465 replies to this topic

[Grus]

Pat Kell, on 08 August 2017 - 04:47 PM, said:

That tactic we used is something we commonly do in order to try to prevent base rushers. We have found that by being aggressive and pushing out as soon as the gate is open, even if the push bombs, we have enough time to get back to the gens and defend them. This is the polar opposite of what I see almost every single match I play when I am attacking. People sitting back by the gens, thinking they have a good spot to defend from and sometimes they are right, we lose all 12 mechs and have to make another run of it. The amount of times we have wiped all 12 mechs with only losing a few of ours is astonishing but no quite so astonishing as the fact that over and over and over again I have told people that they need to be fighting in front of the gens, as close to the gate as they can or they risk getting rushed. Yet it still happens, almost every single match I am in.

The same is true on fighting in front of your spawns and preferably as far in front as you can. If you don't want to get spawn camped, get your but up there and help your team out. The sad fact is that because a lot of people won't do this, the brave/smart ones will rush out to where they should be, find themselves understrength, die and just as they are spawning in, we are finishing off the armor farmers in the back. These good players are made to suffer because of the poor choices the armor farmers are making. That is the issue with the game. Preventing spawn camping is easy, even as a pug. The issue is not the game mode, it's the choices being made while playing that game mode. I am telling people all the time how to avoid getting spawn camped and so are others yet people keep letting it happen.

The match you listed as an example is a perfect example. The attacker is closer to the gate than the defender is and should have no problem opening and beginning to enter the gate before the defending team can really mount any sizable force up to repel them effectively and still be able to be close enough to the gate to qqqqqqqqqqqqspawn camp. The only reason we are able to do this is because people do not get the gate open very fast. If you allow us to get up to the gate, get set up and prepare for pushing out before you open the gate, who is really at fault here? You could of opened the gate sooner and pushed in as a unit or a group but instead, people half stepped it, traded shots with us etc etc a million excuses why it didn't get open in time. We got set up, you opened the gate and we came and got you. Yea, we could of went back in the gate but we have found that trying to defend the gens with damaged mechs tend to lead to gen rushes, where all your wounded mechs die rather quickly and it takes too long to get back and effectively protect the gens. So no, we go out with our damaged mechs, do as much damage as we can as far in front of our gens as we can so that we don't get gen rushed.

Why should people be forced to sit through matches that are no fun for the winners and no fun for the losers? First off, I always have fun when I win...it varies to some degree based on how close the match is but winning is always fun. Second, if I agree to play a match where 4 respawns are present, I am going to hold up my end of the bargain and finish the match even if I am getting spawn camped and I am going to try to find something to learn from it (which is also fun for me). I am not saying that I object to all of the ideas I see here, I just don't think they are going to fix what you are really upset about. There will always be players out there that are better than us and how we deal with those situations determine how much we are able to improve ourselves. Looking for outside sources to fix the problem will often times lead to half measures and immense frustration. Finding ways to fix it yourself will lead to self improvement and enjoyment. That's why people should be forced to sit through those matches. It provides them with opportunities to either enjoy themselves by winning or opportunities to learn something from a loss. Whether or not they choose to take advantage of those opportunities is up to them and certainly is not something myself or anyone else should be responsible for.

Also, my comments on padding stats has a lot to do with this. It puts people in the mindset that by doing better somehow as an individual in a team play mode means something important, it does not. All it means it that you end up losing and getting spawn camped often. I am trying to show people how they can be more successful at this game mode with out waiting for the pie in the sky dream of having PGI miraculously fix this. This is exactly what I mean by looking to outside sources. There are a lot of people in here proposing ideas on how to fix this mode that will either never be implemented by PGI or are far off into the future. Stop looking for them to fix your problems and start looking within yourself. The ability is there, it just seems that a lot of people have been trained to expect other people to fix their own problems rather than taking the hard yet more satisfying and rewarding path of fixing it for themselves.

Maybe a better question to ask is why should a team that has been searching for a match for 10+ minutes be forced to allow the enemy to surrender? Why does losing a match suddenly give anyone the right to deny the victor some enjoyment?

to the end of that they shouldn't. I remember a pug match aganced Patricia's crew where I jumped in a light at the start to scout and relay where there routing to. Skirmish mode deathball KCOM style insued, first wave died quickly and they in lock step took up camping positions. I swore someone broke out some Smores, but made it really easy to put my single erppc to work by wave 3 for my team and over 700 damage later they finnaly got something Fast enough to catch me. By that time they had realistate set up just on the other side of the wall. Took my iceferrit out the back door and snuck behind their lines and almost solo rebalanced a warhammer before I was rudely interuppted by a Phoenix hawk and I think a jenner. Needless to say by this time only a few of us were left and they made short work of my hellbringer. My last drop was a scorch, I thought well screw It, anyone wanna 1v1. Pat simply stated "don't use your team as a meat shield" and my legs were gone before my mech landed.

