465 replies to this topic

[Leggin Ho]

Only if the timer is also put into place that after 90 secs the folks hiding start losing cbills and exp as they explode.

[Tesunie]

Leggin Ho, on 04 August 2017 - 01:41 PM, said:

Only if the timer is also put into place that after 90 secs the folks hiding start losing cbills and exp as they explode.

I am hesitant to suggest any punishment system.

With your punishment system... What stops people who are having connection issues, never connected or disconnected from being punished? What if your mech gets stuck (I know, that has never happened to anyone before, right)? Etc.

I can see this being used against people as much as or more than it might help...

[Mycroft000]

Also I don't think I repeated recently that if we did get the capture-able drop zones, and the Union Class drop ships, I want the Union drop ship to be destructible.

[B0oN]

Make all dropships destructible and thenceforth all drops voided and stop with the 15 page shenaniganry ...

Pfffff .

[Xaat Xuun]

I didn't get past the first page,

If having BAT's (BigAssTurret's) is thought to be a partial solution . . it wont work that well. Teams will use them , and just hide in their spawn, specially if they have kill lead.
if there was like a shield wall (force field, can't shoot in or out), and the BAT, I can see that help little bit, but still , it will be the fall back once kill lead is obtained .
maybe to stop that from happening, BAT only works if someone is inside the spawn, and there is a timer for the amount of time one can stay in the spawn, and must not have Kill lead. KIll lead shuts the BAT down. This way teams don't use the BAT system to help secure the win.


Then again, could just have the drop ships stay hovering over the Spawn the whole match

[Leggin Ho]

Tesunie, on 04 August 2017 - 01:45 PM, said:

I am hesitant to suggest any punishment system.

With your punishment system... What stops people who are having connection issues, never connected or disconnected from being punished? What if your mech gets stuck (I know, that has never happened to anyone before, right)? Etc.

I can see this being used against people as much as or more than it might help...

If they disco and the other team is in the spawn they are losing that mech anyway.

[Tesunie]

Leggin Ho, on 04 August 2017 - 08:14 PM, said:

If they disco and the other team is in the spawn they are losing that mech anyway.

But if the other team isn't? Their mech is there for over 90 seconds, gets destroyed by said proposed penalty, and the owner of said mech gets fined C-bills and Exp for "sitting at spawn". (And I'm making remark on the proposed penalty system I originally quoted.)

[GuardDogg]

Was playing today in a faction round. Enemy defending base, and a few were out of their base sniping our drop. Four our team mates disconnected after writing "this is BS" and they had 3 more mechs each to go, and rest of my team had to deal with enemy spawn killing. Of all the years never played faction, and this is still going on.

Edited by GuardDogg, 04 August 2017 - 09:50 PM.

[Tesunie]

GuardDogg, on 04 August 2017 - 09:49 PM, said:

Was playing today in a faction round. Enemy defending base, and a few were out of their base sniping our drop. Four our team mates disconnected after writing "this is BS" and they had 3 more mechs each to go, and rest of my team had to deal with enemy spawn killing. Of all the years never played faction, and this is still going on.

I have found it to be more rare than people say it is... But yes. It does still happen.

As for your incident... I would have reported the three players who left for leaving the match and moved on as best I could. If you lost that match (I'm presuming you did), it had far more to do with missing out with three players and a lack of coordination than anything else.


In one match I can recall (and we tried not to camp their spawn and left it after we finished with a wave), we defended the gates on Borial Vault. Killed their first wave because they never pushed out of the gates and we ended up pushing in. We left the gates and redeployed outside them, in defense like we should be doing. Well, the enemy team made that second wave as a push to the O-Gens. They got reasonably far actually, but was eventually defeated. Their third and fourth wave? They hide inside their deployment zone and didn't bother leaving, forcing us to enter into the gates and their spawn zones to kill them. After each wave, we withdrew back out of the gates to let them group up and push again, which they didn't do.

Not to be mean, but sometimes it's the team (as a whole, not as a single individual) who causes a spawn camp. When you refuse to leave your own spawn, you kinda force the enemy to go there to get at you... At which point, you've kinda caused the enemy to camp your spawn. (The most common occurrence of spawn camping I've seen so far.) Though, I am not denying that some teams try to spawn camp as a strategy intentionally. It just isn't the common reason I see when it happens.


Honestly speaking, it sounds like your team was "defeated" before they even moved the first wave of mechs out. I have seen it so many times, where a whole team will act like they are already defeated before the first shots are fired. Because they have already defeated themselves, and then they end up losing to the enemy team. It's hard to win, if you've already committed yourself to losing the match. (It's one thing to joke about it, but when you've already given in to the defeat...)

