14 replies to this topic

[_Casper_]

Incursion is no fun in Quickplay but in FP it will be horrible imo. There is no way to defend baserushes on small maps like HPG or even on big maps like polar. Yeah, of course you could just sit in your base and wait or start the race and rush with your team too but both options are no fun at all. Please PGI do not make FP worse than it is.

[KHAN ATTAKHAN]

Incursion in FP is exactly where it belongs, but, it needs a bigger map (new) not rehashed garbage, and third party A.I. to attack both bases, make it a 3 way fight, if your a dumb*ss and rush everyone out of your base to base rush you risk having a third party come in and destroy your base leaving you to skirmish for the win., or you just plain lose.
I dream of the days when tactics, strategy and intelligence were a part of this game, now you ball up and base rush or death-ball everything, my pet dog mashes the keys and plays most of the time for me now, he's a tier 1 now, I should try the same.
I'M KHAN ATTAKHAN and I'm probably in trouble again.

[Will9761]

Incursion needs to reward players for attempting to do the objectives. Sure, the C-bills and XP are fine but it also need to contribute to your match score and damage done total for a better payout. As for not adding Incursion into FP, I disagree with the OP's thread. Incursion has "Faction Play" written all over it since last year. Heck it is better than the stupid Assault gamemode we have now. If incursion can incentivize players for their contribution for doing objectives, then it would be fine.

[_Casper_]

Will9761, on 04 June 2017 - 02:25 AM, said:

Incursion needs to reward players for attempting to do the objectives. Sure, the C-bills and XP are fine but it also need to contribute to your match score and damage done total for a better payout. As for not adding Incursion into FP, I disagree with the OP's thread. Incursion has "Faction Play" written all over it since last year. Heck it is better than the stupid Assault gamemode we have now. If incursion can incentivize players for their contribution for doing objectives, then it would be fine.

I agree with your opinion about assault in FP. Actually i do not like the former Quickplay modes in FP at all but Incursion is my biggest concern because the mode is broken imo. To be forced to play it with respawns is not a good prospect. Similar to Escort. Both modes are no fun to play imo but that should not be the topic here.

[xX PUG Xx]

Siege, Incursion and Conquest should be the main game modes for FP. While Skirmish should be exactly that, 4vs4 or 8vs8 on the smaller maps with either no or limited respawns: a fast game mode like Scout.

In most military actions the intelligence/information battle happens before the main fight. These are usually limited actions fought by the smaller, faster units looking to gain the information needed by command to pick their fight for the decisive battle. To my mind the Scout and Skirmish modes fit this description and could form a seperate mode away from the main Conquest - Incursion - Siege battles.

The Scout / Skirmish modes could also be used as an introduction to FP for new players; the shorter, faster style of gameplay would be a closer comparison to QP and with a basic tutorial included in the Academy it could a good "soft" step towards the "end game" content.

I have said it before and still believe it is necessary for PGI to cluster map archetypes (and create more of each type/size) to populate each gamemode, this would lead to a immersive experience while opening up avenues for PGI to create "campaigns" on specific planets for future events. However this is another discussion for another topic.....

TL:DR IMO Conquest, Incursion and Siege appear to be a good fit for the main FP battles, while Skirmish and Scout appear to be better as a seperate FP "Lite" mode.

[Commander A9]

Those who say Incursion Mode belongs in Faction Warfare have probably yet to experience or orchestrate an Incursion base rush by 12 Linebackers or 12 Locusts/Hugins...

Edited by Commander A9, 04 June 2017 - 09:18 AM.

[DarklightCA]

There are a lot of cool things about Incursion but as a game mode it just doesn't work, in quick play it's just a worse version of assault and that would be no different in faction play. However the base design of destructible walls, the defensive structures you have to power to get something like a jammer tower are all cool aspects.

If that was applied to a already existing game mode like Siege, that would just improve upon that game mode. Giving the defenders destrucible walls to use, also helping to prevent turrets and generators from being sniped from range. Giving the defenders additional objectives to work towards to help them defend their cannon.