So lessons to be learned? Pugging isn't a lot of fun when your team gets rolled in quick fashion. Could I have done more for the team to have been in a heavier mech? Possible, could I have done as much damage in a assault? Likely, but situation and positioning would have dictated that more that mech choice.

Biggist tidbit was since they like to pack it in on corners and hallways you got to toss party and air strikes on them like a stripper in Vegas to have any real effect, skill up those nodes!

Edit: cellphone autocorrect

Edited by Grus, 08 August 2017 - 05:18 PM.

[MischiefSC]

You want mechs invulnerable until they can shoot back? Answer to that fixes some dropship bugs -

Change how mech drops work. Have concrete landing pads. Dropship lands (dropship is invulnerable), opens bays, lifts up and flies off. Mech is on the ground and ready to go and you don't have strange invulnerability shields in the game.

Doesn't change spawncamping though.

[Tesunie]

Jaroth Corbett, on 08 August 2017 - 09:52 AM, said:

It's called mechWARrior related to BATTLEtech. It is based on WAR. This is what happens in war. This is a game about WAR. I can't believe you actually posted that.

This is a GAME first.

If this was just straight up war, than why do we have quirks on IS mechs and other "sub-optimal" mechs? Why is much of Clan tech actually "downgraded" from it's TT and Lore aspects? Why was Ghost Heat introduced into the game?

One reason, overall game balance.

So, if this game was suppose to be about "true and accurate war", why is it we (PGI) keep making changes to the game to try and level the playing field? Why would one do that "in war"?

Simple. Because this is a GAME. It isn't WAR.

[Mycroft000]

Pat, I'd like to put together a solid response, but I simply don't have the energy and would rather play a few matches.

MischiefSC, on 08 August 2017 - 06:16 PM, said:

You want mechs invulnerable until they can shoot back? Answer to that fixes some dropship bugs -

Change how mech drops work. Have concrete landing pads. Dropship lands (dropship is invulnerable), opens bays, lifts up and flies off. Mech is on the ground and ready to go and you don't have strange invulnerability shields in the game.

Doesn't change spawncamping though.

Your idea on landing the drop ship is yet another good idea that could very easily be implemented.

I'll reframe your question, do you want mechs helpless until they can shoot back?

Would it ultimately completely and fully eliminate spawn camping, not by a long shot, but it takes a certain level of autonomy and puts it back in the players hands: "I died because I couldn't take on 4 mechs at once" instead of "I died before I even dropped because I was farmed in my drop zone."

Can you see the difference there and how it legitimately affects a players experience in the game?

[Pat Kell]

Grus, on 08 August 2017 - 05:17 PM, said:

to the end of that they shouldn't. I remember a pug match aganced Patricia's crew where I jumped in a light at the start to scout and relay where there routing to. Skirmish mode deathball KCOM style insued, first wave died quickly and they in lock step took up camping positions. I swore someone broke out some Smores, but made it really easy to put my single erppc to work by wave 3 for my team and over 700 damage later they finnaly got something Fast enough to catch me. By that time they had realistate set up just on the other side of the wall. Took my iceferrit out the back door and snuck behind their lines and almost solo rebalanced a warhammer before I was rudely interuppted by a Phoenix hawk and I think a jenner. Needless to say by this time only a few of us were left and they made short work of my hellbringer. My last drop was a scorch, I thought well screw It, anyone wanna 1v1. Pat simply stated "don't use your team as a meat shield" and my legs were gone before my mech landed.

So lessons to be learned? Pugging isn't a lot of fun when your team gets rolled in quick fashion. Could I have done more for the team to have been in a heavier mech? Possible, could I have done as much damage in a assault? Likely, but situation and positioning would have dictated that more that mech choice.

Biggist tidbit was since they like to pack it in on corners and hallways you got to toss party and air strikes on them like a stripper in Vegas to have any real effect, skill up those nodes!