[NyxSilence]

Tesunie, on 04 August 2017 - 01:45 PM, said:

I am hesitant to suggest any punishment system.

With your punishment system... What stops people who are having connection issues, never connected or disconnected from being punished? What if your mech gets stuck (I know, that has never happened to anyone before, right)? Etc.

I can see this being used against people as much as or more than it might help...

You play League of Legends? Being a constant **** up is actually a bannable offense. The scrubs disappeared there after Leave Buster was put into play 7 years ago. There hasn't been a problem since. MWO could use some discipline.

[Leggin Ho]

GuardDogg, on 04 August 2017 - 09:49 PM, said:

Was playing today in a faction round. Enemy defending base, and a few were out of their base sniping our drop. Four our team mates disconnected after writing "this is BS" and they had 3 more mechs each to go, and rest of my team had to deal with enemy spawn killing. Of all the years never played faction, and this is still going on.

If they gave the defending team time to get in range of their spawn and shoot into it, then they were hiding in spawn and deserved to get shot there, hence my suggestion of auto suicide and neg cbills/XP penalty for refusing to engage and play the game.

[Mycroft000]

Getting pushed in your drop zone when you are already on the ground is vastly different from getting camped and killed as you fall from the drop ship.

[DarklightCA]

The only way a team would have time to kill your entire team, move into your dropzone in time to shoot you before you had a chance to drop is if your entire or majority of your team was defending on spawn or close by it. If you were defending more infront of your cannon there would be no time for that. Only on one map would that not be the case.

[LordFatman]

not true some mechs are fast all you need is 2 or 3 mech to stat shooting at spawn as you fall you will be dead

Edited by LordFatman, 05 August 2017 - 12:51 PM.

[BTGbullseye]

DarklightCA, on 05 August 2017 - 12:33 PM, said:

The only way a team would have time to kill your entire team, move into your dropzone in time to shoot you before you had a chance to drop is if your entire or majority of your team was defending on spawn or close by it. If you were defending more infront of your cannon there would be no time for that. Only on one map would that not be the case.

You assume this only happens in Siege... I've had it happen to/by myself in skirmish, assault, and even incursion. (yes, I saw them ignore base damage to farm the new drops, because you get no points for base damage, but tons for mech kills)

[Mycroft000]

DarklightCA, I've seen it happen on Grim Portico, Emerald Tiaga, Hellebore Springs, Boreal Vault, Sulfurous Springs; all it takes is a team who is aggressive enough that they push to the enemy drop zone, whether they are attacking or defending. It happens very frequently.

I think the only mode where this is at all less commonplace is Conquest. That's a mode where if the spawn camping team isn't careful, one mech can cap all five points and still win.

[DarklightCA]

BTGbullseye, on 05 August 2017 - 12:52 PM, said:

You assume this only happens in Siege... I've had it happen to/by myself in skirmish, assault, and even incursion. (yes, I saw them ignore base damage to farm the new drops, because you get no points for base damage, but tons for mech kills)

Where did I state I was only refering to siege? If you are playing Skirmish on River City and fight in the airport (extremely common) and you lose that fight they are of course going to camp airports drop zone.

Fighting for the gardens or even citadel even though thats a terrible spot, even fighting in the city at G7, F7 would give you enough time to drop and get out before they could get to you.

Point being if you decide to fight near a drop zone and you lose that fight, you won't have time to drop and escape because you lost a fight right outside a drop zone and they can easily get there in time. That is your choice to make that decision and nobody is going to ignore a advantage like picking off a lance caught out by themselves.

[DarklightCA]

Mycroft000, on 05 August 2017 - 01:12 PM, said:

DarklightCA, I've seen it happen on Grim Portico, Emerald Tiaga, Hellebore Springs, Boreal Vault, Sulfurous Springs; all it takes is a team who is aggressive enough that they push to the enemy drop zone, whether they are attacking or defending. It happens very frequently.

I think the only mode where this is at all less commonplace is Conquest. That's a mode where if the spawn camping team isn't careful, one mech can cap all five points and still win.

I've been the team that spawn camps more times than I can count and largely the primary reason it happens is because teams are too chicken to fight infront of the objectives, they always play at the back where the turrets are or they play close to their drop zones.

It takes time to wipe out a team and than moving to a drop zone. If you play near dropzones than you are giving the other the team the time they require to get to one before you can drop. If you played near the gates on Emerald, the attackers would have zero chance to wipe you and get to the dropzone before you all dropped.

