13 replies to this topic

[fireball 4]

Hello, I am trying to set up a TT game based on Captain Benjamin Horn's last stand on Palmyra in 3134. Due to the fact that they he and the rest of the Davion forces were wiped out FM 3145 does not list the units that Davion would have on the planet. It does say however what forces were there. Also does anyone know if the experience of the Davion forces had degraded in the time after the jihad?

If there is anything in the fiction about this please let me know. I will be keeping a list of forces below. Thanks

I know that Horn was in a Vulpes and that half of his company had survived the initial assault. so counting him there is at max 6 heavy guards for the battle. The others will be survivors that he found. I also know that the op-for is a company from one of the swards of light. I do not know which.

Davion:

Heavy guards:
Vulpus

DCMS:

Sward of Light:

Edited by fireball 4, 19 June 2017 - 09:14 AM.

[Karl Streiger]

FM3145;

DCMS;
Seventh New Samarkand Regulars


AFFS Units Lost in the Ambush at Palmyra

2nd Federated Suns Armored Cavalry

1st Federated Suns Lancers LCT

1st Royal Cavaliers

22nd Avalon Hussars LCT

27th Avalon Hussars LCT

5th Ceti Hussars LCT

2nd Crucis Lancers

4th Crucis Lancers

7th Crucis Lancers

Davion Heavy Guards RCT

2nd Davion Guards RCT

3rd Davion Guards RCT

3rd Robinson Strikers LCT


in FM3085 is said that the damage to control and command was devastating, plus there was a shift in the stance. The Davions before the Civil War and Jihad did act and were easy with starting a war, the later Davion were centered arround peace, don't forget that the economy of the Federatede Suns was on war footing since 3050 - so civilan infrastructur was shattered - there was the need for ploughs not swords

[fireball 4]

thanks for the reply Karl. im not sure how the dcms thing will help as it was the sward of light that was in the final battle which is what we were recreating. as for the list of losses i do have that from FM 3145, but it is good to have it here for those that dont know. the last bit will could be helpful, however im not sure how much as the battle takes place some time after the initial invasion and the Davion forces have been fighting a guerrilla war. what im realy looking for is what mechs were likely in the fight. it is known that the Sward of Light was 12 strong.

[Metus regem]

Karl Streiger, on 18 June 2017 - 11:06 PM, said:

FM3145;

DCMS;
Seventh New Samarkand Regulars


AFFS Units Lost in the Ambush at Palmyra

2nd Federated Suns Armored Cavalry

1st Federated Suns Lancers LCT

1st Royal Cavaliers

22nd Avalon Hussars LCT

27th Avalon Hussars LCT

5th Ceti Hussars LCT

2nd Crucis Lancers

4th Crucis Lancers

7th Crucis Lancers

Davion Heavy Guards RCT

2nd Davion Guards RCT

3rd Davion Guards RCT

3rd Robinson Strikers LCT


in FM3085 is said that the damage to control and command was devastating, plus there was a shift in the stance. The Davions before the Civil War and Jihad did act and were easy with starting a war, the later Davion were centered arround peace, don't forget that the economy of the Federatede Suns was on war footing since 3050 - so civilan infrastructur was shattered - there was the need for ploughs not swords

How the heck did the AFFS lose so badly?!?

The Heavy Guards are an elite unit... not to mention a few other veteran to elite units in that list.... were their drop-ships shot down? Or were they glassed from orbit?

[FLG 01]

Glassed from orbit, then mopped up. The Prince made the mistake of concentrating his forces and trusting the Ravens to cover him. The Ravens never came and a sneak attack eliminated his only WarShip, leaving the troops on the ground an easy target for the Combine's WarShips.

[Metus regem]

FLG 01, on 19 June 2017 - 08:35 AM, said:

Glassed from orbit, then mopped up. The Prince made the mistake of concentrating his forces and trusting the Ravens to cover him. The Ravens never came and a sneak attack eliminated his only WarShip, leaving the troops on the ground an easy target for the Combine's WarShips.

