67 replies to this topic

[JohnnyWayne]

Shifty McSwift, on 17 June 2017 - 03:21 AM, said:

Rock paper scissors ideology will only ever loosely apply here

To cut things short - this is exactly what I meant with "to a degree".

G4LV4TR0N, on 17 June 2017 - 03:38 AM, said:

As a Clan Light Mech pilot I'm quite glad of changes. Nerfs are nerfs, but they will mainly hurt boating builds, like TUK3 most used mech, 6SPL ACH. Seriously got sick of it as it was hard to find a game, QP/GQ/CW without one.

Also, it was quite obvious for long time that Clan SPL is very strong, just take a look at something like MRBC, they were probably one of most used weapons in whole league and people were boating them even on maps like Terra Therma. Plus, probably most doubled MRBC mech was SPL Nova.

Not it will be hard to fight a match with one. One light mech that is.

Edited by JohnnyWayne, 17 June 2017 - 04:07 AM.

[Valhallan]

Kaeb Odellas, on 17 June 2017 - 03:15 AM, said:

Firestarters can bring 8. You don't really see those much anymore thanks to rescale.

Yeah but that's the thing, if they're not a factor in the good mechs and only help the pariah mechs what's the problem?

Jay Leon Hart, on 17 June 2017 - 03:19 AM, said:

The HBK-4P has 9E
The FS9-A, FS9-K, BJ-1X & PHX-1K have 8E
The FS9-S & JVN-11A have 7E

Anything heavier on the IS side doesn't really want to be boating small class lasers

I think the only kinda ok mech there is the BJ-1X (IS hunch mebbe when LFE drops) and if your not using 6xml 2xmpl its kinda a waste , it has decent enough cooling even with that loadout to falpha 3 times. Also putting brawl weapons on it.... when it got no shield arms . Meh i'd totally trade this no GH SPL for the 6GH clan ersmall, half weight more usable range.

[Jay Leon Hart]

Valhallan, on 17 June 2017 - 04:06 AM, said:

Yeah but that's the thing, if they're not a factor in the good mechs and only help the pariah mechs what's the problem?

I think the only kinda ok mech there is the BJ-1X (IS hunch mebbe when LFE drops) and if your not using 6xml 2xmpl its kinda a waste , it has decent enough cooling even with that loadout to falpha 3 times. Also putting brawl weapons on it.... when it got no shield arms . Meh i'd totally trade this no GH SPL for the 6GH clan ersmall, half weight more usable range.

Yeah, it's not really a problem at all. I've never seen anyone but myself using 8x IS SLs, so they're not exactly good.

I would trade a lot of IS lasers for their Clan counterparts (GH limits included) in a heartbeat.

MixTech? PGIPLZ?!

[Y E O N N E]

Valhallan, on 17 June 2017 - 04:06 AM, said:

I think the only kinda ok mech there is the BJ-1X (IS hunch mebbe when LFE drops) and if your not using 6xml 2xmpl its kinda a waste , it has decent enough cooling even with that loadout to falpha 3 times. Also putting brawl weapons on it.... when it got no shield arms . Meh i'd totally trade this no GH SPL for the 6GH clan ersmall, half weight more usable range.

It's really not a waste to do other things with it. Try it on a STD 275 with 6x ML and 2x SL and the 15% laser duration reduction. Been running it like that since before its time in the sun and once again after the skill tree. Sustains damage well, cools well, deals well. Praise be to high hardpoints. For shorter range, 6x MPL + 2x SL is superior to the 6xML + 2xMPL because you can turn-and-burn better and protect the XL. That's how I ran it from when it got nerfed the old stand-by builds into the ground until the skill tree returned it to its old form.

As for brawler builds, it's actually fairly competent at it. It doesn't have shield arms, but it can spread the damage across its torsos well when moving at a good clip, and the skill tree increases its yaw range quite a bit. 8x SPL on a STD 280 was nothing to sneeze at on the right map.

[xe N on]

Antares102, on 17 June 2017 - 01:19 AM, said:

Now that the CSPL are at 4 damage can we please have a ghost heat limit of something like 8?
If the ghost heat limit of 6 persists than you can only do an alpha of 24.
Compared to IS SPL which has no ghost heat limit this is really unacceptable.

C-SPL builds were highly superior to (C)-SRM builds.

Compare C-SPL to C-SRM2 with 0,5 ton of ammo. Both weight 1 ton. Both do 4 damage. Both do the same DPS now.

C-SRM2 takes slightly less heat but need at least 0,5 ton of ammo and 2 slots and does spread.

