16 replies to this topic

[An Innocent Urbie]

AMS should be able to shot down several of the SRMs especially if fired from a distance

[Roughneck45]

It does, its just not very effective.

[Coolant]

Roughneck is correct

[An Innocent Urbie]

damn!! thanks need to put on some AMS then

[Mad Porthos]

IIRC the reason AMS is pretty ineffective against srms and ssrms is because of their toughness. LRMs have 1hp apiece, whereas srm and ssrm projectiles have 2hp apiece. While a batch of 10 lrms flying at a mech using an ams with two ams overload modules might start firing on the lrms at 240 meters and have the damage take out 5 missiles (@5dps) as they fly in over that space, the SRMs probably were fired from MUCH closer, have more hp each (2 each) so many more get through both because tbe srms are fired from so much closer and because each missile is tougher.

Using 2ams with overload might result in better results.

Additionally if someone is raining lrms on or around you and srms are fired at you too, your ams might not be able to fire on everything at once. There may well be limits to the iron dome. I say this because how it used to function was a 3.5 dps shield/sphere which overload upped the dps on, and that would act on any missle groups coming in range.... so an group of 10 lrms was 10 × 1 hitpoint, resulting in that dps being done against the grouping starting at the edge of its range, extreme range of which was 200 and optimal range of which was 100. AMS RANGE modules used to up this to 240 and 120 respectively, but it still remained that more or less 6dps being done to a hypothetical lrm10 salvo would be taking about half out. THAT SAME against 2 srm6 fired at you from 98m probably would not even take out MANY of the srms, because it takes less than half a second for those srms to hit, so less than half the dps would be delivered against each of the srm6 spreads. I'm thinking its something like 6 srms× 2hit points missile and the 6 dps is halved because at a velocity of 200m/s - that would mean 3dps chews through one and a half srms from that range, even fewer if someone has velocity nodes active or srm velocity is tweaked in recent patches.

Obviously, additional ams on your mech would have a better chance of chewing through SRMS, 3x AMS operating on each SRM6 spread fired from 98m migh actually take down about half of each spread... figure of each units 6 dps about half gets to fire in that 98m of trajectory, that might be 9 dps overall, taking out 4 missiles. The thing Is thats still letting some thru and I am not exactly certain if the 9dps is applied to everything incoming or to each individual salvo, e.g. 2 srm6 is 2 salvos of 6, and 4 could be knocked out of each.... or if it counts all 12 as a salvo, taking 4 out only, letting 8 through.

The thing that is mixing it up further is now in the game statistics, AMS is listed as a statistic like listed as "105/s". AMS Overload used to up AMS units DPS by like 2.5, bringing it to 6.0 dps - but now it is listed as 105/s (+2.5) which to me is extremely unclear. What is "105/s"?

Further edits: Sorry Reno about edit after your reply, do you happen to be up to date about these further areas of uncertainty, like what 105/s means?

Edited by Mad Porthos, 13 June 2017 - 09:12 AM.

[Roughneck45]

Mad Porthos, on 13 June 2017 - 08:05 AM, said:

Additionally if someone it raining lrms on or around you and srms are fire too, your ams might ot be able to fire on everything at once. There may well be limits to the iron dome.

Pretty sure it prioritizes LRMs>SSRMs>SRMs

[Zigmund Freud]

Mad Porthos, on 13 June 2017 - 08:05 AM, said:

IIRC the reason AMS is pretty ineffective against srms and ssrms is because of their toughness. LRMs have 1hp apiece, whereas srm and ssrm projectiles have 2hp apiece. While a batch of 10 lrms flying at a mech using an ams with two ams overload modules might start firing on the lrms at 240 meters and have the damage take out 5 missiles (@5dps) as they fly in over that space, the SRMs probably were fired from MUCH closer, have more hp each (2 each) so many more get through both because tbe srms are fired from so much closer and because each missile is tougher.

Using 2ams with overload might result in better results.

Additionally if someone it raining lrms on or around you and srms are fire too, your ams might ot be able to fire on everything at once. There may well be limits to the iron dome.