Edit: cellphone autocorrect

Yea, sorry I didn't honor that duel request but when I see someone on they're second mech and everyone else is dead or near dead, it just irritates me. Not because it is going to take us longer to sit and wait for you to drop two more mechs (which is a little irritating) but because you have 11 other team mates on you're team that could of used you next to them forcing us to spread our damage more (well, not forcing, but we rarely call targets so when you don't group up, focusing fire is easier because there are just fewer mechs to shoot.) Maybe if you would of been in with the rest of your team, you all could of done better. I certainly believe that you would of and one thing I am not going to do is honor a duel request from someone who is playing like that. I think it rewards a play style that causes losses and promotes the kind of one sided stomps that you saw there.

Not trying to be rude, I am just not going to reward that type of playstyle, thus allowing you to get even more damage and c-bills by letting you shoot anyone else. I will absolutely try to kill you before you're feet hit the ground and give that order out often when I come across this. Not only do you get a chance to earn more c-bills but now you get to waste even more of your teammates times. Sorry, play with your team and I will do my best to honor a duel request. Have 2 mechs left when everyone else is dead and I will absolutely 100% do my best to watch you explode in the dropship and fall like a sack of potatoes on the ground.

[Jaroth Corbett]

There are sound battle tactics that work. Preventing the enemy from deploying reinforcements is part of that. It is not a cheat, a hack or an exploit. You whining about something that is allowed but frowned upon sounds a lot like when people were whining about legging.

So to sum it up. You have an issue with a legit tactic. People have done it, are doing it & will continue to do it. You request references from lore to satisfy you & you said you would "100% back off". You get said references but still persist. So at this point, I as a player have NO issue with it because for a game based on WAR, I understand its tactical use. I speak about both me using it & it being used on me. You will not convince me otherwise. Enjoy your day.

[Pat Kell]

Mycroft000, on 08 August 2017 - 07:12 PM, said:

Pat, I'd like to put together a solid response, but I simply don't have the energy and would rather play a few matches.

Not much to really respond too. I have known since the time you PM'd me and the arguments that you used that we were never going to see eye to eye. We are just too philosophically different in how we approach life in general. You are certainly welcome to respond however you want in the hopes that someone else reads your words and is recruited to your side but I am just not interested in taking on the responsibility that you are seeking from me. As the infamous Malcolm Reynolds said "I take care of me and mine. That don't include you less I conjure it." I.E. take care of the people in your life that mean something to you and trust that the rest of the people on the planet will do the same.

Another applicable saying from Malcolm that fits if you consider PGI as the almighty controller of everything in the MWO universe-"I ain't looking for help from on high. That's a long wait for a train that don't come." I.E. spending time daydreaming of all the things PGI could do to make this game better is a lesson in futility. Not trying to bash them too hard, I just think they have made up their mind on where this game is going so rather than make all this fuss about it, I am going to do what I can to improve my own experience and the experience of the people I am in a unit with. I truly hope the rest of the people who play this game are looking inwards for solutions as well because it's the only valid ones they are likely to get.

Edited by Pat Kell, 08 August 2017 - 07:25 PM.

[Mycroft000]

Jaroth, if your lore reference were valid, I'd go ahead and back off, but the forces that were destroyed in the drop ship in Bloodname were intended to be the initial force in the battle, not the reinforcements.

Pat, you're right, we don't eye to eye, but I do appreciate the reference to Firefly, hard to go wrong there.

My response would basically be summarized as this. while I respect your right to hold your opinions, I don't think your philosophy as it relates to this game is healthy for its longevity.

As I've said, I am tilting at windmills here and don't expect anyone to change their opinions, but a little good sportsmanship goes a long way in improving the overall experience for everyone involved.

Edited by Mycroft000, 08 August 2017 - 07:32 PM.

[General Solo]

Spawn camping is a symptom of being outclassed greatly by the enemy team.
You don't cure a disease by fixing a symptom, you just ease the pain perhaps, possibly.
By you won't stop the symptom whilst the disease exists.

So I have no problem with spawn camping, as it is just a symptom of being outclassed greatly by the enemy team.
Small population, and no MM makes this highly possible and the rule rather than not.
So when doing FW, know what to expect.

Other wise exceptions might need adjusting.

Edited by OZHomerOZ, 08 August 2017 - 08:07 PM.

[Tesunie]

Jaroth Corbett, on 08 August 2017 - 07:20 PM, said:

There are sound battle tactics that work. Preventing the enemy from deploying reinforcements is part of that. It is not a cheat, a hack or an exploit. You whining about something that is allowed but frowned upon sounds a lot like when people were whining about legging.

