12 replies to this topic

[Serpentine Shel Serpentine]

Hello: I am a little mystified by the Heat Containment skill -- the one that increases your maximum heat before shutdown. Does this skill also raise the heat damage threshold, or is it like an "always on" override? The always on override sounds like a real bad idea likely to kill you. I have searched and have not found a good answer to this or a clear explanation of how the skill works. (I have read however that Cool Run is the more favored option on the Operations Tree, especially if you have a decent number of heat sinks so a good base heat dissipation number for the percentage increase.) Thanks for any help.

[Leone]

Raises the threshold.

~Leone.

[Mad Porthos]

In case what Leone said was too glib, what the skill does is raise the point at which shutdown might trigger. It does nothing to change at what point your mech takes damage from heat. The shutdown is designed to prevent one from going high enough to damage the mech, so when your heat containment skill is active, the level at which your mech can operate with heat before shutdown is raised to closer to the actual damage threshold. Basically, the skilled mechwarrior is comfortable operating closer to the danger level and having those active nodes means you've tuned your mech to run hotter than the normal safeties before shutdown kicks in. Of course you still can manually override if you really don't care about the damage when you do hit the damage threshold.

There is a considerable amount of "buffer" heat before you are normally in danger of damage... even if you get to damage territory normally, very quickly the shutdown and dissipation should get you into the safe zone, but the fact that you can be riding so close to damaging levels of heat when you have heat containment skills active means that yes, you are in more danger when you are moving still at 99% heat then choose to alpha a whole group of weapons, triggering ghost heat as well... that can easily take you from 99% to like 160%... not that it would ever read as that. That's a bunch of dissipation time that it's doing damage to your mechs internals. Just watch the B33f's Direstar videos and you can see this in action. While hilarious and allowing for crazy things like that on mechs that have high internal structure so can survive a few insane overheats, it's just not how heat containment is supposed to be helpful I think. I think rather the intention was to allow you to skirt closer and closer to shutdown, but then not shut down and not have to override, assuming that you are a reasonable pilot who sees now the need to cooldown, or hit coolshot or start perhaps chain firing rather than alpha-ing, so that you can drop away from those high heat totals.

Now I am going to make a point of saying that I haven't been playing much mechwarrior for the last year and a half and perhaps something has changed with how heat containment is applied as a skill node in the new skill tree, rather than as the heat containment skill and it's 2x multiplier recieved after elite/mastery - but this is as best I can remember, how containment works.

Edit: Rather trying to be helpful, but looking into this myself, there currently seems to be some uncertainty as to how containment skills are working, so I recommend you do the reading yourself, here's a thread involved in the maths and MWO in fact apparently does just damage you based on whether you are over 100% heat or not. So on one build, you might be able to live at 69 heat with no damage, while that does massive damage on another build, or without this skill.

https://mwomercs.com...ost__p__5749315

Edited by Mad Porthos, 13 June 2017 - 03:47 AM.

[Tier5 Kerensky]

It will increase the heat capacity of your mech.

If you are over 100% of heat capacity you take damage, that never changes.

[Joey Tankblaster]

It raises the heat capacity by a certain amount (3-15%) according to the nodes you have skilled.

Base heat capacity of every mech is 30 Points. Each engine double heat sink (so-called true dubs) adds 2.0 to your heat capacity. Each external double heat sink adds 1.5 heat capacity to your mech. The first 10 engine heat sinks are thus far more efficient than the external ones so that you should always go with a Standard or XL 250 or better higher.

A mech with 10 true dubs can build up to 50 heat points (30 + 20) before shutting down. The heat capacity fully skilled adds another 7.5 heat points which you can build up. Some pilots stated that the heat capacity skill adds only to the base capacity of 30 points. However, my own tests in the trainings grounds indicate that the heat capacity skill adds to the total capacity.

Hope this helps.

[Serpentine Shel Serpentine]

Teer Kerensky, on 13 June 2017 - 02:35 AM, said:

It will increase the heat capacity of your mech.

If you are over 100% of heat capacity you take damage, that never changes.

Joey Tankblaster, on 13 June 2017 - 03:39 AM, said:

It raises the heat capacity by a certain amount (3-15%) according to the nodes you have skilled.

Base heat capacity of every mech is 30 Points. Each engine double heat sink (so-called true dubs) adds 2.0 to your heat capacity. Each external double heat sink adds 1.5 heat capacity to your mech. The first 10 engine heat sinks are thus far more efficient than the external ones so that you should always go with a Standard or XL 250 or better higher.

A mech with 10 true dubs can build up to 50 heat points (30 + 20) before shutting down. The heat capacity fully skilled adds another 7.5 heat points which you can build up. Some pilots stated that the heat capacity skill adds only to the base capacity of 30 points. However, my own tests in the trainings grounds indicate that the heat capacity skill adds to the total capacity.

Hope this helps.

