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#41 cazidin

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Posted 13 June 2017 - 02:14 PM

View PostRestosIII, on 13 June 2017 - 01:14 AM, said:

What really shocks me is that PGI has never worked on doing banner ads on websites. One of the most basic ways of advertising on the internet, but nope. Only explanations I've got for the lack of advertising is that they don't have an actual marketer/advertisement manager employed, or that they believe they're a niche enough game that the players they have now will be the best they're gonna get, so they want to work on player retention.


All good points but wasn't the Steam release SUPPOSED to expand their playerbase beyond this niche? In fact, how can one ever break out from the niche market if they don't advertise?

#42 Angel of Annihilation

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Posted 13 June 2017 - 02:43 PM

View PostNovember11th, on 13 June 2017 - 02:06 PM, said:

Mwo is built for and only advertised too hardcore battletech nerds.

PGI has yet to do any actual or real mainstream advertising, aside from the 2009 trailer that was for a completely different game called the mechwarrior reboot.

Youtube trailers are not enough.
You MUST do ACTUAL marketing and paid advertising to actually gain mainstream recognition.



Actually your not correct at all. The Hardcore Battletech Nerds were the founders like me and way back in closed beta, PGI announced that they had decided that the founders didn't matter because we weren't the demographic they were trying to appeal to. They lost a ton of the lets call them "Backers" that were looking for a true Battletech experience out of the game.

So sorry, your wrong, this game isn't built for the Hardcore Battletech Nerds, not even close. Most of us wanted MW:LL to be honest only with better quality graphics, more stability and updated game play.

#43 Mawai

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Posted 13 June 2017 - 03:05 PM

View PostPaigan, on 13 June 2017 - 06:47 AM, said:

Wow.
I'm usually writing long posts myself, but this one is not worth reading in the full (only skimmed it) and here is why:

Short answer:

1.)
The buckets vs population argument is the one ALWAYS brought up by PGI on such requests. Even if you were right, if it is their answer, then they themselves say that the population is too low and that makes them more less obliged to do something about it.

2.)
Only a quick example: Map selection.
One could easily make a quickplay queue for each map. Say a quickplay "planet", including a little indicator for how close the current planet is to reach a full drop. Like CW used to be, but simpler, because quickplay has no factions. You want to play Terra Therma, you select the Terra Therma "planet" (or whatever). If the population is big enough, it will fill. Maybe not with a wait time of < 1 second like on the Canyon Network "planet", but in a reasonable time. You just want a quick game or lost patience waiting for terra therma: Canyon Network planet it is.
Or say 4 "planets" with one map each to choose from and the maps cycle through. The first always having a popular map, the other three having the other maps.
It won't make the matchmaker any more complex, it's just 4 buckets instead of one.
But nope, can't do it. Must be one singular queue. Why? Population count. Every time.



Ok. I agree with an infinite population you could have any number of specific queues for specific conditions. However, you only picked maps.

How about maps x game modes x stock x is vs is, clan vs clan, clan vs is, mixed - these are just the ones you listed.

15 x 5 x 2 x 4 = 600 different queues based on your idea.

So now folks can choose multiple subsets of each varying by player and a matchmaker is looking for 24 players that fit one set of launch conditions - map, mode, custom vs stock, opponents - this is in addition to selecting players with comparable PSR AND matching by weight class.

24 players x 600 queues = ~15,000 players just to get ONE game going under each launch condition ... and that is without PSR or weight class matching.

Fundamentally you are absolutely correct, with enough players you could do anything. However, realistically, MWO will NEVER have enough players to customize queues to the extent you suggest with any sort of reasonable wait time or player skill matching.

In addition, it is technically much easier to constrain the QP queue only by weight class and PSR.

Anyway, the bottom line is that only PGI has any real idea of the numbers of players of MWO. I think they should make more efforts at recruitment and retention ... even if just a few banner ads on gaming sites ... assuming the return/cost ratio is reasonable ... but MWO will never have the population to have the kinds of queue splitting that you seem to envisage.

#44 JC Daxion

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Posted 13 June 2017 - 04:22 PM

View PostViktor Drake, on 13 June 2017 - 02:43 PM, said:



Actually your not correct at all. The Hardcore Battletech Nerds were the founders like me and way back in closed beta, PGI announced that they had decided that the founders didn't matter because we weren't the demographic they were trying to appeal to. They lost a ton of the lets call them "Backers" that were looking for a true Battletech experience out of the game.

So sorry, your wrong, this game isn't built for the Hardcore Battletech Nerds, not even close. Most of us wanted MW:LL to be honest only with better quality graphics, more stability and updated game play.



