50 replies to this topic

[Deathlike]

Brain Cancer, on 19 June 2017 - 12:37 PM, said:

If I thought PGI could manage it, sure. This is the team that can't switch ammo, I'm seriously concerned about them being able to swap velocity.

Coding that would require a miracle or something.

[Andi Nagasia]

Big Tin Man, on 19 June 2017 - 11:24 AM, said:

I haven't paid attention because I haven't run a lrm mech in ages. Does the velocity items in the skill tree buff LRM speed, or just ppc/ballistics?

If it buffed missile speed, there you go.

160m + 10% = 176, well i guess your right, but that doesnt matter as Range Skill also Effect AMS,

Prosperity Park, on 19 June 2017 - 12:32 PM, said:

Progressive acceleration.

That is the answer.

Velocity that increases with distance traveled so the flight time to distant targets is not much longer than that to a medium target. LRMs work best at medium range because of travel time, so normalize travel time with continually accelerating missiles.

this could work, but with that i would say LRMs would still need to go faster at start,
perhaps 200m/s at 0m, ending around 500m/s at 900m,(so 266m/s @ 200m)(so 365m/s @ 500m)

[Big Tin Man]

...so nobody here remembers what happened when LRM speed was buffed to 200 m/s before?

I believe that triggered lurmageddon #2. I think it was 200 m/s. Anyway, it got a speed buff and nobody could find cover anywhere.

[Palfatreos]

Mystere, on 19 June 2017 - 11:59 AM, said:

Do you know what? Whenever someone says "share armor", I get visions of this:

Now that a juicy target for my 2 strikes i bet i can get 1k+ per strike for that.

[Kubernetes]

Big Tin Man, on 19 June 2017 - 01:11 PM, said:

...so nobody here remembers what happened when LRM speed was buffed to 200 m/s before?

I believe that triggered lurmageddon #2. I think it was 200 m/s. Anyway, it got a speed buff and nobody could find cover anywhere.

It was more than that. And yeah, that may have been the only time that LRMs were truly OP. Velocity makes all the difference in the world for missiles, ballistics, and PPCs.

Mystere, on 19 June 2017 - 11:59 AM, said:

Do you know what? Whenever someone says "share armor", I get visions of this:

A very good player once explained to me, "If you're not getting shot at, your teammate is getting shot twice." Of course, if you know you're the Big Dog wearing Carry Pants on your team, maybe you need to ensure you stay alive till the end, but otherwise....

Edited by Kubernetes, 19 June 2017 - 01:28 PM.

[ShadeofHades]

MrJeffers, on 19 June 2017 - 10:31 AM, said:

Um, they are not even close. LRM Missiles 160 m/s. Locust ~154 KPh. 154Kph = 2.56 K/m = .042 K/s = 42 m/s

Thanks. For some reason I was comparing the throttle readout number with no conversion - apparently I left my brain cells in neutral today.

That said, I'd still say that a Locust moving at 25% of a missile's speed is a bit ridiculous, but certainly not 'close' as I was first thinking.

[Andi Nagasia]

Big Tin Man, on 19 June 2017 - 01:11 PM, said:

...so nobody here remembers what happened when LRM speed was buffed to 200 m/s before?

I believe that triggered lurmageddon #2. I think it was 200 m/s. Anyway, it got a speed buff and nobody could find cover anywhere.

200m/s LRMs(+40m/s Buff(25% increase) would only decrease LRM hit time from 8seconds to 6.8seconds
so you would only lost a second to dodge at max Range, assuming you cant find cover in 6.8 seconds,

[Reno Blade]

Big Tin Man, on 19 June 2017 - 01:11 PM, said:

...so nobody here remembers what happened when LRM speed was buffed to 200 m/s before?

I believe that triggered lurmageddon #2. I think it was 200 m/s. Anyway, it got a speed buff and nobody could find cover anywhere.

Andi Nagasia, on 19 June 2017 - 01:25 PM, said:

200m/s LRMs(+40m/s Buff(25% increase) would only decrease LRM hit time from 8seconds to 6.8seconds
so you would only lost a second to dodge at max Range, assuming you cant find cover in 6.8 seconds,

Oh I remember that...
I was rooting for high verlocity LRMs back then and then they got the buff (from 100 or 120m/s ? to 200-240m/s? ) ...

Yes, I liked the short travel time, but overall it seemed to be "too good" for the games players.

I would like to have LRMs that go faster, but are less of a primary weapon, more support like (strong, but long cd).
Maybe with longer cd (lets say 2x ) and 200-240m/s velocity, the LRMs would be more useful, but at the same time you would not be obliterated by indirect fire-SPAM (because longer cd) so it might not feel as worse as it feels now to be under fire.

And I would also love to have "aiming" target points for missiles (e.g. lock 5 sections of the mech under the reticule with your aiming skills rather than the "red box" lock-on).

