? if its the second, then you may as well have mastered them), were pretty much the buffs given now in the mech operations tree and the mobility tree, the first level of skill buffs from the previous system was equal to about 10 points worth of buffs in the mobility and operations trees now, the second rank boosts that by about 10 in each again.

If you include modules, then again, are you forgetting the GXP and C-bill cost attached to unlocking the modules you originally needed?

[BlueStrat]

Shifty McSwift, on 15 June 2017 - 01:35 AM, said:

Yeah because playing without a full skill tree is a ridiculous concept that no one should ever have to endure. /s

Everyone can and should at times at least be fine playing a mech without any skills, firstly for testing purposes of their base rates and performance and secondly because if inexperienced noobs have to do it (same as before with modules), then you as an experienced player should have zero issues with it.

I played ALL my 'mechs without skills (or Basic) once already when I elited nearly all of them (had a couple 'orphans'...gift/prize-'mechs mostly) the first time, how many times do you expect people to grind the same grind without saying something, FFS?

("Elited"/"Mastered", whatever. They had gold wings, fully-upgraded)

Edited by BlueStrat, 15 June 2017 - 01:59 AM.

[Scyther]

If they were fully upgraded before, then they received 91 HSP to purchase a full set of skills now. How are they not getting enough HSP to fully re-skill?

Edit: Like Ced says below, all my mastered mechs each received 91 HSP individually, plus any extra XP they had earned as 'historic XP' for that mech. I then received some 3,800 GSP which can be spent on any mech ever, and about 380,000 or something GXP which can also be used to purchase SP for any mech ever.

There won't be any grinding (for XP at least) for a long while. If ever. C-bills, now, that's a different matter...

Edited by MadBadger, 15 June 2017 - 02:17 AM.

[Ced Riggs]

BlueStrat, on 15 June 2017 - 01:57 AM, said:

("Elited"/"Mastered", whatever. They had gold wings, fully-upgraded)

Again, because this is important.

When you click on mech X (which you had golden winged, aka mastered (elite's the step before that, with the last unlock missing), and click on "ADD SP" in the top right corner, do you see the 91 HSP on the lower part of the left side of the sources? Because, that is where the previous unlocks went.

I hope to **** you didn't use your GSP (general SP) which can be used for any mech, and did indeed use your HSP (historic skill points) which can only be used on that chassis. Because if you did, man, that's halfways on you. Threads' been going up and down, videos on every major channel, and news posts by PGI.

For example, I came into the update with all my mastered mechs ready to be mastered again, PLUS 2500 GSP PLUS ~500,000 GXP. That gave me enough to master the previous ones and another ~35 mechs on top of the ones I already had mastered.