19 replies to this topic

[Andi Nagasia]

currently PGI is working to try to make Pulse Lasers better for DPS,
as such last patch most have their damage as well as cooldowns reduced,

since then many have made Topics about how C-SPLs and PGI,
some have been calling that C-SPLs were fine and didnt need what they got,
some have said that the Nerf was justified but perhaps hit alittle too hard,


personally i think this is PGI working on Balance,
and also looking to new Tech thats soon to be released into MWO,
namely Heavy Lasers for Clan and ER Lasers(ML&SL) for IS,

C-SPL Stats,
Weapon,...Damage,...Duration,...Heat,... Range,...Cooldown,...Weight,..
Old C-SPL,....6,............0.75,..........3,.......165m,........2.25s,.........1Ton,...
New C-SPL,...4,.............0.6,.........2.7,.....165m,........2.00s,.........1Ton,...

C-Heavy SL TT Stats,
now assuming the HSL has the Similar Dam/SecDuration as the ERML,
(which is -0.04Dam/SecDuration from ERSLs as HSLs have much shorter range)
-
Weapon,...Damage,...Duration,...Heat,... Range,...Cooldown,...Weight,..
C-SPL,...........6,.............1.08,..........3,........90m,..........???,........0.5Ton,...
(which is 0.02 shorter than the C-ERSL Duration, for less than half the Range)


so with this it seems that the Utility for those who liked the C-SPL and its damage Profile,
is being transferred to the HSL, allowing for PGIs vision of Pulse Lasers becoming DPS weapons,

Thoughts Comments Concerns?
Thanks

Edited by Andi Nagasia, 21 June 2017 - 11:37 AM.

[MadRover]

The problem lies what they used as a baseline to make these changes in the first place. They used the worst weapon in the game, Inner Sphere SL and based all of their changes on that hunk of garbage. Now, people have been saying cSPL needed to be toned down by 1damage/shot, and after using it extensively I do agree that would put the weapon in line without breaking it. Most would've been alright with a 1.5damage reduction while keeping all the IS small lasers untouched. Instead they nuked it into the ground because they've used the absolute worst weapon as a baseline instead of the Inner Sphere ML or by going what people were suggesting.

Also, theory balance is an improper and irresponsible way to balance the game. You are not using the known set of data to balance the current game. If a developer is trying to, in all intents and purposes, make people rejoice at the new tech coming in you have what's called flavor of the season. Flavor of the season balance is a great way to make people very upset and you have the potential to drive them away because of it. Destiny PvP (not to bring anything other than a comparison in) did exactly that with flavor of the month balance and it drove people away and those forums were filled with nothing but toxicity into an environment that is detrimental for the dev teams to even get things as close to right as possible in the first place.

All in all, this patch is an utter disaster because they did not do anything except slap a really rotten band aid onto the current problem and simply made 1 set of weapons replace another set of weapons and called it a day. The same will be said on the mech side of things. We are playing this game for fun, not as a job and if they think that I believe a great deal of us need to be compensated for it with an actual check and I hear that's bad for business.

[Verkhne]

well that's one way to make the new weapons a required c-bill sink...

[Tarl Cabot]

Just adding this as a timeline of how the cSPL was originally handled.

Quote

cSPL dmg/heat

Lore: 3 dmg / 2 heat

MWO June 2014: initially 3.4 dmg / 3.4 heat
MWO July 2014: increased to 4.4 dmg / 3.4 heat
MWO Nov 2014: Increased to 6.0 dmg / 3.0 heat
MWO June 2017: Decrease to 4.0 dmg / 2.7 heat

MWO Dec 2014: Release of Community Warfare aka Faction Play

Pulse Lasers had a -2 gunnery hit modifier. Heavy Lasers had a +1 gunnery hit modifier.

Edited by Tarl Cabot, 21 June 2017 - 03:50 PM.

[Y E O N N E]

TBQH, I don't think the new damage value on the cSPL is that far off when taken in context of the other changes made to it. I think they went a half point too far on damage reduction and two tenths of a point too short on the heat reduction. As it is, it's too hot for its damage on the smaller 'Mechs and it doesn't have a high enough burn-time DPS to justify taking it over the cERSL for an extra half ton.

If they want to make DPS weapon out of it, it needs to be cold enough that it's not heat-limited in most engagements and it needs to, you know, have good enough DPS. I don't think the 1.54 DPS it offers is enough when it's still very much heat-limited like it is.

[FupDup]

The Heavy SL is almost certainly going to just be flat out better than the new CSPL if it turns out anything remotely close to its TT stats.

Note that it will probably be 4 heat though, because the CERSL is already 3 heat.

[Andi Nagasia]

FupDup, on 21 June 2017 - 05:09 PM, said:

The Heavy SL is almost certainly going to just be flat out better than the new CSPL if it turns out anything remotely close to its TT stats.

Note that it will probably be 4 heat though, because the CERSL is already 3 heat.

dont think so, because of its range no one would use it over the normal C-ERSL,
+1Damage, +1Heat, -110m Range(remember its range is only 90m)
perhaps a +0.5Heat, but not much more than that,

[STEF_]

Verkhne, on 21 June 2017 - 01:23 PM, said:

well that's one way to make the new weapons a required c-bill sink...

