29 replies to this topic

[I_AM_ZUUL]

Viktor Drake, on 17 June 2017 - 02:26 PM, said:

the Clans got the worst of it.

So we can rightfully except to see IS dominating CW so badly that the 25 ton advantage will have to be removed.... ummmm?

Did not think so, so until cXL>XL is addressed then this is just over reaction to nothing important. Clan will always be brokenly OP and Clanners will always whine they are not OP enough cause "lore" though shockingly they NEVER want anything else from the Lore just the tech advantage.

[Mystere]

I_AM_ZUUL, on 17 June 2017 - 11:16 AM, said:

As long as you have Gyrok as the Ilkhan of Clan Crocodile Tears... IS will always be underwhelming about QQing just like their mechs

I could counter that with the eSpurts glory wannabes demanding Clan vs. IS balance even though only the most metawhoring cheese builds really matter regardless of faction.

Mechwarrior1441491, on 17 June 2017 - 01:03 PM, said:

So many years of wasted "balancing" that was just thrown out the window over and over.

Now imagine where the game could be if all of that wasted time, money, effort, and other very limited resources were spent on something else.

[I_AM_ZUUL]

Mystere, on 17 June 2017 - 02:36 PM, said:

eSpurts glory wannabes

They all play Clan... so I fail to see how that qualifies as a counterpoint. Only the WHR made the list of the MWOWC and that was purely because the server state was frozen when they had better Quirks and the NTG had not been released yet. So... when the entire teams are going to be Clan mechs this year, why you would think that any of them would be clamoring for "Balance" is beyond me.

[Mystere]

I_AM_ZUUL, on 17 June 2017 - 02:39 PM, said:

They all play Clan... so I fail to see how that qualifies as a counterpoint. Only the WHR made the list of the MWOWC and that was purely because the server state was frozen when they had better Quirks and the NTG had not been released yet. So... when the entire teams are going to be Clan mechs this year, why you would think that any of them would be clamoring for "Balance" is beyond me.

Precisely:

Mystere, on 17 June 2017 - 02:37 PM, said:

... even though only the most metawhoring cheese builds really matter regardless of faction.

I_AM_ZUUL, on 17 June 2017 - 02:33 PM, said:

So we can rightfully except to see IS dominating CW so badly that the 25 ton advantage will have to be removed.... ummmm?

Did not think so, so until cXL>XL is addressed then this is just over reaction to nothing important. Clan will always be brokenly OP and Clanners will always whine they are not OP enough cause "lore" though shockingly they NEVER want anything else from the Lore just the tech advantage.

Psst!

[vandalhooch]

Viktor Drake, on 17 June 2017 - 02:26 PM, said:

Except in this game balance is "nerfs and nerfs" to things within a game.

I mean when is the last time we saw or hell, have we ever seen patch notes that had more buffs than nerfs? Usually are we get is token buff here or there, while seeing blanket nerfs nearly across the board. Hell these last patch notes were just a series of nerfs across the board for everyone, both Clan and IS players, though the Clans got the worst of it.

So yeah, patch note and patch day are never something to get excited about in this game, because you always asking yourself just how much your going to get shafted this time.

Translation: "I love power creep! We should have constant power creep!"

[I_AM_ZUUL]

Mystere, on 17 June 2017 - 02:42 PM, said:

Psst!

"In that case ...

Clan vs. IS balance should have been guided by lore: Clans had better equipment; the IS had numbers (tonnage and/or Mechs), plus (and this is the part most detractors forget), a fully developed Community Warfare with maps and game modes to suit and both galactic and planetrary campaign systems to hold everything together. "

PGI is dog$hit at coding and choose to use Cryengine which is brutal itself. So 12 v 10 is out the window as well as BV never even being considered... so we have to work within the parameters we have, which means that asymmetrical balancing is NOT an option. Therefore symmetrical balancing has to be used... like addressing the core problem that they can easily fix with a simple line of code "Sides to Die:2" for XL engines. Getting rid of CW entirely would always go a long ways to being more interesting and/or just giving the QP option of having a Dropdeck. That is the most fun this game has to offer, even when having to deal with Clan superiority while doing. If it was just a mixed bag fighting with respawns then that would be a feature that would make me start spending money on this game again.

Edited by I_AM_ZUUL, 17 June 2017 - 02:49 PM.

[Mystere]

I_AM_ZUUL, on 17 June 2017 - 02:48 PM, said:

PGI is dog$hit at coding ...

Given the years of empirical evidence, I'm not even going to dare question that statement.

I_AM_ZUUL, on 17 June 2017 - 02:48 PM, said:

... and choose to use Cryengine which is brutal itself. So 12 v 10 is out the window ...

That is not really the fault of Cryengine, though.

I_AM_ZUUL, on 17 June 2017 - 02:48 PM, said:

... as well as BV never even being considered...

Frankly, I am not too sure about the usefulness of BV. But that's just me.

I_AM_ZUUL, on 17 June 2017 - 02:48 PM, said:

so we have to work within the parameters we have, which means that asymmetrical balancing is NOT an option. Therefore symmetrical balancing has to be used... like addressing the core problem that they can easily fix with a simple line of code "Sides to Die:2" for XL engines. Getting rid of CW entirely would always go a long ways to being more interesting and/or just giving the QP option of having a Dropdeck. That is the most fun this game has to offer, even when having to deal with Clan superiority while doing. If it was just a mixed bag fighting with respawns then that would be a feature that would make me start spending money on this game again.

