27 replies to this topic

[stoni988]

Returning player after about 3 years here (That summer blast event made me curios about what's going on in mwo), so take my opinion with a grain of salt.

I have to admit I was really surprised to see the Sp4 getting nerfed.

In my experience the only thing the sp4 did really well, was staying alive long enough to overcome all it's other weaknesses. Made that experience back then and nowadays. Getting over 400 dmg per round in this thing requires some serious work not to mention surviving the sniping and lrm phase. Yes it is/was quite tanky but that didn't help you much when you brawl and your opponent just does tons of dmg while you have to watch that you don't explode from heat by shooting a few lasers. No clue how the other HBK variants perform but for me it never felt that I was in huge advantage over other mediums.

What do you think?

[Snazzy Dragon]

It's my fault to an extent, and I don't feel it's deserved after reading other players' input on the matter.

[Monkey Lover]

In the last comp game we played it was our 4th pick with medium mechs going over 95kph.

I understand nerfing it for a design as it had tons of armor and didnt really fit In. But as a mech it was no way op.

Edited by Monkey Lover, 17 June 2017 - 10:35 AM.

[Wattila]

Most likely a victim of spreadsheet balancing (I mean, the guy nerfed the IS Large Laser). Subjectively, the mech wasn't OP, and there was no mention of overperformance in the patch notes. I guess the designer just felt it (and the BLR-2C) had too strong structure quirks and decided to bring it in line just because. RIP.

Edited by Wattila, 17 June 2017 - 10:39 AM.

[The Soul Hunter]

I had heard that 4 mans were running them in scouting with max survival but idk if that's true. IF it is true then that's probably why it got the nerfbat.

[Jman5]

In a game so dominated by long range, poke-trading Clan heavies and assaults, it was pretty hard to make the Hunchback 4SP be much more than average.

The mech was short range, symmetrical, slow, ran pretty hot, and was stuck with mostly low slung, low damage IS lasers. The hitpoint quirks were really the the only thing that made it stand out. While it's still going to retain half it's structure quirks, I don't know if that will be enough for a mech that was already struggling to be relevant.

Maybe the new tech will breathe some life into the variant.

Edited by Jman5, 17 June 2017 - 11:10 AM.

[stoni988]

Jman5, on 17 June 2017 - 11:08 AM, said:

In a game so dominated by long range, poke-trading Clan heavies and assaults, it was pretty hard to make the Hunchback 4SP be much more than average.

It had it's charme. Getting to brawling range was some kind of a game in a game. I guess we have to wait and see if the 4sp is still a viable mech after the patch.

Jman5, on 17 June 2017 - 11:08 AM, said:

The mech was short range, symmetrical, slow, ran pretty hot, and was stuck with low slung, low damage IS lasers. The hitpoint

I agree with you, but why is a symmetrical mech a disadvantage?

[Jman5]

stoni988, on 17 June 2017 - 11:15 AM, said:

I agree with you, but why is a symmetrical mech a disadvantage?

There are pros and cons, but I would argue the cons of being symmetrical outweigh the pros.

Asymmetrical allows you side-poke effectively. Also allows you to shield your your weapons better by using your deadside to take the hits.

The advantage of being symmetrical is if you get half your mech blown off, you can still limp along with half your firepower.

The disadvantage of being symmetrical is that you have to expose your full body to get all your guns on target.

[stoni988]

Thanks, makes sense.

[MustrumRidcully]

They probably should have added some other quirks to compensate a bit. I don't see it all that often, but then I am not doing much Faction Warfare or Competitive stuff. If it was used particularly for Scouting because of its better endurance, I could see that a nerf to its endurance was okay, if it was compensated for something useful in another area.

[El Bandito]

First they take away the weapon quirks, and then they take away the durability quirks. It's medium class version of what happened to the GHR-5P.

[Ghogiel]

Wattila, on 17 June 2017 - 10:36 AM, said:

Most likely a victim of spreadsheet balancing (I mean, the guy nerfed the IS Large Laser).

Yep.

nerds argue on the forum about math but don't know **** all about the game. See it with everything IS when they talk about **** in vacuum of weap stats (those base stats don't exist in the game and haven't since quirks, as most weaps that actually get used are quirked. argueing over base stats will never matter until all quirks are removed.) Seen it over CERLL duration pre skill tree and how that was the defacto reason they were never used.