(victor, please don't take this whole post as directed at you.. It is more of a general post about what you posted about.. ok? :) )



You know it's funny how many people call themselves hardcore battletech nerds, yet point to previous BT games like Mech warrior 3 which was extremely flawed and broken. (though a fun game if you could deal with the bugs, and didn't mind restarting missions)

Mech 4 fixed a bit, but still had issues, the biggest one being a race to assaults. Heck even with all the mektek packs adding tons of stuff they didn't really do anything to address the core issues with the game, and many of the add ons just made um worse.

Mech commander 1, was fun, but you could easily break the campaign with a few key salvages, or just confuse the AI or pull cheap tactics with mine layers and such.

Mech 2 was a bit easier over all, and worked well. But again you could simply confuse the enemy AI if you wanted to. I thought balance was a bit better too if you kept away from the all the cheap exploits. Mech commander 2 was the most polished/balanced of all the old titles IMO. At least you could control the AI's a bit, unlike what could be asbolutly stupid pilot action in mech 4. Though that game you could just own everything yourself, so they were more fodder anyway.

That is not to say they all weren't fun games, But come one be real here. This version is basically balanced better than any of the previous titles, and has far few bugs over all. From at least the pvp and balance stand point. (mech 4 wasn't to bad on the bug issue) I do think this game could do better with maps. I recall some of the very mountainous maps in Mech 4 as being really great. But this game is more of the arena shooter. How you going to please? Every time they release a large map half the population says they are to big.. and small map, half say its to small. It's a no win situation with everything in the game.


To me this population has a huge issue with What they wanted the game to be, and what it is. That is where the problem is. I see people bring up MWLL all the time like it's the greatest thing since sliced bread. It's really not. It is neat for what it is, and has it's fans, but so does morrowwind and no one would say, release that game today as is and it would be a total hit. If this game had that games level of polish i would hate to see the reaction from this crowd.


To me the biggest issue this game has is the player base. Like many games previous that were driven into the ground because people couldn't deal with decisions. I hope that does not happen here, and with single player and BT coming i think they are growing, not shrinking despite the negative responses from some.


Just take the Clan autocannon as a tiny example. There are still people loosing their minds that the clan AC isn't worth using even if it is just a place holder. So many things in this game are like that too. Makes me sad that folks can't just enjoy what we have. A pretty darn fun mech arena shooter. Best arena shooter on the market IMO, which is why i play.


this game reminds me a lot of some great games i saw go under.. and years later i talk to someone about how great they are. I get a blank look and people saying really? I heard nothing but bad things about it so i never bothered. It's really why i stopped listening to any internet rhetoric in the first place. After avoiding mass effect 3 for years.. (never got around to playing any of them actually) but i just kept putting it off because i rarely saw anything positive about it. I finally played and thought.. Wow people said this was the worst game ever because they didn't like the art direction the game took in the last 15 mins of a 100 hour trilogy.

It's ok that a game doesn't live up to all your expectations. Is it fun to play though, play it, if not i can only hope folks find something they like. But honestly i find that less likely. Steam is a perfect example because you can stalk people! :) Read a negative comment, then click on their profile and see what they actually like, or how they act on other games forums. More often than not some nerd rage hating on a game is a trend no mater what game they are talking about.. Even games they put 1k's of hours in get thumbs down and worse game ever if a patch hits they don't like.

this game has thousands of players.. If they all posted about it on their FB's, twitters, what ever.. maybe folks might find it fun. I'm sure tons of the players have kids, why aren't they playing it? Want to grow a game, kids is how you do it. They are typically more forgiving about short comings when it comes to lore as well.. So win/win right? :)


as always, Happy gaming

#45 Nameless King

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Posted 13 June 2017 - 05:33 PM

View PostSunstruck, on 13 June 2017 - 01:09 AM, said:

Then why doesn't PGI do more promotional videos and advertisements.

What if, instead of "merging buckets" as the answer to low population with CW, PGI decided to "find new players". It would have helped the quality of the MWO experience don't you think?


CW is the problem, get rid of it and focus on QP which is far more popular.

Also RANDOM MAPS AND MODES

#46 Vellron2005

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Posted 14 June 2017 - 02:32 AM

I've actually stated that PGI needs to invest in marketing ALOT more on many many occasions..

I find it illogical that a game that wants to be an E-sport does not invest heavily into marketing..

I'm from Croatia, and have never even seen a banner or commercial for MWO, while World of Tanks commercials appear on TV all the time, and it's banners litter the news portals.

I've recently recommended MWO to one of out major news portal's Esport sections.. hope they like it and take to it..

Edited by Vellron2005, 14 June 2017 - 02:32 AM.


#47 El Bandito

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Posted 14 June 2017 - 05:39 AM

View PostJackalBeast, on 13 June 2017 - 09:14 AM, said:


OMG dont even start on DOW3... that game broke my heart.


Mine too, since I own and love the previous two and all their expansions.