Thanks! I think these two posts answer the question although some of the earlier posts seem a little inconsistent with it. To sum up: heat containment raises the threshold for both shut down and damage. So it is NOT like Override in that Override does not raise the damage threshold. Further, the increase is a percentage of the total current heat threshold including heat sinks. So given that heat containment does seem to me worthwhile for any heat challenged build with or without a lot of heat sinks.
Please let me know if someone thinks I have this wrong.

[Joey Tankblaster]

Once you reach 101% of your max heat capacity, whether it is with or without heat capacity skill undlocked, your mech shuts down and receives damage. The amount of damage to your mech depends on the time in shutdown. If you trigger too much heat resulting in a very deep shutdown you will eventually die (8xERPPC Dire Wolf etc.).

Override just means: I dont care about heat. You simpy deny the automatic shutdown. I know many pilots that use override right from the start of a match. They routinely reach 101 -110% heat and receive damage to their components but yield a higher damage output (e.g. alpha strike damage). I wouldn't recommend it to a new pilot.

[Koniving]

DeloresAbernathy, on 12 June 2017 - 06:21 PM, said:

Hello: I am a little mystified by the Heat Containment skill -- the one that increases your maximum heat before shutdown. Does this skill also raise the heat damage threshold, or is it like an "always on" override? The always on override sounds like a real bad idea likely to kill you. I have searched and have not found a good answer to this or a clear explanation of how the skill works. (I have read however that Cool Run is the more favored option on the Operations Tree, especially if you have a decent number of heat sinks so a good base heat dissipation number for the percentage increase.) Thanks for any help.

When it first came out, it raised the heat before you would shut down, except at the time you'd have shutdowns between 95 and 100 heat, and 101 instantly killed you. They fixed it very quickly.

Currently it raises your threshold amount. If your threshold is 40 units (10 SHS) and you have 10% heat containment, you'll have 44 threshold.

The threshold is your 100%. So 100% goes from 40 to 44.

Damage from heat happens at certain percentages.
If overridden BEFORE shutdown: 100 to 110% for wimpy damage, 111 to 120% for hefty damage, 121 to 130 for severe damage, 131% for instant death if overridden.
If overridden after shutdown: 110 to 120% for wimpy damages if shutdown, 121 to 130% for hefty damage while shutdown, 131 to 150% for heftier damage, 151+ for severe damage, just shy of 200% for instant death.
If shutdown immediately, 120%+ for wimpy damages, 140+ for hefty damages. 150+ for a bee sting to the CT. 160% for a hearty slap to the CT. Just above 165 and under 200%, instant death.

Note: Any heat over 500% is likely to start a ticking time bomb, meaning you're going to die eventually anyway it is just a matter of time and it won't matter what you do. Also: for some strange reason if you exceed 500% heat, so long as you made it to 500%+ in a single shot, you have up to 10 seconds before you explode; use this time wisely.

Why is it so inconsistent? Who knows. But it's better to override after shutting down than to override before.
And it's better to just shut down than to override at all. So at least that much is where it should be.

(Of course, in the source material there is no overriding shutdowns; you override the weapons lockout at 80% heat; a shutdown is a devastating error on your part and there is no easy button to undo it... as such there's no need to be damaged from overheating; the punishment of the 10+ seconds it takes to start back up is more than enough to teach you not to do it.)

Edited by Koniving, 13 June 2017 - 07:37 AM.

[Jingseng]

Pretty sure mad porthos is not correct about heat containment (sorry, but have to point out). Empirically, it'd mean a hell of a lot more players dying from overheating, and trial mechs having a huge advantage. That doesn't play out.

Pretty sure heat containment works as described by koniving and others. Your heat containment is like your "Heat hit Points". More is better. Your live longer with more. less heat gen means taking smaller hits to your "heat hit points" and cool running means you "regen your heat hit points" more quickly. Once your heat hit points are gone, your mech starts to take 'real hit points' of damage, ammo cooks, and hilarious embarrassment generally ensues.

[G4LV4TR0N]

Could we get any real clarification with real numbers on Cool Run/Heat Containment nodes working or not working with Internal Heatsinks and/or External Heatsinks? Heat capacity and heat dissipation.

Edited by G4LV4TR0N, 17 June 2017 - 12:01 PM.

[Rogue Jedi]

I have not tested under the new system but they always used to work with all headsinks weather built into engine, in the additional engine slots or out of engine

[Tier5 Kerensky]

G4LV4TR0N, on 17 June 2017 - 12:00 PM, said:

Could we get any real clarification with real numbers on Cool Run/Heat Containment nodes working or not working with Internal Heatsinks and/or External Heatsinks? Heat capacity and heat dissipation.

This is as current as it gets.

https://mwomercs.com...ng/page__st__20

[Joey Tankblaster]

The point is: PGI does not uncover the exact mechanics, so all we can do is guess& test. The discussion about HeatGen, Cool Run and Heat Capacity is thus centered on the question how it works and second which one (of the three) is better.