Edited by Reno Blade, 19 June 2017 - 01:35 PM.

[Andi Nagasia]

Reno Blade, on 19 June 2017 - 01:34 PM, said:

Oh I remember that...
I was rooting for high verlocity LRMs back then and then they got the buff (from 100 or 120m/s ? to 200-240m/s? ) ...

Yes, I liked the short travel time, but overall it seemed to be "too good" for the games players.

I would like to have LRMs that go faster, but are less of a primary weapon, more support like (strong, but long cd).
Maybe with longer cd (lets say 2x ) and 200-240m/s velocity, the LRMs would be more useful, but at the same time you would not be obliterated by indirect fire-SPAM (because longer cd) so it might not feel as worse as it feels now to be under fire.

And I would also love to have "aiming" target points for missiles (e.g. lock 5 sections of the mech under the reticule with your aiming skills rather than the "red box" lock-on).

well if the Rain is too much, then increase the cooldown,
i would rather wait 10seconds for a 300m/s reliable LRM System,
then 6 seconds for one thats only good sometimes maybe,

[Navid A1]

This is mock up i made a long long time ago for LRM velocity:

[Brain Cancer]

Quote

...so nobody here remembers what happened when LRM speed was buffed to 200 m/s before?

175. Which wasn't a lurmageddon.

That was the higher angle of fire that turned LRMs into cockpit/CT obliterators. But potatoes were crying that the bad LRMs were actually hitting them more often, so it got cranked back to 160.

Incidentally, with velocity buffs LRMs fire at 176 right now (160 + 10% (16) = 176.

Notice everyone going down in burning heaps from LRM fire? No?

Surprise!

[Mystere]

Big Tin Man, on 19 June 2017 - 01:11 PM, said:

...so nobody here remembers what happened when LRM speed was buffed to 200 m/s before?

I believe that triggered lurmageddon #2. I think it was 200 m/s. Anyway, it got a speed buff and nobody could find cover anywhere.

That so-called "lurmageddon" was in the eyes of the beholder. To me, it was "glorious".

Kubernetes, on 19 June 2017 - 01:21 PM, said:

A very good player once explained to me, "If you're not getting shot at, your teammate is getting shot twice." Of course, if you know you're the Big Dog wearing Carry Pants on your team, maybe you need to ensure you stay alive till the end, but otherwise....

Ah! But an old sensei taught me long ago that, if you are seen, then you are as good as dead.

Edited by Mystere, 19 June 2017 - 03:23 PM.

[Mystere]

Navid A1, on 19 June 2017 - 02:10 PM, said:

This is mock up i made a long long time ago for LRM velocity:

Nah! I much preferred the "corkscrew".

[Big Tin Man]

Brain Cancer, on 19 June 2017 - 02:51 PM, said:

175. Which wasn't a lurmageddon.

I just dug out the old patch notes. 3/18/14 Patch--LRM speed increase from 120 m/s to 175 m/s. At the time it was a big step forward. IIRC, this was also before radar derp, or early enough that it wasn't widespread.

edit: screenshake was also at a 0.3 instead of the current 0.1(?). You couldn't see straight at all.

Edited by Big Tin Man, 19 June 2017 - 03:38 PM.

[El Bandito]

180 m/s in indirect fire. 270 m/s when direct firing. That's a good base stats to start from IMO.

[FupDup]

The problem with LRMs goes far deeper than their XML values. Their problem is mechanical function. Buffing or nerfing the XML values will not change this.

[UnofficialOperator]

1. Increase angle of attack
2. Increase lurm speed
3. ???
4. Profit!

[InvictusLee]

HELL YES.
JUST HELL YES.

[Andi Nagasia]

FupDup, on 19 June 2017 - 06:09 PM, said:

The problem with LRMs goes far deeper than their XML values. Their problem is mechanical function. Buffing or nerfing the XML values will not change this.

agreed, but this even as a short term fix can help greatly,

[Ruar]

Andi Nagasia, on 19 June 2017 - 08:21 PM, said:

agreed, but this even as a short term fix can help greatly,

Not really. What it will do is just kick the ball down the road until LRMs are truly changed so they are meaningful without being OP. "OP... how can you say OP... *standard rebuttal about LRMs being crap and not used in competitive play*". Oh, and there's all the counters to keep LRMs even somewhat reasonable. I mean, if they were crap why have all the counters every LRM user likes to complain about?

Any boost to LRMs right now boosts their ability to home on a target 900m away. Combine this with multiple LRM boats and you have dramatically strong indirect capability. Increase velocity just makes that ability worse while not doing enough to make direct fire worth using.

So please, just stop with the band aid propositions because they are short term changes which will skew the game and create long term problems.

The only discussion should be about the long term solution of how to make LRMs effective at direct fire while being capable of indirect fire. That's it. Anything else is just making the game worse.

Edited by Ruar, 19 June 2017 - 08:32 PM.