20 replies to this topic

[ingramli]

As title

As many said, IS' ACs are heavier and bulkier (take more tonnage and space), Clan' ACs should have some drawback.....i do agree, but the current state of cAC make it sort of a placeholder (i do rarely use cAC10 on some hot build since it is cooler than UAC10, though), the current state of clan is that it lack single shot ballistic guns other than the gauss, the balance could be maintained IMO, by adjusting the numbers, and differentiate the IS and the clan, for example,

Clans' are lighter and taking less slots (current state);
IS' ACs' cooldown is ~15% shorter than clan;
IS' ACs' generate ~10% less heat than clan;
Clan' ACs' range are ~4% longer than IS';

I knows PGI wont listen.......but it is my dream

[Mystere]

There are no such thing as Clan "ACs". Get rid of those abominations.

[Mcgral18]

You Could, with drawbacks...but I'd just up their velocity


isACs will also suffer with isUACs coming in
Give the normal ACs more velocity, to be easier to use, for less damage output


A 1200 M/s cAC20 sounds nicer than a 650M cAC20, doesn't it?
How about a 650M cUAC20? Eh...decisions to be made there

[Monkey Lover]

I would be fine with it as long as it was balanced.
Some of the standard balance junk,
1 less slot
1 ton less
increase nominal range but faster fall off
more heat
ghost heat

Edited by Monkey Lover, 17 June 2017 - 10:32 PM.

[Shifty McSwift]

The burst fire is IMO a good way of creating a sense of reasoning between taking an LBX over an AC, ACs you get the more pinpoint accuracy in a short stream, whereas with LBX you get a single blast at the cost of spread over large distances.

That basic idea just makes the AC vs LBX more of an actual choice. So I would say add that to all ACs, rather than make clan single slug.

The UACs potential in any case, kind of obsoletes these other versions, double or nothing is just way too good in those double moments.

[Brain Cancer]

Better yet, get rid of the placeholders entirely, preferrably with one mercy shot ala Old Yeller. Sadly, the (P)AC/2-4-8 series isn't until the 3070's, and would actually be a real weapon rather than something stuck in as a vestigal piece of making LB-X's work properly.

[Shifty McSwift]

Brain Cancer, on 17 June 2017 - 11:01 PM, said:

Better yet, get rid of the placeholders entirely, preferrably with one mercy shot ala Old Yeller. Sadly, the (P)AC/2-4-8 series isn't until the 3070's, and would actually be a real weapon rather than something stuck in as a vestigal piece of making LB-X's work properly.

Why drop out a perfectly good weapon though now that it is in? At the very least they could just buff LBXs cooldown or even flat damage, or change it up substantially to make it a different role ballistic entirely. It is also fine to be left as is really, as some don't mind it at all etc.

If IS UAC20 ends up as a double shot of single slugs, that thing will make most of the rest of the ACs in the game look average to laughable too, so IDK really. The idea of the single slug is cool and fun (AC20 feels like a cannonball lol), and even makes sense if you consider the LBX as the "buckshot" version of the "slug" round AC. It makes sense if you consider the AC as a shotgun like that but it is supposed to be more like an assault rifle, so again the burst-fire makes sense too.

[ingramli]

Shifty McSwift, on 17 June 2017 - 11:14 PM, said:

Why drop out a perfectly good weapon though now that it is in? At the very least they could just buff LBXs cooldown or even flat damage, or change it up substantially to make it a different role ballistic entirely. It is also fine to be left as is really, as some don't mind it at all etc.

If IS UAC20 ends up as a double shot of single slugs, that thing will make most of the rest of the ACs in the game look average to laughable too, so IDK really. The idea of the single slug is cool and fun (AC20 feels like a cannonball lol), and even makes sense if you consider the LBX as the "buckshot" version of the "slug" round AC. It makes sense if you consider the AC as a shotgun like that but it is supposed to be more like an assault rifle, so again the burst-fire makes sense too.

Balance is needed between spread shot and single slug is true, but the problem of the overall balance is the LBX being too weak (not enough damage output for its weight), nerfing single slug will only push people to gauss and ppcs. For the time being, pinpoint damage is still the ruler of the game.....if there are something that could change the situation, it would be (vastly) superior raw damage capabilities for spread weapon that compensate the spread. For instance, the LBX20 should do like 36~40 dmg if all shots hit the target (like MW4).

Edited by ingramli, 17 June 2017 - 11:44 PM.

[Shifty McSwift]

ingramli, on 17 June 2017 - 11:44 PM, said:

Balance is needed between spread shot and single slug is true, but the problem of the overall balance is the LBX being too weak (not enough damage output for its weight), nerfing single slug will only push people to gauss and ppcs. For the time being, pinpoint damage is still the ruler of the game.....if there are something that could change the situation, it would be (vastly) superior raw damage capabilities for spread weapon that compensate the spread. For instance, the LBX20 should do like 36~40 dmg if all shots hit the target (like MW4).

Yeah that could work too but then you are just pushing up the baseline damage levels a bit too much, people will start to complain about why an LBX is more reliable damage than an AC, and even higher damage potential than a UAC, plus you just posited a 40 damage splat shot weapon >.< that really seems dangerous to the idea of PPFLD, as at close enough ranges the LBX can do it, and it is a kind of fire and forget weapon that makes best usage of twisting capabilities etc.

Either way this topic inspired me to make an AC suggestion lol;
https://mwomercs.com...-ac-variations/

[Mystere]

Shifty McSwift, on 17 June 2017 - 11:14 PM, said:

Why drop out a perfectly good weapon though now that it is in? At the very least they could just buff LBXs cooldown or even flat damage, or change it up substantially to make it a different role ballistic entirely. It is also fine to be left as is really, as some don't mind it at all etc.

