35 replies to this topic

[Deathlike]

Ten Roos, on 18 June 2017 - 03:54 AM, said:

Serious Question not implying cheating,

just played with.. and then against 3 x time 228.

Now that I am tier 2 I expect to come up against better players than me. But what i don't get is how teams like 228... MMC w/e can get in our rear like 15 seconds into the game. And its not like one mech but like 3-4 and not all lights.

Last game 4 of us did zero dmg.... seriously four of us.. because 228 was in our backside before we moved out of our spawn point.

Is there a trick to this. And is there a defense?


Again not implying cheating, just want to learn. I watch comp matches online and dont see this. .. just asking how do u defend against this?

Comp Teams must know.. any hints?

There's always Seismic.

TKSax, on 18 June 2017 - 08:01 AM, said:

If it is the 228 guys I am think he is talking about we drop with and against them like 5 times. The were running 2 Victor 9s(c) and 1 Executioner all brawl. They did get to our backs pretty quick on a match we had with them in Tomourline (not with the OP) but we were able to turn on them and focus them down and win the game, they took a few of the team out but we were able to handle it.

Well, dropping vs the same opponents is partly population and partly MM, and the uselessness of PSR.

Although anticipation of aggression (depending on location and path to target(s)) is usually pretty significant in determining how fights ago.

[Vellron2005]

I've seen this one guy go off like a maniac when we dropped on Mining Colony.. he was like "we have 22 seconds to catch their assault lance in the rear, move move move!"

Naturally, the team did not follow his lead.. we had a regular game, and lost like 12:8.. and then again he went off saying "if you had listened to me, we could have caught their rear and would have won, blah blah blah.."

He was kinda annoying, but I think therein lies your answer..

Comp teams play enough to know exactly how many seconds it takes them from A to B, to perform a maneuver or strategy, and they are coordinated like clockwork.. that is why what the OP described happens sometimes...

[Roadbuster]

15 seconds? No.
Letting them get in your back without noticing and firing back is the mistake.

If you are in a slow lance, expect that something might come for you. The rest of your team should do the same and cover the fatties instead of nascaring around.

If you are unlucky and get jumped from behind, stop running away. You'll never make it.
Let your team know by targeting the enemy mechs, popping a UAV or shouting for help with the command wheel.

Turn around to face the incomming mechs and try to position in a way which makes it hard for them to get into your back.

Help your teammates!
If one of your lancemates gets attacked, don't run away and abandon your mate. 4 mechs firing at 4 mechs is alot better than letting 4 mechs fire at 1 of your teammates.

If you can hold yourself long enough and your team isn't made of potatoes, you might even be able to kill the attackers, giving your team an advantage.


But seriously, 0 damage should never happen.
Watch your surroundings, don't forget that the enemy can have ECM, use your targeting device #1 -> your eyes.

Edited by Roadbuster, 20 June 2017 - 07:36 AM.

[MischiefSC]

Vellron2005, on 20 June 2017 - 01:28 AM, said:

I've seen this one guy go off like a maniac when we dropped on Mining Colony.. he was like "we have 22 seconds to catch their assault lance in the rear, move move move!"

Naturally, the team did not follow his lead.. we had a regular game, and lost like 12:8.. and then again he went off saying "if you had listened to me, we could have caught their rear and would have won, blah blah blah.."

He was kinda annoying, but I think therein lies your answer..

Comp teams play enough to know exactly how many seconds it takes them from A to B, to perform a maneuver or strategy, and they are coordinated like clockwork.. that is why what the OP described happens sometimes...

80 KPH is about 22 meters ever second, so unless you were only 600m from the other teams spawn I'm not sure how that's possible. Unless it was a lance of lights; that would get you within 200m of a target 1k away (which is about the right distance on most maps) in 22 seconds.

Good teams absolutely know the math and positioning, optimal routes and ideal firing lanes on just about every map. That's part of what makes them good teams and why they win. The tendency of most pugs to ignore good advice is exactly why they lose to good players consistently.

[Deathlike]

MischiefSC, on 20 June 2017 - 08:34 AM, said:

80 KPH is about 22 meters ever second, so unless you were only 600m from the other teams spawn I'm not sure how that's possible. Unless it was a lance of lights; that would get you within 200m of a target 1k away (which is about the right distance on most maps) in 22 seconds.

Good teams absolutely know the math and positioning, optimal routes and ideal firing lanes on just about every map. That's part of what makes them good teams and why they win. The tendency of most pugs to ignore good advice is exactly why they lose to good players consistently.