#48 MT Slayer

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Posted 14 June 2017 - 05:44 AM

View PostViktor Drake, on 13 June 2017 - 02:43 PM, said:



Actually your not correct at all. The Hardcore Battletech Nerds were the founders like me and way back in closed beta, PGI announced that they had decided that the founders didn't matter because we weren't the demographic they were trying to appeal to. They lost a ton of the lets call them "Backers" that were looking for a true Battletech experience out of the game.

So sorry, your wrong, this game isn't built for the Hardcore Battletech Nerds, not even close. Most of us wanted MW:LL to be honest only with better quality graphics, more stability and updated game play.

Amen to that brother <S>

#49 ShoX

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Posted 14 June 2017 - 05:44 AM

There better be some ads on Movie sites when Pacific Rim 2 comes around...

#50 Clownwarlord

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Posted 14 June 2017 - 05:53 AM

THINGS PGI USE TO DO: As in they do not do them anymore.
-Dev Diary

- New Mech Videos (not cockpit and not struting videos but videos like this)

or

- New Maps
- Ask The Devs

- MWO Weekend Updates

- Dev Vlog

- Town Halls


All those use to be done on a more steady bases but hasn't been done in a long time ...

Oh wait they did make one video for ... wait ... what!?!?! The urbie hero got a video and that is it ... not the wolf hound, panther, or any others just the urbie ...



Yeah PGI needs to do more publicity to get new players because currently it is word of mouth from a shrinking community.

Edited by Clownwarlord, 14 June 2017 - 05:53 AM.


#51 Novakaine

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Posted 14 June 2017 - 07:51 AM

View PostZigmund Freud, on 13 June 2017 - 01:07 PM, said:

That's not the same. If tanks are ment to attract new players - this intention is doomed if new players are welcomed by a stomping.


As a avid tabletop player I'm gonna argue that one.
Some of the armored vehicles in tabletop are just plain nasty.
You can read up on them in sarna.
I'd pay hard currency to drive a behemoth battletech in this game.
I'm sure most of the rest of us would.
But instead of being a naysayer let's get them thru door first.
Then fix that problem.
If there is one.


#52 Splatshot

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Posted 14 June 2017 - 08:11 AM

View PostJC Daxion, on 13 June 2017 - 04:22 PM, said:



. If they all posted about it on their FB's, twitters, what ever.. maybe folks might find it fun. I'm sure tons of the players have kids, why aren't they playing it? Want to grow a game, kids is how you do it. They are typically more forgiving about short comings when it comes to lore as well.. So win/win right? Posted Image




I tried to get my kid to play, however as soon as you make a group of Two you get stuck in the group Que, the Que where players know what they are doing at a higher level than normal.

So my kid gets killed in nothing flat and no longer wants to play.

Only way was to have him play by himself, and that kind of ruins the idea and so we go play WoT or AW, or some other F2P game where you do not get punished for trying to play with a friend.

#53 Medicine Man

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Posted 14 June 2017 - 08:14 AM

I think the reason the game has such a low population is that it has no word of mouth. I'm not very happy with the game or PGI and so I can't really imagine recommending it to people.

Actually I am kind of ok with the game. It's PGI I don't like and the various "currencies" they use to establish XP and CB. I also hate their reliance on mech sales to stay alive. They spend so much time designing mechs they forget to make new maps and new game modes. Also FP never really turned out to be what I wanted. As a soloist I'm pretty much out of gas unless I randomly drop with a good group. Mostly I drop against large premade groups with a pug and it's over in 5 minutes 48-12. Screw that.

PGI can advertise all they want and it won't help. The inactive playerbase is much larger than 17k. But they don't want to play this game and the reason is that it doesn't offer much but repetitive gameplay, unbalanced matches and a lot of ridiculous cash grabs. 1000 MC just for one color of paint?! What the crap?!

MWO has some really great moments but they are almost inspite of the game instead of because of it. The mech vs mech combat is actually pretty good but the team vs pug stuff is completely screwed. With the way the game is currently set up there is no real fun in being a soloist. You either join a group or you spend most of your time getting beaten and it sucks.

#54 Zigmund Freud

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Posted 14 June 2017 - 09:00 AM

View PostNovakaine, on 14 June 2017 - 07:51 AM, said:

As a avid tabletop player I'm gonna argue that one.
Some of the armored vehicles in tabletop are just plain nasty.
You can read up on them in sarna.
I'd pay hard currency to drive a behemoth battletech in this game.
I'm sure most of the rest of us would.
But instead of being a naysayer let's get them thru door first.
Then fix that problem.
If there is one.

True. Still, I don't see how bigass tanks can be implemented smoothly. Like you know this trafic jam on the beginning of a match? Now imagine same but with less manuverable and flatened down tanks. And imagine jumping on top of them. unless a proper collision damage is implemented - it's going to be stupid.