If you played on the hill on Borreal(where you should be playing) instead of camping by the turrets than there is zero chance they could get to the dropzone before you all dropped. The same with Grim, Hellbore, etc. Sulfurous is the only map FP map where that won't matter.

[MischiefSC]

When the other team moves forward every single wave we never end up shooting them in their spawn. They meet us in the middle of the map on wave 1, when we beat the first wave their second wave meets us well outside their DZ, where their fresh mechs fight our damaged mechs. Even if we get some kills we can't roll 2 waves back to back (usually) so they then push forward after their 2nd wave beats or first , so we once again meet and fight about the middle of the map. Rinse and repeat until one side wins.

However against timid ******* what happens is we find their 1st wave maybe 500m from their DZ, where they hide and get rolled. 2nd wave is already in range of our guns. They often run behind their own DZ. Even when we get wiped and we gather for our 2nd wave we find them still hiding in their DZ.

That's why I have 0 mercy for blowing people out of their dropships. At all. Even a little. People hide in their DZ to get firepower support from their dropships and they refuse to move any real distance forward when they drop so the fight happens all but at their DZ. They are trying to abuse the dropships firepower to help them avoid having to win a fight on equal terms, 1 mech to 1 mech -


Which is what every match has. A 12man still gets 240 tons in 12 drop decks. Same mechs, same gear. Just more coordination and effort. Even teams we still beat who actually move forward and fight like they're not terrified 6 year olds scared to get out of bed with the lights out because the monster under the bed will get them.

Spawn camping happens because one, there's reaspawns and two, teams who stay near their spawn make the other team come to their spawn to fight.

[Tesunie]

NyxSilence, on 05 August 2017 - 02:18 AM, said:

You play League of Legends? Being a constant **** up is actually a bannable offense. The scrubs disappeared there after Leave Buster was put into play 7 years ago. There hasn't been a problem since. MWO could use some discipline.

I'm always hesitant to back something that is suppose to "punish poor play", especially when I can see ways that it could be used against the players in an unintended and negative manner.

I also think it's a poor decision (my opinion) to kick players simply because you (the game) determine them "not good enough".

At most, I could see a forced "you must be in a group to join FP", but then we would be forced to have team limits of 2-10 or 12. This would also probably lengthen queue times. Oh, and removing players from the game, also would increase those queue times even more...

PS: I don't play League of Legends. I don't know very much about that game. So far, I don't think I'd be interested in it from what I have been hearing. If it matters at all.

Also, it would suck to have spent any amount of money, and with your comparison, then be banned for "not being good enough" or for "technical difficulties".

Leggin Ho, on 05 August 2017 - 08:56 AM, said:

If they gave the defending team time to get in range of their spawn and shoot into it, then they were hiding in spawn and deserved to get shot there, hence my suggestion of auto suicide and neg cbills/XP penalty for refusing to engage and play the game.

True, for the first wave. I've had games where the enemy (in part from the map, in part from their tactics) managed to push right into the spawns and shoot at people as they dropped (normally using walls and stuff to block the drop ships). It sometimes results in them killing a single player a few times, or an entire wave even. Even if the spawn camp only happened for a wave, or even two, it can be painful.

So, if the enemy team manages to push you back into spawn (by dropping many of your team quickly, and them moving in closer each wave, for example), should you be punished because you can't leave spawn within a time limit...? It does happen.

I'm afraid of how could this could be potentially used in the wrong way, somehow. Could it work? Maybe. I'm just concerned of how it could be used against it's intention. (Recall Long Tom, being used by the enemy to cause "friendly" team damage?)

DarklightCA, on 05 August 2017 - 01:21 PM, said:

Where did I state I was only refering to siege? If you are playing Skirmish on River City and fight in the airport (extremely common) and you lose that fight they are of course going to camp airports drop zone.

Fighting for the gardens or even citadel even though thats a terrible spot, even fighting in the city at G7, F7 would give you enough time to drop and get out before they could get to you.

Point being if you decide to fight near a drop zone and you lose that fight, you won't have time to drop and escape because you lost a fight right outside a drop zone and they can easily get there in time. That is your choice to make that decision and nobody is going to ignore a advantage like picking off a lance caught out by themselves.

Okay... What happens if the enemy take the Airport on Skirmish? You take the Citadel? They shoot at you from the airport?

Just like in reverse, what if they push upper city across from the bridge? Or what if they were going to try that, but got caught in the airport instead by the enemy?


Are there things that could prevent that? Tactics? Sure. I'm just saying it can happen. And it can also happen "innocently" enough.