Okay that makes sense... bad leadership, insufficient escort and not securing orbital supremacy first.

[fireball 4]

it was also bc the prince at the time. but he's dead now so that makes it better. still the heavy guards were lost. this battle is about the last stand on the planet led by one of their commanders.

[fireball 4]

ps the battle takes place in 3134

[Metus regem]

fireball 4, on 19 June 2017 - 09:06 AM, said:

it was also bc the prince at the time. but he's dead now so that makes it better. still the heavy guards were lost. this battle is about the last stand on the planet led by one of their commanders.

Not much of a last stand against a Warship in orbit that isn't against glassing you or the area you are in....

Also about 3145, no wonder it doesn't make any sense for it to have happened.... everything about dark age and after is just nuts... so many utterly bonkers things happened then...

[SMDMadCow]

You will get better replies here:
http://bg.battletech.com/forums/

[Karl Streiger]

Metus regem, on 19 June 2017 - 09:21 AM, said:

Not much of a last stand against a Warship in orbit that isn't against glassing you or the area you are in....

Also about 3145, no wonder it doesn't make any sense for it to have happened.... everything about dark age and after is just nuts... so many utterly bonkers things happened then...

The glassing happened by Pocket Warships so the bombardement did lack the destructive force.
The other difference about for example New Avalon during the 3rd transfer was that although the word had 3 real warships in space - they had the population on their side, they did know the terrain and their leader was Jackson Davion - on of those charismatic persons that did made the FedSuns a Great House.
Caleb lacked charisma and finesse -

About doesn't make sense? Like Dromini IV? Total stupid of the Dracs to let their jump Jets get crippled by lyran suicide bombers

[FLG 01]

Karl Streiger, on 19 June 2017 - 10:16 AM, said:

About doesn't make sense? Like Dromini IV? Total stupid of the Dracs to let their jump Jets get crippled by lyran suicide bombers

Not a fair comparison. The sabotage of non-critical parts of the JumpShips in the Dromini system relies on a successful commando raid against an unusual and thus relatively undefended target (like the helium tanks). And the actual work needed to be done by elite Mech regiments following the doomed 10th.

The narrative of the Palmyra disaster on the other hand relies on a long, long string of critical errors committed by an insane man, and a number of otherwise competent but now hapless commanders going along with it. Oh, and betrayal. The Raven Alliance not only never showed up, it began attacking FedSuns systems soon after.

I think the only other BattleTech-narrative similarly designed to the disadvantage of one faction was the 4th SW's Davion infiltration of the Capellan leadership.
And everybody knows how Capellan fans feel about that one.

Edited by FLG 01, 19 June 2017 - 10:57 AM.

[Metus regem]

FLG 01, on 19 June 2017 - 10:36 AM, said:

Not a fair comparison. The sabotage of non-critical parts of the JumpShips in the Dromini system relies on a successful commando raid against an unusual and thus relatively undefended target (like the helium tanks). And the actual work needed to be done by elite Mech regiments following the doomed 10th.

The narrative of the Palmyra disaster on the other hand relies on a long, long string of critical errors committed by an insane man, and a number of otherwise competent but now hapless commanders going along with it. Oh, and betrayal. The Raven Alliance not only never showed up, it began attacking FedSuns systems soon after.

I think the only other BattleTech-narrative similarly designed to the disadvantage of one faction was the 4th SW's Davion infiltration of the Capellan leadership.
And everybody knows how Capellan fans feel about that one.

In other words, authors not thinking how things would actually work.... the First Prince is the head of the military, but he field marshals are the ones that make the actual decisions... Also where was D.M.I. in all of this, they would've vetted the entire plan long before it was ever given the go-ahead....

[Karl Streiger]

Would not be the first nor the last time in human history - although they know it better they followed

Same for critical lucky strikes. Like the unknown Thunderbolt pilot in June/July that saved the war. (By destruction of the Taifun weaponsystem only minutes before it should have been used against the Allied staging area in the Normandy (Aerosol style)) maybe this story is not truth, maybe it is we'll never know.