46 replies to this topic

[DaMuchi]

So civil war tech is coming next month and one of the things that many people scratch their head about is the introduction of a class of lasers, the micro lasers.

Some people say its kinda like just a filler to use up unused hard points while others just say that PGI is just introducing them to make the clanners feel like they are getting something since IS is getting new toys.</p>

One shot launchers also has no viable usage in the current game as a single salvo of rockets will never have any real impact, the weight or slots could probably be better used for ammunition or heat sinks.

But then why bother coding these things?

Some people suggest elementals, but frankly, elementals are very slow relative to mechs and are mainly for anti infantry combat roles, which is irrelevant to MWO. There is one thing that many people forgot though. Protomechs. These mechs are small mechs weighing from 2 tonnes, like the Harpy, to 9 tonnes, like the minotaur.

So what am I suggesting? perhaps a new faction game mode that utilizes protomechs? or maybe they'll include more slots in invasion drop decks forcing players to play protomechs if they want to have a lot heavier mechs in their deck? Who knows, but what is for sure is that adding so many seemingly useless weapons to the scene can only suggest that more is to come.

Or.. it could just be some junk weapons introduced to be lore friendly or whatevs.

What do you guys think?

Edited by DaMuchi, 15 June 2017 - 02:42 PM.

[Requiemking]

Micro lasers are for Clan mechs with too many energy hardpoints o effectively us, and RLs are pretty much just or Light mechs with Missile hardpoints.

[Felicitatem Parco]

Requiemking, on 15 June 2017 - 02:45 PM, said:

Micro lasers are for Clan mechs with too many energy hardpoints o effectively us, and RLs are pretty much just or Light mechs with Missile hardpoints.

Lights don't really have the tonnage needed for rockets. They usually have, what, like 5-10 tons total for munitions in most cases... Using a RL20 is like losing almost a third of your firepower for just a single attack that will spread damage. You might consider using 6 tons to make a single 80dmg attack if you hope to kill only a single enemy in the whole match with a backstab...

[Brain Cancer]

Yeah. RLs give lights a large one-shot punch for when you don't expect a long lifespan, or can be used to fill missile hardpoints you wouldn't otherwise use with an extra 10+ damage to throw out as needed.

Microlasers are basically point-defense or useful en masse on faster 'Mechs as a "knife" weapon. ER micros have a 120m base range, after all and are a mere 0.25 tons each. I could see them paired up with flamers, for example.

[Requiemking]

Prosperity Park, on 15 June 2017 - 02:51 PM, said:

Lights don't really have the tonnage needed for rockets. They usually have, what, like 5-10 tons total for munitions in most cases... Using a RL20 is like losing almost a third of your firepower for just a single attack that will spread damage. You might consider using 6 tons to make a single 80dmg attack if you hope to kill only a single enemy in the whole match with a backstab...

What do you think the LCT-3S will be used for?

[Brain Cancer]

Yeah, the -3S (for suicidal) zipping in to dump it's RL payload and then fleeing to poke with an ERML is precisely the kind of build I expect.

[Kaeb Odellas]

Requiemking, on 15 June 2017 - 02:53 PM, said:

What do you think the LCT-3S will be used for?

to troll your own team.

[LordNothing]

micro lasers and rocket launchers are being implemented because they are low hanging fruit. cut n paste some xml, change some values and done. elementals on the other hand would require ai that works (unless they are player controlled then wat?) and a lot of other features. protomechs are just super lights and unless you are a die hard locust pilot the interest is likely non existent. pgi loves low hanging fruit though and will make us microlasers and rocket launchers.

[Luminis]

Assuming the Micros don't get ghost heat... Slap 15 on a Nova!

As for the Rocket Launcher... Well, I think I can come up with better ways to fill up some remaining tonnage and a missile hardpoint on damn near anything. Even if its just a lousy SRM-2...

[Brain Cancer]

There's also designs for which honestly, a single janky missile launcher isn't worth much. The Dragon CT mount, Cataphract head, and so on. You can squeeze 10-15 rockets into those for minimum fuss.

[Tarogato]

The main reason I see for introducing micro lasers is to allow for certain mechs to be included in the game.


ADR-E (two double-energy torsos)
DWF-X (double-missile torso, double-ballistic left arm that isn't paywalled)
FRF-F (fire falcon, we're due for more clan lights)
PNA-2, PNA-3 (Piranha, we're due for more clan lights)
ICB-4 (incubus, we're due for more clan lights)
PKH-2, PKH-3 (pack hunter, we're due for more clan lights)
NVA-U (the ECM variant with 8 MGs, requires some editing to introduce though)
MLX-P (8 energy variant, probably replaced by MLX-F though)
CLR-D (crimson lagur, fast 50-ton omni with 16 energy hardpoints)
STR-3 (stone rhino, iconic clan assault)
WHM-IIC-7 (only variant that can run true laservomit builds without inflation)



Yes, I made up a lot of those abbreviations on the spot. Sue me. =3



Oh, as far as rocket launcher mechs...


COM-4H (6 missile hardpoints)
FS9-P (6 missile firestarter)
FLE-19 (missile flea with 8 ballistic)
STG-5R (missile variant of Stinger, we're due for another 20-tonner)
WSP-3L (ECM wasp, we're due for another 20-tonner)
LDT-X2 (missile brigand. We're due for a jumping 25 tonner)
GOL-2H (missile variant of Goliath. Because quads.)
CGR-2A2 (5+ missile Charger, this mech has got to be on PGI's radar)
CPLT-H2 (8 missile, some in torso, and three energy)
CN9-H (5 missile)
HBK-5H (3 missile AND ballistic)
JM6-H (6 missile in torsos)

Edited by Tarogato, 15 June 2017 - 03:31 PM.