C-SPL still are highly precise because their burntime even got reduced. So SRM builds now can bring in higher alphas but C-SLP builds still have alot of less spread.

Seems to be balanced.

Stop crying.

Edited by xe N on, 17 June 2017 - 07:43 AM.

[JohnnyWayne]

Yep I like how you mix things up. Like you completely ignore that SRMs do damage to multiple components and their crit multiplier makes them even stronger. Nope, your comparison is wrong.

To point it out: SRM 2s do at least 4 damage. More like 5-6 usually, when they hit two parts of a mech with their explosion.

Edited by JohnnyWayne, 17 June 2017 - 07:46 AM.

[Y E O N N E]

JohnnyWayne, on 17 June 2017 - 07:45 AM, said:

To point it out: SRM 2s do at least 4 damage. More like 5-6 usually, when they hit two parts of a mech with their explosion.

SRMs don't do splash damage anymore. They ix-nayed that years ago for exactly that reason: damage was multiplying across components.

[xe N on]

JohnnyWayne, on 17 June 2017 - 07:45 AM, said:

Yep I like how you mix things up. Like you completely ignore that SRMs do damage to multiple components and their crit multiplier makes them even stronger. Nope, your comparison is wrong.

To point it out: SRM 2s do at least 4 damage. More like 5-6 usually, when they hit two parts of a mech with their explosion.

lol, because crit is so much important in this game ...

Crit is useless. Battletech is not a random RPG where crits make you do more damage. Crits just destroy internal component. Do you know how many time I took critical damage to one of my components in the last games I played in my clan mechs and did not die around 5 sec shortly after? I think ... none.

Oh, wait. I forgot. My gauss got crited and exploded and I still lived some good time afterward. But ... yeah, gauss explosion is around 100% ...

Edited by xe N on, 17 June 2017 - 07:52 AM.

[Jay Leon Hart]

JohnnyWayne, on 17 June 2017 - 07:45 AM, said:

Yep I like how you mix things up. Like you completely ignore that SRMs do damage to multiple components and their crit multiplier makes them even stronger. Nope, your comparison is wrong.

To point it out: SRM 2s do at least 4 damage. More like 5-6 usually, when they hit two parts of a mech with their explosion.

That's not how SRMs work, that 4 damage is split over all the projectiles, just like LBX class ACs.

[Valhallan]

Yeonne Greene, on 17 June 2017 - 07:30 AM, said:

It's really not a waste to do other things with it. Try it on a STD 275 with 6x ML and 2x SL and the 15% laser duration reduction. Been running it like that since before its time in the sun and once again after the skill tree. Sustains damage well, cools well, deals well. Praise be to high hardpoints. For shorter range, 6x MPL + 2x SL is superior to the 6xML + 2xMPL because you can turn-and-burn better and protect the XL. That's how I ran it from when it got nerfed the old stand-by builds into the ground until the skill tree returned it to its old form.

As for brawler builds, it's actually fairly competent at it. It doesn't have shield arms, but it can spread the damage across its torsos well when moving at a good clip, and the skill tree increases its yaw range quite a bit. 8x SPL on a STD 280 was nothing to sneeze at on the right map.

The entire point of ML's is not short range though , the mpl's are just tonnage eaters. i have tried 1LL and 6xML but it doesn't really change much. you could do SPL but what i meant was it's a waste of high hardpoints, cuz brawl don't reall need those, but anyway if i'm brawling in a med im taking my cn9ah with ac20 3xsrm4 which is far better (even with ac20 ammo problems due to not getting doubled, "grumble") despite not really being a metamech either.

Edited by Valhallan, 17 June 2017 - 07:53 AM.

[Felicitatem Parco]

JohnnyWayne, on 17 June 2017 - 07:45 AM, said:

Yep I like how you mix things up. Like you completely ignore that SRMs do damage to multiple components and their crit multiplier makes them even stronger. Nope, your comparison is wrong.

To point it out: SRM 2s do at least 4 damage. More like 5-6 usually, when they hit two parts of a mech with their explosion.

Yeonne Greene, on 17 June 2017 - 07:48 AM, said:

SRMs don't do splash damage anymore. They ix-nayed that years ago for exactly that reason: damage was multiplying across components.

Jay Leon Hart, on 17 June 2017 - 07:51 AM, said:

That's not how SRMs work, that 4 damage is split over all the projectiles, just like LBX class ACs.

Yeah, SRM splash damage was removed years ago because light mechs, with their closely-spaced components, were receiving much more damage from a single salvo than assault and heavy Mechs were. It was completely illogical and unbalanced.