I could see something like a jammer tower being a pretty valueable defensive tool and something the attackers would ideally like take out. It would just provide additional things the defenders and attackers have to work towards.

The only other game mode other than siege that works in Faction Play is conquest. Ideally I would prefer that reworked differently for Faction Play like instead of counting the points up by capturing the points. Each team starts with a high set of points, taking capture points ticks away those points and losing a mech also contributes to losing points. First team to 0 points loses.

That would be my ideal version of Faction Play's game modes.

[Marquis De Lafayette]

Adding Incursion to FW will be either really cool or a complete dumpster fire....I can't see much in-between.

As is, it's hard to imagine it not being the latter.....maybe (a big maybe) if they gave everything way more hp's....so they would be much harder to destroy it could work without a major re-work.

I want this mode or a mode like this to work in FW, as it has many cool elements. However, (as is) just 3 mechs getting into your base can totally wreck the base in under 90 seconds...therefore, it seems unworkable to give each side 48 mechs to try to get in there with. 4 waves of base-rushing on open maps (without those dreaded choke points to help funnel attacking mechs) doesn't sound fun to play. If you make the base elements much harder to destroy, then maybe it could work...maybe.

Edited by Marquis De Lafayette, 04 June 2017 - 12:34 PM.

[Scyther]

Incursion in QP needs to have about double the health on all base items, probably triple on the 3 towers.

I would be fine with Incursion in FP but base items would need 4x the health and about 8x on towers. Possibly more since it needs to survive 4 waves, unless there was a timer or something that meant you had to cycle through waves fast. Also, possibly add back the LRM turrets which would make base rushing a litte trickier (assuming they worked, can't recall why they took them out besides 'players hate LRMs').

Could also be set up as an attack/defend scenario similar to other FP modes, although in that case the attackers should have 3 'attack oriented towers' and the defenders 3 'defense' oriented.

I guess that means PGI would have to modify/change Incursion code (unlikely). So unless the simple 'greater health points' mod worked out, not much chance of it working in FP.

Edited by MadBadger, 04 June 2017 - 01:29 PM.

[Nightbird]

Commander A9, on 04 June 2017 - 09:17 AM, said:

Those who say Incursion Mode belongs in Faction Warfare have probably yet to experience or orchestrate an Incursion base rush by 12 Linebackers or 12 Locusts/Hugins...

As long as the number of turrets, their hp, and total hp of structures match Seige, base rushing will be as balanced.

[J U R A P H]

NlGHTBlRD, on 11 June 2017 - 07:47 AM, said:

As long as the number of turrets, their hp, and total hp of structures match Seige, base rushing will be as balanced.

Eh, I'm going to have to disagree here mate. One of the things that makes siege half balanced is the whole "Lanes" thing, as much as we hate to admit it. It's actually REALLY hard to stop a rush of heavy mechs, which is why the balancing factor of forcing the attackers into lines of fire is needed. Go have a gander at the quick play maps, and check out how easy it will be to just rush around the outside. Can you imagine how frustrating it's going to be trying to stop a base rush around the rim on grim-plexus?

Now you might say: "But juraph, both sides are open to getting base rushed". Yeah, that's kinda the problem. Why would anybody bother trying to battle the mechs in the center, when the bases are SO EASY to destroy? Yeah, I agree that if you are half decent, you could probably stop a push. But, upon dropping, you have two options, either camp your own base, or rush theirs. If you try to brawl in the center, you WILL fail. Have fun trying to stop those lights and fast heavies.

This doesn't sound too bad, until you realize there are three possible strategies that will eventually pan out. The first being: Both sides hold at base, until somebody gives up and goes to option 2. Option 2 is one team rushes the enemy base. Which, trust me, will not be easy to defend, given the whole destructable walls thing. You can literally come in from wherever you want, this isn't going to be fun. Third option is the teams running past each other, racing to see who can kill the enemy base the fastest. Fun and interactive.

There is a fourth option, where both teams play skirmish. But, do you REALLY want to risk getting rushed past by moving into the center? I don't trust any units enough to have the honor to keep to that.