Well, that's just plain stupid. Srms fly faster, do more damage and are fired at close range. Halfing their health would be a good thing, not exactly nerfing, but giving more viability to ams.

[Reno Blade]

As Mad wrote.

Also considering the speed of LRM vs SRMs, the SRMs just dont have enough time in the AMS dps bubble to go down.

Using 2-3 AMS or having multiple mechs with AMS is actually allowing you to get some SRMS and even NARC (3hp) down !

If SRMs were weaker, the AMS could reduce volleys drastically for SRMs. Not sure if brawling would work anymore, but I'm actually interested to see that.
Only problem is, that you then increase boating performance vs lower hardpoint numbers again, which we don't want (boating is too strong already).

[Wintersdark]

Roughneck45, on 13 June 2017 - 07:34 AM, said:

It does, its just not very effective.

Actually, it's reasonably effective when your AMS is upgraded via skill tree. It's particularly noticable in silly mechs with multiple AMS units.

I roughly tested this - at range, a skilled 3xAMS Nova-S shoots down a substantial number of incoming SRM's. I mean, I wouldn't rely on that to win me a brawl against an SRM mech (as he can just close and cut the number of missiles destroyed down dramatically), but it definitely does nail a good number of them.

[ScrubLord1]

An Innocent Urbie, on 13 June 2017 - 07:41 AM, said:

damn!! thanks need to put on some AMS then

It does but SRMs travel too fast for AMS to be effective, even if fired from max range

Edited by ScrubLord1, 13 June 2017 - 09:15 AM.

[PhoenixFire55]

Its a matter of builds as well. When its 30+ SRMs or 60+ LRMs flying at you even an effective AMS won't do much. And you hardly ever see any missiles not being boated in numbers.

[MustrumRidcully]

Zigmund Freud, on 13 June 2017 - 08:35 AM, said:

Well, that's just plain stupid. Srms fly faster, do more damage and are fired at close range. Halfing their health would be a good thing, not exactly nerfing, but giving more viability to ams.

Why is it plain stupid? SRMs have a tiny range but have similar ammo/ton then LRMs - they obviously put in more explosives and a harder casing so it can withstand counter-measures better.

[Zigmund Freud]

MustrumRidcully, on 13 June 2017 - 09:58 AM, said:

Why is it plain stupid? SRMs have a tiny range but have similar ammo/ton then LRMs - they obviously put in more explosives and a harder casing so it can withstand counter-measures better.

Or they put in more explosives and faster burning fuel (because they do more damage and fly faster. Nothing in their ingame behaviour implies harder casing). Logic aside, I feel it would be more balanced in game. Now AMS are against LRMs only. If we half SRMs health, they will still care little about AMS, because their huge velocity, but AMS will be at least a bit more viable in brawl against srms.

[MustrumRidcully]

Zigmund Freud, on 13 June 2017 - 10:13 AM, said:

Or they put in more explosives and faster burning fuel (because they do more damage and fly faster. Nothing in their ingame behaviour implies harder casing). Logic aside, I feel it would be more balanced in game. Now AMS are against LRMs only. If we half SRMs health, they will still care little about AMS, because their huge velocity, but AMS will be at least a bit more viable in brawl against srms.

Can we also get SRMs to not arbitrarily explode after 270m then?

I see no real reason why SRMs need some special extra defense - they don't got to be used for indirect fire, their maximal range is equal to their optimum range, they spread their damage a lot, and while they are faster than LRMs, they are not really fast projectiles.

In a game where pinpoint precision weapons are so popular, I see no reason to make AMS stronger against SRMs then they are.

[Magnus Santini]

MustrumRidcully, on 13 June 2017 - 12:18 PM, said:

Can we also get SRMs to not arbitrarily explode after 270m then?

If they hit the ground at their max range. I think exploding is cooler and you don't want your SRMs taking a ballistic arc.

[InvictusLee]

An Innocent Urbie, on 13 June 2017 - 07:22 AM, said:

AMS should be able to shot down several of the SRMs especially if fired from a distance

IT shoots down my streaks with no problems.

[Ngamok]

If not mentioned, AMS also shoots down NARC.