New weapons?
wait and see how much sink for the LFE....... LOL

[Summon3r]

there is no way to justify what was done to the cspl PERIOD

[Tarl Cabot]

Summon3r, on 21 June 2017 - 05:44 PM, said:

there is no way to justify what was done to the cspl PERIOD

There was not justification for PGI to it up that way when they made the two set of changes in 2014.

Edited by Tarl Cabot, 21 June 2017 - 05:48 PM.

[FupDup]

Tarl Cabot, on 21 June 2017 - 05:47 PM, said:

There was not justification for PGI to it up that way when they made the two set of changes in 2014.

PGI buffed the Clan SPL at the same time as the other Clan and IS wubs because this was back during the time when pulse lasers were seen as poo poo weapons, except maybe the CLPL (which was originally only used after the CERLL got nerfed hard).

[Y E O N N E]

FupDup, on 21 June 2017 - 05:54 PM, said:

PGI buffed the Clan SPL at the same time as the other Clan and IS wubs because this was back during the time when pulse lasers were seen as poo poo weapons, except maybe the CLPL (which was originally only used after the CERLL got nerfed hard).

Yes, but none of them got an almost 50% increase to their damage output, is what he's getting at.

[Gyrok]

Yeonne Greene, on 21 June 2017 - 06:12 PM, said:

Yes, but none of them got an almost 50% increase to their damage output, is what he's getting at.

No one used them before the buff, no one will use them again...

[Y E O N N E]

Gyrok, on 21 June 2017 - 06:16 PM, said:

No one used them before the buff, no one will use them again...

Nobody used them before because they still had 0.75 second burn times, they were still 3 heat, and most importantly: there were no 'Mechs to make using them worthwhile. Clans didn't have any fast Lights, the only 'Mech that could mass them was the Nova and it was huge and squishy, and nobody had bothered to discover the brawling potential of the TBR and SCR during that entire period because the 'Mechs were not legal. During that time, everything revolved around PPC+Gauss, then cERML + cERLL, and settled on cERML + cLPL after the buff.

I do think the damage came down a half-point too far and the heat didn't come down enough. But it's not far off of where it needs to be to still remain useful.

[Summon3r]

Tarl Cabot, on 21 June 2017 - 05:47 PM, said:

There was not justification for PGI to it up that way when they made the two set of changes in 2014.

gee yea dont say........ so in true PGI form they swung way to hard in 2014 and now as per usual they have learned nothing and have swung way to hard again...... should be comical to see what the next swing looks like when they are scratching their heads wondering why the CSPL never leaves a mech bay.

[chucklesMuch]

I disagree with the title, I do think it was nerfed too much and my mech builds will reflect it.

Also if heavy small lasers become a straight swap for cSpl builds then it was simply a cbill sink excerise... rather than an opportunity to add new content. (Not fun enducing)...

Edited by chucklesMuch, 21 June 2017 - 09:39 PM.

[Nomad One]

c-SPLs were overnerfed. A reduction to 5 damage would have ensured they would have had SOME purpose, now they're just garbage. Not only that, but our new "balance" developer showed he had no clue what he was doing by leaving the c-SPL limit at 6. They're worse than ERSLs in every single way now.

You spend two to three minutes sneaking your way to an opposing forces backline to assassinate someone, but now the damn weapon system can't do it's premiere purpose anymore. An SRM bomber build can still instantly murder their target from behind. (Oops, now he's going to slap them into oblivion.)

IS SPLs were pointlessly nerfed as well, further proving that previously mentioned developer hasn't got a whiff of how to keep the game fun OR fair. Should have upped the standard small lasers damage to 4 and the small pulses to 5.

But nope, gotta aimlessly nerf things because they couldn't figure a niche for the new tech and ruin builds. How's that "encouraging build diversity" thing working out, huh?

[sceii]

Nomad One, on 21 June 2017 - 11:31 PM, said:

c-SPLs were overnerfed. A reduction to 5 damage would have ensured they would have had SOME purpose, now they're just garbage. Not only that, but our new "balance" developer showed he had no clue what he was doing by leaving the c-SPL limit at 6. They're worse than ERSLs in every single way now.

You spend two to three minutes sneaking your way to an opposing forces backline to assassinate someone, but now the damn weapon system can't do it's premiere purpose anymore. An SRM bomber build can still instantly murder their target from behind. (Oops, now he's going to slap them into oblivion.)

IS SPLs were pointlessly nerfed as well, further proving that previously mentioned developer hasn't got a whiff of how to keep the game fun OR fair. Should have upped the standard small lasers damage to 4 and the small pulses to 5.

But nope, gotta aimlessly nerf things because they couldn't figure a niche for the new tech and ruin builds. How's that "encouraging build diversity" thing working out, huh?

It works, everytime we have a different options.
When srms were nerfed we switched to cspl, guess it's time to go srm and ballistic fir brawling again.
You see, you use different builds fir same purpouses every now and then.

[UnofficialOperator]

Its all speculative. Even if its true that there will be heavy sl, they should have released the new tech at the same time as the nerf.

And what if heavy sl isn't released 1 month later?

[Kaeb Odellas]

I feel like 4 damage wouldn't be a problem if they went harder on the "DPS" aspect of the adjustment. Dropping the cooldown and heat further would make them more useful as a brawling weapon. Same with the IS SPLs

Something like:

IS SL:
4 damage
2 heat
0.75s duration
2.00 cooldown


IS SPL:
3 damage
1.4 heat
0.3s duration
1.5s cooldown

C-SPL
4 damage
2 heat
0.6s duration
1.75s cooldown