SRMs are only "pinpoint" like lasers if you are 1-10 meters away from target.

Edited by Prosperity Park, 17 June 2017 - 07:59 AM.

[JohnnyWayne]

Yeonne Greene, on 17 June 2017 - 07:48 AM, said:

SRMs don't do splash damage anymore. They ix-nayed that years ago for exactly that reason: damage was multiplying across components.

They toned it down, as far as I am aware, yet its still there. Splat cats were a huge problem back then, the only thing that helped in the end was ghost heat.

[Y E O N N E]

JohnnyWayne, on 17 June 2017 - 08:08 AM, said:

They toned it down, as far as I am aware, yet its still there. Splat cats were a huge problem back then, the only thing that helped in the end was ghost heat.

They didn't tone it down, they flat-out removed it. All missiles only deal damage where they impact; whether or not the visual effect of the impact is where the game actually calculated it is a different conversation, but there is no more splash. Why else do you think you can get all your damage only to the CT of a 'Mech when you are close enough?

[Alienized]

Jay Leon Hart, on 17 June 2017 - 01:58 AM, said:

This I agree with, but Clan Lights are still > IS Lights. My ACHs, KFXs and ADRs see a lot more play time than my LCTs, FS9s, RVNs and WLFs.

there is your problem.

there is no commando in that list.

[Jay Leon Hart]

Alienized, on 17 June 2017 - 08:35 AM, said:

there is your problem.

there is no commando in that list.

I bought the Hero when it was on sale and intend to get the ECM variant at some point, but I just don't like the Commando as a chassis.

[Y E O N N E]

Valhallan, on 17 June 2017 - 07:52 AM, said:

The entire point of ML's is not short range though , the mpl's are just tonnage eaters. i have tried 1LL and 6xML but it doesn't really change much. you could do SPL but what i meant was it's a waste of high hardpoints, cuz brawl don't reall need those, but anyway if i'm brawling in a med im taking my cn9ah with ac20 3xsrm4 which is far better (even with ac20 ammo problems due to not getting doubled, "grumble") despite not really being a metamech either.

It's a ~60 meter difference between ML and MPL (324 vs 264 m), which is peanuts and still the same bracket; the extra damage will make up most of the difference at 300 m. There is a 0.3 second difference in burn, too, which is not peanuts. If I'm going to run an XL in the BJ-1X, I'm going to do so with weapons that let me dump the damage and start twisting. With 15% duration reduction on MedLas, there's a little less incentive to build this way (spread is now 0.25 s), but without it it's night-and-day better to do the MPL build with the XL, especially since it no longer possesses the double-strength internals it boasted back in late 2015. This build got validated in MRBC scrims over the old MedLas/MedPulse one, for whatever that is worth to you. And I dunno about you, but the Blackjack is a chassis I have invested over 2,000 drops into, which is a quarter of my total drops. Lots of testing has been done.

I've also run it with 2x LL and 6x ML on an XL 265. It was...surprisingly effective, given how hot it was. I don't think anybody expects a 48 point laser alpha out of an IS Medium, especially not a 45 tonner. Better on a 225, but you give up the BJ-1X's unique speed capabilities this way.

CN9-AH is certainly one of the better IS brawl mediums. Solid choice.

[Gyrok]

Jay Leon Hart, on 17 June 2017 - 01:54 AM, said:

Maybe later. I was just quick-quoting from Gyrok's whine thread about Large Laser GH limits, figured it was applicable to a whine thread about Small Pulse GH limits.

Or, do it yourself, since I don't care you can't see Clan still have better damage capabilities at longer range and likely always will.

Or, you could stop trolling everyone and keep your attempts to spin this to yourself.

[Jay Leon Hart]

Gyrok, on 17 June 2017 - 09:26 AM, said:

Or, you could stop trolling everyone and keep your attempts to spin this to yourself.

Spin what? What in that list of GH limits and therefore damage caps avoiding GH is "spin" ?

[Magnus Santini]

Ghost heat and its amount is not a problem on clan mechs. The clan mechs' problem is that they have way too many hardpoints, so they are getting about 10x ghost heat for shooting their 10th through 19th small pulse lasers too soon.

[iliketurtles87]

i dont understand the ******* whine, expecially not those from the clanners. At the end of the day we still have better DHS, Engines, FF, ES, MG, Lighter compacter Weapons, better ERPPC, TC, free Case, Cgauss... Dit i forget something? Oh yea generally mechs with better geometry and more/better Hardpoint placement (HBK, KDK, MADIIC, Nova, SCR, NightGyr the coming MadcatMKII)..

I think clans will doing fine...