[zolop]

Disagree with topic. Faction play needs more modes that do not end up being get the most kills. If anything else, Incursion should have been designed from the ground up to be in FW as it requires more strategy than most modes in the game now.

Domination should not be in FW as it is geared more toward quick play players, as it doesn't require much tactical maneuvering.

If players want to play modes that require less strategies, like domination, it can just be allocated to Quick play. Incursion needs to go into FP with adjustments for it. I agree the maps need to be bigger for incursion though. I have played incursion in QP.

Lanes in maps or modes provide no incentive for players to invent strategies or expand their play styles. Less lanes in maps and modes means more opportunity for player strategies and the creation thereof not thought of by the developers.

Edited by zolop, 13 June 2017 - 02:55 PM.

[Deathlike]

J U R A P H, on 12 June 2017 - 06:09 PM, said:

Eh, I'm going to have to disagree here mate. One of the things that makes siege half balanced is the whole "Lanes" thing, as much as we hate to admit it. It's actually REALLY hard to stop a rush of heavy mechs, which is why the balancing factor of forcing the attackers into lines of fire is needed. Go have a gander at the quick play maps, and check out how easy it will be to just rush around the outside. Can you imagine how frustrating it's going to be trying to stop a base rush around the rim on grim-plexus?

Now you might say: "But juraph, both sides are open to getting base rushed". Yeah, that's kinda the problem. Why would anybody bother trying to battle the mechs in the center, when the bases are SO EASY to destroy? Yeah, I agree that if you are half decent, you could probably stop a push. But, upon dropping, you have two options, either camp your own base, or rush theirs. If you try to brawl in the center, you WILL fail. Have fun trying to stop those lights and fast heavies.

This doesn't sound too bad, until you realize there are three possible strategies that will eventually pan out. The first being: Both sides hold at base, until somebody gives up and goes to option 2. Option 2 is one team rushes the enemy base. Which, trust me, will not be easy to defend, given the whole destructable walls thing. You can literally come in from wherever you want, this isn't going to be fun. Third option is the teams running past each other, racing to see who can kill the enemy base the fastest. Fun and interactive.

There is a fourth option, where both teams play skirmish. But, do you REALLY want to risk getting rushed past by moving into the center? I don't trust any units enough to have the honor to keep to that.

You don't want the bases to be destroyed so quickly unless you want games to end that much quicker with even less rewards. I mean it sounds great if you want to win the war, but if that causes a cascade of people leaving due to an imbalanced mode (which base rushing can create), then you need to strongly reconsider that position.

Increasing the health of the base is totally mandatory or people are not going to enjoy the mode in CW/FP as currently constituted (especially from what we see in QP's Incursion).

Camping the bases or just having stagnant play doesn't help the situation either way.

Edited by Deathlike, 13 June 2017 - 07:44 PM.

[LordNothing]

nothing wrong with incursion in fp. i would argue that domination needs to be removed, maybe skirmish is a distant second for removal (its a good replacement for the silly counter attack mode we used to have), but the qp modes are much better in fp than they ever were in qp.

Edited by LordNothing, 14 June 2017 - 01:07 AM.

[J U R A P H]

Deathlike, on 13 June 2017 - 07:42 PM, said:

You don't want the bases to be destroyed so quickly unless you want games to end that much quicker with even less rewards. I mean it sounds great if you want to win the war, but if that causes a cascade of people leaving due to an imbalanced mode (which base rushing can create), then you need to strongly reconsider that position.

Increasing the health of the base is totally mandatory or people are not going to enjoy the mode in CW/FP as currently constituted (especially from what we see in QP's Incursion).

Camping the bases or just having stagnant play doesn't help the situation either way.

I think we are in agreement, nothing you said here is in contradiction to what I posted. With maybe the slight exception of the fact that I think incursion is inherently flawed, and increasing the health pool isn't going to change the fact that it's a ****** game mode. If you increase the base health pool too much, the game mode will just turn into skirmish. Too little, and the best strat's will be, again, to either camp your base, or rush around the edges. Maybe it's best we just wait and see how it pans out.