By getting rid of those abominations, PGI is then compelled (hopefully anyway ) to deal with the terrible LBXs.

[vibrant]

Mystere, on 18 June 2017 - 12:06 AM, said:

By getting rid of those abominations, PGI is then compelled (hopefully anyway ) to deal with the terrible LBXs.

Yeah, because PGI has a great track-record at fixing problems.

[ingramli]

Shifty McSwift, on 17 June 2017 - 11:52 PM, said:

people will start to complain about why an LBX is more reliable damage than an AC

the LBX should deal more damage at close range, and a piece of junk outside 300M, that is what a LBX suppose to be.

Shifty McSwift, on 17 June 2017 - 11:52 PM, said:

and even higher damage potential than a UAC

UAC able to deal tons of damage at mid range (300~500m, depends on it is a UAC10 or UAC20) compare to LBX and standard AC, at the expense of chances of jamming and spread of damage, that is what they should be.

Standard AC deal less raw damage compare to LBX and UAC, but in return get the capability of pinpoint damage, low heat and shorter cooldown to compete with them, that is what the topic is talking about, to sum up, my view is that, they should behave in this manner,

Standard AC
Strength : pinpoint damage, longest effective range, low heat
weakness: inferior in term of raw damage output (both dps and one shot damage)

UAC
Strength: high damage at range (compare to LBX)
weakness: chances to jam, spread damage (but somehow controllable with skills), highest heat generation of the three

LBX
Strength: Reliable extreme damage capabilities at close range (<150M)
Weakness: Spread damage, the damage capability is like a piece of junk outside 300M, regardless of caliber

[Jay Leon Hart]

Single slug Clan ACs? Sure! But they should deal half damage;
cAC2 = 1
cAC5 = 2.5
cAC10 = 5
cAC20 = 10
Welcome to the Inner Sphere! Where everything* is larger & heavier, but does less damage

*not really

[kutkip]

Well, i agree something should be done. It could be really easy to make them viable, just one ton less weight compared to uac's or much higher velocity should work as well.

[Khobai]

Quote

By getting rid of those abominations, PGI is then compelled (hopefully anyway ) to deal with the terrible LBXs.

when has PGI ever been compelled to do anything players want?

PGI does what PGI wants. they always have. Its why they constantly hemorrhage their player base. The only ones left are the hardcore battletech fans that have no other choice for a multiplayer battletech game.

and the few times they have listened to players, things get fixed like 6-12 months later, and its too little too late because the damage is already done. theyve created an irreparable rift with their player base that will probably never be mended.

Quote

Well, i agree something should be done. It could be really easy to make them viable, just one ton less weight compared to uac's or much higher velocity should work as well.

They could just turn them into HAGs too. As a clan player I feel pretty disappointed we didnt get HAGs.

HAGs would give clans a useful new weapon that IS isnt getting a mirror version of. And yeah I dont think ATMs will be very useful because theyll suffer from all the same problems as LRMs.

Edited by Khobai, 18 June 2017 - 07:28 AM.

[WrathOfDeadguy]

I... actually kinda agree with making CACs single-shot. CLBX is single-shot. CAC is CLBX with slug loads. CAC fires smaller projectiles.

So... CLBX magically converts to a smaller-caliber gun when you switch the ammo load?

That does not compute. You can't just dump a pile of .223 in a 12ga magazine and expect a Remington 870 to become a Colt M4.

Other factors could be used to bring them into line, but... yeah. Make 'em singles or just take them out of the game. Current implementation is silly.

[Jay Leon Hart]

WrathOfDeadguy, on 18 June 2017 - 08:03 AM, said:

Make 'em singles or just take them out of the game. Current implementation is silly.

I vote for the latter, but if they did the former...
Less damage?
Less range?
More heat?
Lower velocity?

It needs a different drawback compared to the IS version, if we're removing the burst fire.

[kutkip]

It would be great if they would make them single shot, but it would be much more work i guess. Only adjusting one value would be a simple solution, at least for the time being.

Well at least they sound cool

[Angel of Annihilation]

Shifty McSwift, on 17 June 2017 - 10:49 PM, said:

The burst fire is IMO a good way of creating a sense of reasoning between taking an LBX over an AC, ACs you get the more pinpoint accuracy in a short stream, whereas with LBX you get a single blast at the cost of spread over large distances.

That basic idea just makes the AC vs LBX more of an actual choice. So I would say add that to all ACs, rather than make clan single slug.

The UACs potential in any case, kind of obsoletes these other versions, double or nothing is just way too good in those double moments.

The thing is, is that the CAC are just placeholders for the solid slug version of LBX cannons. PGI dropped them into the game because they were having trouble coding in the ammo swap. Over the years, CACs just got swept under the rug and promptly forgotten about mostly because no one really ever used them. The reason they didn't is because they are just broken. That being the case, I sincerely don't understand why they haven't been converted to single shot ACs if for no other reason than to give them a purpose. I mean they would never replace the UAC as the go to weapon of choice but if they were single slug versions, I would probably use them on some of my Clan mechs that only had room for 1 large ballistic simply because unless boated, UACs are unreliable and a liability.

[Brain Cancer]

Because they won't be canon weaponry, for starters. And they'll instantly mess with (P)AC's, which will show up in the next decade-timeline jump. Those are actually statted really well for a single-shot AC Clantech weapon.