[Aggravated Assault Mech]

I don't expect rocket launchers to be translated 1:1 from TT nor do I expect them to just be one-shot SRMs in terms of velocity, spread, etc. The armor doubling simply makes them non-viable as weapons in that case.

I'm expecting:

1) Them to behave more like LBX autocannons. Tight spread, fast velocity.

2) No external ammo supply ammo, have a limited number of reloads (1-3) incorporated into the weapon.

Then an RL20 would essentially be, say, a 2-shot LB20X for 1.5t/3 crits. There isn't really point adding them otherwise.

[WrathOfDeadguy]

DaMuchi, on 15 June 2017 - 02:41 PM, said:

One shot launchers also has no viable usage in the current game as a single salvo of rockets will never have any real impact, the weight or slots could probably be better used for ammunition or heat sinks.

Strongly disagree here. A bit of extra burst damage makes all the difference more often than not, and there are a bunch of 'Mechs with single missile hardpoints which just aren't useful for anything else because the strength of the chassis lies in a different direction.

Case 1: So, you have a KGC running UACs (or, soon enough, RACs). A bunch of them jam, and you're in a brawl. 3t gets you a pair of RL20s. You'd spend as much on backup lasers, and they give you some sustainability... but they don't shake the enemy's screen the way your ACs do, and they take too long to deliver useful damage. With lasers as a backup, you'll be the one retreating. With the pair of RL20s, you have a 'Mech-stopping panic button, and you can keep the pressure on just long enough for your main weapons to clear.

Case 2: Grasshopper. Head missile. What the heck can you even do with that? A LRM5 or SRM4 eats way too much tonnage for the minimal ROI. An RL10, on the other hand, gives you a fairly potent finishing weapon- or something to use on the enemy that just rounded the corner while you were cooling off from your last laser alpha. It's only half a ton, whereas literally any other weapon you could fit in that single slot would eat a whole ton and at least two slots, or substantially more than that. A 70-ton energy boat can spare half a ton of armor, but it cannot spare a DHS. There's no reason to fill that hardpoint without a weapon like RL10 in the game.

There will never be a Rocket Launcher meta; they're too niche and too much of a gamble for that... but they'll have their uses, and in those few situations where they are useful there won't be anything else that can do the same job as well.

[Snowbluff]

Aggravated Assault Mech, on 15 June 2017 - 03:20 PM, said:

I don't expect rocket launchers to be translated 1:1 from TT nor do I expect them to just be one-shot SRMs in terms of velocity, spread, etc. The armor doubling simply makes them non-viable as weapons in that case.

I'm expecting:

1) Them to behave more like LBX autocannons. Tight spread, fast velocity.

2) No external ammo supply ammo, have a limited number of reloads (1-3) incorporated into the weapon.

Then an RL20 would essentially be, say, a 2-shot LB20X for 1.5t/3 crits. There isn't really point adding them otherwise.

I agree, with armor double, it's weaksauce as is.

[Brain Cancer]

Aggravated Assault Mech, on 15 June 2017 - 03:20 PM, said:

I don't expect rocket launchers to be translated 1:1 from TT nor do I expect them to just be one-shot SRMs in terms of velocity, spread, etc. The armor doubling simply makes them non-viable as weapons in that case.

I'm expecting:

1) Them to behave more like LBX autocannons. Tight spread, fast velocity.

No, that's another oneshot weapon.

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/M-Pod

[Aggravated Assault Mech]

Brain Cancer, on 15 June 2017 - 05:02 PM, said:

No, that's another oneshot weapon.

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/M-Pod

No, I meant they'll likely have higher velocity, range and tighter spread than SRMs.

Do you really think that rocket launchers are just going to be one-shot SRMs?

[Tincan Nightmare]

Aggravated Assault Mech, on 15 June 2017 - 05:14 PM, said:

No, I meant they'll likely have higher velocity, range and tighter spread than SRMs.

Do you really think that rocket launchers are just going to be one-shot SRMs?

I'm kinda surprised that they didn't give us one shot SRM's, being PGI .

[Mcgral18]

Micro Lasers


Half weight Sphere Smalls
Equally terrible, just half the cost

[Naduk]

Rockets will be perfect for mechs like the erLL stalker
Dosent interfere to much with weight or build dynamic but provides a "incase of emergency" firepower boost

Micro lasers will be amazing on mechs with abundant energy hardpoints like a nova or exe
Exe can take 7E in 1 arm and additional slots elsewhere
Take a ac20. Heavy laser and as many micro lasers as can fit
Go nuts

They will also sit nicely in as a laser machine gun style role allowing clans to take ammo less backup weapons that have minimal heat and weight

[Brain Cancer]

Aggravated Assault Mech, on 15 June 2017 - 05:14 PM, said:

No, I meant they'll likely have higher velocity, range and tighter spread than SRMs.

Do you really think that rocket launchers are just going to be one-shot SRMs?

Nope. They do one damage per missile, though I expect that gets tweaked a bit in MWO (but not much, this is Paul).

In fact, I expect they'll be ripple-fired and spread rapidly to boot, just to prevent them from being anything dangerous unless massively spammed (read: six zillion rockets) or stuck literally against a target and fired (since larger launchers will have larger spread- again, Paul logic, it matches the LRMs).