"Don't stop @ the chokepoint." Pug stops @ chokepoint.

Sometimes it's the reason why I get frustrated over bad play....

I dunno, sometimes even the most obvious and common straightforward no-BS (aka, I want to win with you) hints get ignored by PUGs. I dunno what to tell people these days.

[JediPanther]

Having been in cw for two years in a unit the secret is some thing that is a complete mystery in solo q and pug land called team work and communication. if you use both of those during the same match you are almost always guaranteed to win.

[razenWing]

You guys are forgetting about tourmaline desert... That map has 2 spawn points of opposite team literally right next to one another. And seeing how group que has preset random spawn position, if you got 4 assault stuck there, you are god damn boned. So... That's entirely on PGI.

As for 228... I have never fought ibr, but the rest of their squads seem pretty beatable. (At least won't be a trounce against like EMP). This doesn't speak to whether EMP is better... But I like 228 in that they will try different start and mech outside of meta. So it's not fighting boring counterstrike bunny rifle every single time. (Which means, anyone dropping against 228 can actually be fun by not being forced to meta all the time. But thank God those god tier monsters like EMP will all be gone... After today's patch! They won't be missed)

Edited by razenWing, 20 June 2017 - 10:02 AM.

[Roughneck45]

Position the mechs legs to take the shortest possible route to the fight or flank.

Seriously.

Nearly 100% of the time I'm the first one at the front line in an 81 kph ebon jag in QP because the pugs don't take corners well and don't walk in a straight line the shortest possible distance.

[Escef]

Roughneck45, on 20 June 2017 - 10:06 AM, said:

Position the mechs legs to take the shortest possible route to the fight or flank.

Seriously.

Nearly 100% of the time I'm the first one at the front line in an 81 kph ebon jag in QP because the pugs don't take corners well and don't walk in a straight line the shortest possible distance.

Honestly, part of that is because people are timid. I can be the first on the front line in a freakin' Dire Wolf. People just lollygag about with their thumbs up their hindquarters.

[Magnus Santini]

People don't look around where they are standing. Zero damage should not happen for a lance. But if four mechs backshoot you, it should be an insta-kill, zero damage.

[Escef]

Magnus Santini, on 20 June 2017 - 10:22 AM, said:

People don't look around where they are standing. Zero damage should not happen for a lance. But if four mechs backshoot you, it should be an insta-kill, zero damage.

Yeah, in my experience assault players are some of the most oblivious mother f***ers out there.

[PhoenixFire55]

razenWing, on 20 June 2017 - 09:59 AM, said:

You guys are forgetting about tourmaline desert... That map has 2 spawn points of opposite team literally right next to one another. And seeing how group que has preset random spawn position, if you got 4 assault stuck there, you are god damn boned. So... That's entirely on PGI.

LOL .. yeah right. Those two spawns that are "next to each other" are actually about 1km apart. Most of it is open ground, sure, but said open ground can be sniped by both teams equally.

[Burke IV]

razenWing, on 20 June 2017 - 09:59 AM, said:

So it's not fighting boring counterstrike bunny rifle every single time.

Lol... iv always kept it to myself but ever sinse the start the whole poptart ppfld meta has always looked like an attempt to turn a battlemech into an awp switch scripter

[SilentWolff]

Some of this issue is the crap maps and drop points. PGI has never understood their own game, let alone how comp players exploit their lack of understanding. Maps should be bigger. Drop points should be closer together. But it's just a waste of breath at this point.

[Hal Greaves]

thats a pretty cut and dry tactic fam

isolate lone lance-> shove fast mechs down their throat

when you move 80+ KPH its easy to get places but you have to commit from drop

linebackers are exceedingly good at bringing halfway competent firepower somewhere fast but if the team expects it they can overcome it because they have to sacrifice to get said firepower and even then its not enough compared to something like a night gyr or a warhammer. They are banking on catching these mechs out of position and focusing them down instead, which is valid and effective really.

Which is the key here, the whole team needs to be on the lookout for that, and most PUG drops dont have this.

Edited by Hal Greaves, 20 June 2017 - 11:41 AM.

[razenWing]

PhoenixFire55, on 20 June 2017 - 10:28 AM, said:

LOL .. yeah right. Those two spawns that are "next to each other" are actually about 1km apart. Most of it is open ground, sure, but said open ground can be sniped by both teams equally.

Um... so it doesn't count unless 228 physically run right next to them? OP said the fight occur 15 seconds into the match, that matches the description. Anything else?