Just imagine what the game could be now if PGI had spent all that time, effort, money, and other very limited resources on anything else other than the endless balancing/rebalancing with wild swings on either end and which have gone full circle many times over.

Instead we get "fixes", "workarounds", and "new game mechanics".

It's a shame really.

[A Shoddy Rental Mech]

Viktor Drake, on 17 June 2017 - 10:04 AM, said:

What is sad is that in most other games, I am excited to see the patch notes to see what improvement I am going to see coming to the game.

Not here though, nope. I read the patch notes to see what PGI has done this time around to reduce my enjoyment of their game.

In fact, I can't remember the last time I read patch notes for this game that left me not feeling, disgusted, frustrate and/or angry. Hell I can't remember the last time I have even read the patch note and felt any of the changes they made were going to have a positive impact on the game. Generally all I read is we've nerfed this, nerfed that and are nerfing things yet again just to make sure your not enjoying the game......oh an do you want to buy a Mech Pack??

Clan pilots are just now coming to realize what I.S. pilots all ready knew.

Anyone who piloted I.S. mechs in 2016 all ready knows the trepidation of reading the new patch notes.

The Nerf Bat, on 19 October 2016 - 11:57 PM, said:

Any I.S. mech that is viable for faction warfare must be whacked by The Nerf Bat.

Top tier I.S. mechs have already been whacked by The Nerf Bat including the Blackjack, Catapult, Warhammer, Maurader, Battlemaster, and Black Knight.

The Feb 20 patch was when the the Nerf Hammer hit.

PATCH NOTES - 1.4.53 - 16-FEB-2016
https://mwomercs.com...-1453-16feb2016

"All remaining negative/detrimental Weapon Quirks on Clan 'Mechs have been removed. A small amount of negative Armor and Turn Quirks remain for certain variants.
• All Inner Sphere Energy Range Quirks are now set at 10% (if present)."

In that patch they whacked the Blackjack with the nerf bat. On top of that the found a buff bat to hit the clan targeting computers. Just look at all the green(buffs) on the PDF of all Clan Quirk changes here .

Anything that was competitive was whacked. Patch after patch after patch.

April
Black Knight gets whacked
http://mwomercs.com/...rk%20Values.pdf

June
Black Knight gets whacked again
http://static.mwomer...006-21-2016.pdf

Resize I.S. mechs get big

July
Blackjack Catapult Warhammer Maurader Battlemaster
http://static.mwomer...rk%20Values.pdf

whack whack whack whack whack



Now we move onto the 2nd tier.

• Enforcer ENF-5P: UAC Jam Chance increased to -20% (from -30%).
• JagerMech JM6-DD: UAC Jam Chance increased to -20% (from -30%).

May or may not have copied some of this from the Faction warfare section

The only difference is, the I.S. wasn't winning everything. Tukayyid 2, Phase 3, Phase 4.1, Tukayyid 3

[Angel of Annihilation]

vandalhooch, on 17 June 2017 - 02:46 PM, said:

Translation: "I love power creep! We should have constant power creep!"

You have it all wrong.

Translation: "I love to have fun, we should have constant fun."

I mean seriously, what the hell is wrong thinking that things should be brought up to par rather than knocked down a notch??

Hell I advocated for a buff to IS XL engines to make them more comparable to Clan XL engines rather than nerfing Clan XL engines like they did. Are you going to tell me that choosing to nerf resulted in a more positive and fun gaming experience for everyone? Instead the IS players were still unhappy while the Clan players became disgruntled because they were nerfed. Woot, Win-Win there guys....not.

So while you might call it power creep, I call it putting a ceiling on things then making sure everyone can reach that ceiling.

[vandalhooch]

Viktor Drake, on 17 June 2017 - 03:26 PM, said:

You have it all wrong.

Considering that you are about to give a textbook example of how power creep works in games, no I don't have it all wrong.

Quote

Translation: "I love to have fun, we should have constant fun."

I mean seriously, what the hell is wrong thinking that things should be brought up to par rather than knocked down a notch??

If all you ever do is bring things up, then you are constantly raising the average. That's power creep.

Quote

Hell I advocated for a buff to IS XL engines to make them more comparable to Clan XL engines rather than nerfing Clan XL engines like they did. Are you going to tell me that choosing to nerf resulted in a more positive and fun gaming experience for everyone?

Yes. Because it didn't require making something in the game (IS XL engines) more powerful.

Quote

Instead the IS players were still unhappy while the Clan players became disgruntled because they were nerfed. Woot, Win-Win there guys....not.

Players are notoriously terrible at recognizing the signs of power creep until it is way too late. Better for a game in the long run to make choices that minimize power creep as much as possible. The introduction of Clan technology was a huge power creep step and this game has been in a continuous battle to reign it in ever since.

Quote

So while you might call it power creep, I call it putting a ceiling on things then making sure everyone can reach that ceiling.

Power creep. Power creep. Power creep.

Edit: Why it's bad - Power Creep.

Edited by vandalhooch, 17 June 2017 - 03:57 PM.