Anyway 4sp was not very meaningful. We've ran it in comp pre and post skill tree, it doesn't do much besides hopefully sinking dmg. It wasn't terrible at that when facing uneducated players. but still usually dies about as fast as say a GRF because most meds just get double legged anyway so twisting and most of those armor quirks are mitigated anyway. it doesn't do much dmg.

rip

[Khobai]

anything that makes IS players cry is justified

[Commoners]

Surviving is pretty much all it did well. It was either too weapon anemic or too hot to do significant damage while brawling, and it couldn't play the poke and peek game either due to symmetry/knuckle dragging/low accel/decel. High structure bonuses usually mean something can take an XL engine, but good luck filling out the tonnage with anything useful that isn't also too hot for it with that saved tonnage.

Even if it was alive crits on it meant that at 50% structure any weapons in those sections were dead.

Overall it was a garbage mech, got those quirks for being garbage, remained in the fugue between garbage and mediocre, and is now going back to the dumpster. Getting spreadsheeted is part of the lifecycle of bad mechs that need such outrageous quirks to be viable.

Edited by Commoners, 17 June 2017 - 08:35 PM.

[Cato Phoenix]

It was my first mech, way back in 2012.

I was still able to crank out obliteration with 2ASRM6 and 5MLAS, even after the quirk passes and even recently after the skill tree. The extra durability is not very noticeable to begin with, and now it probably makes little sense to even armor quirk it up.

Gone are the days of that thing slugging out 1 vs 2 or 3 mechs and putting hurt out with missiles.

[Jay Leon Hart]

The Soul Hunter, on 17 June 2017 - 10:53 AM, said:

I had heard that 4 mans were running them in scouting with max survival but idk if that's true. IF it is true then that's probably why it got the nerfbat.

If that's true, I never saw them. I have been having trouble with teams of 4 CDA / ASN with 2-3 LLs, mostly because I bring short range builds to Scouting. Then I swap to a ranged build and next match, it's SRM GRF / COM

[Cyrion]

I bought it because it was on sale after the Tuk3 event and I figured with the new tech coming up I'd better snag myself a variety of IS mechs.

Having 0 Skill Points on that thing and leveling it up to 91 was one of the worst experiences I've had so far in this game. Good lord it was terrible. Ultra-short range. Not tanky in the slightest with no skill points. Your shoulders get popped if someone just sneezes in your general direction. You can't fire your weapons more than about twice before overheating.

Figured it'd get better once I had all the skill points. So I diligently worked at leveling it up. Went full defensive tree first. And yeah, you get tanky. Except your buffs are structure quirks. So your SRM6s get crit out anyway once you lose armor on those STs. I'd routinely lose my SRM6 on a side as soon as the armor came off it. I mean, yeah, you aren't dead but your already meager firepower is just reduced that much more.

It did get better in the heat department after dumping tons of points into fixing it in the ST. Never amazing though.

It's basically just a bullet magnet which can't return fire. It never once felt like even a better than average mech to me while I was playing it. I'm not a stellar pilot by any means, but I can jump in plenty of different mechs and have 1k+ games. I never was under the impression while piloting the 4SP that I could have a phenomenal game. I've had 1k games in the Centurion, the Cicada, etc., but this medium IS mech? Nope.

I guess I could see how this mech might be a problem in Scouting if you're playing in a group with 4 of them? Then again, there are plenty of mechs that become a problem in that scenario. Griffins. Shadowhawks. Bushies. Cents. Novas. Huntsmen.

[PhoenixFire55]

If you want to balance SP compared to other Hunchbacks ... yet, it is.
If you want to balance SP compared to best performing mediums ... no, it isn't.

Given the fact that guy doing the balancing has no clue much like his predecessor, its just random.

[HGAK47]

Was the spider 5V nerf justified? How about the Locust 1V? I am quite sure at this point the list grows. I'm thinking I have two options right now...

1. Just play and accept that things change, sometimes randomly, SP will have to be allocated and reallocated all the time and mechs that work for me one day might well not seem so good after changes the next day.

2. Take a small break and wait for the dust to settle sometimes after the new tech drops.

[Angel of Annihilation]

Wattila, on 17 June 2017 - 10:36 AM, said:

Most likely a victim of spreadsheet balancing (I mean, the guy nerfed the IS Large Laser). Subjectively, the mech wasn't OP, and there was no mention of overperformance in the patch notes. I guess the designer just felt it (and the BLR-2C) had too strong structure quirks and decided to bring it in line just because. RIP.

Yeah we get too much of that going on. Numbers only tell part of the story, the other part it told when you are actually fighting against them or using them. Which brings me to ask. How many matches has this new balancing guy have under his belt. when he gets 50+ matches per chassis in all aspects of game play, then he might actually know how to balance a particular mech chassis.

Honestly I think that is the problem. I mean I got to ask exactly how many of devs who make balancing decisions play their game religiously and have a deep understanding of how things perform from general players perspective?