#55 Bud Crue

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Posted 14 June 2017 - 09:07 AM

View PostZigmund Freud, on 14 June 2017 - 09:00 AM, said:

True. Still, I don't see how bigass tanks can be implemented smoothly. Like you know this trafic jam on the beginning of a match? Now imagine same but with less manuverable and flatened down tanks. And imagine jumping on top of them. unless a proper collision damage is implemented - it's going to be stupid.


Wait a sec...would that allow, say a Dire Wolf, to jump on to a hover tank moving at...oh 5 times the Dire's speed in the manner of a skateboard? If so, then I say, bring on the tanks. Bring them NOW.


#56 Yellonet

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Posted 14 June 2017 - 09:17 AM

MWO is a solid shooter, it's actually really good if you isolate the combat mechanics.
The main problem with the game is balance, not just between mechs, but between teams.
In most people's mind a fun game where both sides get equal chances to win, where the match is even and where every player gets to shine.
This is all but impossible in MWO because of how the game modes work.
For comparison:

Counter-Strike give balance and chance to shine to the players by playing a match in rounds so that you can get more than one chance to do your thing and to balance the match so that the teams switch sides after a set amount of rounds. This way the map and weapons doesn't have to be balanced perfectly against each other because both teams will have access to them in turn.

Battlefield balances things and creates fun gameplay with respawns, having a large map and object-based gameplay where the battle flows back and forth. Again, players will have several chances to make their mark and in several different ways during the match.

In MWO's quickplay - which is this game's de facto main game mode - however:
  • The player gets only one chance, once your dead it's over, and if you die early you may have to wait almost 10 minutes until you can play again (unless you pay the "toll" for leaving early and also have other mechs to play, which new players don't).
  • The player is punished harshly for making mistakes, go the wrong way, peek the wrong crest, and you might get instantly killed. Didn't know about radar deprivation, tough luck, now you'll get lurmed to death.
    No second chances.
  • Players often get punished even when they don't make a mistake, be in a slow mech, tough luck, your team just ran away and left you to the wolves.
Matches in MWO can be very fun, but these fun, evenly fought matches are too few and too far between to make the game worth it to most players. It just wears people out to have to endure regular mental beat downs to have some fun.
And it won't cut it to just introduce new modes which are all based on the same flawed 1-life team death match-foundation.

PGI really needs to take a few ideas from other shooters to create a stable and fun base game mode that isn't as punishing to players as the current one, with a better more fun base game I think new players would actually stick around much longer.

#57 TLBFestus

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Posted 14 June 2017 - 09:32 AM

View PostEl Bandito, on 13 June 2017 - 03:58 AM, said:

PGI should stick to catering to the niche crowd. Trying to butter up to the "wider audience" will most likely result in even worse product that will neither make the existing players happy, nor help PGI to earn money.

Dawn of War 3 is a clear example.

View PostJackalBeast, on 13 June 2017 - 09:14 AM, said:


OMG dont even start on DOW3... that game broke my heart.



Yeah....HUGE disappointment for me as well. The fact that they decided to go with a MOBA style game really hurt. I was looking forward to something familiar and instead got this abomination. It's pretty much killed the Warhammer Series in my eyes.

#58 JC Daxion

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Posted 14 June 2017 - 06:26 PM

View PostSplatshot, on 14 June 2017 - 08:11 AM, said:



I tried to get my kid to play, however as soon as you make a group of Two you get stuck in the group Que, the Que where players know what they are doing at a higher level than normal.

So my kid gets killed in nothing flat and no longer wants to play.

Only way was to have him play by himself, and that kind of ruins the idea and so we go play WoT or AW, or some other F2P game where you do not get punished for trying to play with a friend.



Well that is a bummer.. But with Free Private matches coming soon maybe all the dad's out there can start Fight with your kids night!

Father and son verse father and son.. :)

#59 Valhallan

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Posted 14 June 2017 - 07:04 PM

Yea tanks are way better than people think, as long as you give them Aerotech rules so that a machine gun can't penetrate so easily and critout something important (for those who dunno in TT tanks are "worse" because any weapon that hits them can penetrate the armor and blow something important, higher chance than the 1/12 of a mech TAC, aerotech rules make it so that unless the damage exceeds 5/10% of the current armor it will be like a mech for TAC). Tanks are bad energy carriers because they eat much larger tonnage due to needing 1 ton energy doodads for every heat pt past 10, but they ignore heat from ballistics and missiles and are always heat neutral meaning they can just keep alphaing, nothing makes a mechwarrior soil his pants in terror like encountering an SRM carrier (SRM 60) with tandem charge warheads in a dark alley. Even a fatlass or DWF will have nightmares (assuming they live).

#60 Deathlike

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Posted 14 June 2017 - 07:09 PM

Population is always a problem... it's whether you or PGI understands the problem is another matter altogether.





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