So to sum it up. You have an issue with a legit tactic. People have done it, are doing it & will continue to do it. You request references from lore to satisfy you & you said you would "100% back off". You get said references but still persist. So at this point, I as a player have NO issue with it because for a game based on WAR, I understand its tactical use. I speak about both me using it & it being used on me. You will not convince me otherwise. Enjoy your day.

Personally speaking, I have no issue with spawn pushing and some cases of spawn camping (last few mechs left, typically way far at the tail end of a match). On the basis of the game, it does currently permit it to be done and I do not blame people when they do (even if it's frustrating).


However, trying to brush it off as "it is war" is like calling "Omega Rushing" a non-issue as far as game mechanic balance back when it was permitted and calling "the game lets you do it, so that's all there is to it, stop complaining about it". Do notice...

What has happened to the Omega? We now have O-Gens to spread the critical locations out, making it more challenging.

When that was seen as "ineffective" and preventing an easy win from a first wave gen rush, it was altered, yet again, to having shields around the gens and only having little windows to deal damage through, limiting the arcs that the gens can take damage from.

Why did these steps happen within the game mode? Simple. For game balance. Yes, it use to be able to be done before hand, and at that time (as much as it sucked), I could not blame people for doing it. It was permit-able at that time in the game mode's existence. Did that stop people from pointing out the relative ease of it, and how detrimental it was to the game play at that time? That it was no fun when it was done? No. And rightfully so.

Why did these changes happen? Again, for the same reason IS mechs got Quirks... Overall Game Balance.


Now, I'm not saying that teams can't spawn camp, as the game permits it at this time. It is a legitimate strategy, and has tactical rewards for pulling it off successfully. This doesn't mean that there may be a problem with the current spawn system. Nor does it mean we can't discuss possible ways to elevate it's affect. Just because it is like that currently, doesn't mean something may be off with it still, nor does it mean we can't contemplate potentially better alternatives to help improve the system.

I, personally, am against Spawn Camping. I don't mind spawn rushing, but I don't like spawn camping. I know how frustrating it can be when it is used on me, and I don't like to throw that situation upon others if possible. This doesn't mean that no one should spawn camp, as that is an individual player's/team's choice. It is a completely valid tactic currently.

Edit: Just removed an H in Cases...

Edited by Tesunie, 09 August 2017 - 07:51 AM.

[Jaroth Corbett]

Mycroft000, on 08 August 2017 - 07:25 PM, said:

Jaroth, if your lore reference were valid, I'd go ahead and back off, but the forces that were destroyed in the drop ship in Bloodname were intended to be the initial force in the battle, not the reinforcements.

Pat, you're right, we don't eye to eye, but I do appreciate the reference to Firefly, hard to go wrong there.

My response would basically be summarized as this. while I respect your right to hold your opinions, I don't think your philosophy as it relates to this game is healthy for its longevity.

As I've said, I am tilting at windmills here and don't expect anyone to change their opinions, but a little good sportsmanship goes a long way in improving the overall experience for everyone involved.

Reinforcements has nothing to do with WHEN troops are deployed. Reinforcements means troops not originally assigned to the original unit to be fighting.

4. Often, reinforcements. an additional supply of personnel, ships,aircraft, etc., for a military force.

You can have all the troops you want for a fight & not deploy them all at once. You can hold some in reserve. Joanna was attached to the Falcon Guards who were NOT part of the Glory Station Garrison Cluster.

Quote

"A Jade Falcon JumpShip has been detected arriving in Glory Sector. A DropShip has detached and is heading for Glory," Star Commander Craig Ward reported to his superior, Star Captain Dwillt Radick.

"Perhaps the Jade Falcons had advance information about our attack," Ward commented.

The DropShip captain, a sharp young warrior named Essel, informed the assemblage that a JumpShip from Clan Wolf had just appeared in the region and was sending out DropShips, all of them headed in the general direction of the planet Glory.

"No communication has come from the Clan Wolf ships, but we suspect that combat is imminent. Star Colonel Kael Pershaw has informed me that he intends to include this ship and the Trinary it carries in his defense. Please prepare your troops and await a General Alert. Return to your stations."

What luck that Kael Pershaw intended to use this ship and her Trinary. Joanna could not be sure whether this was genius or desperation on the Star Colonel's part because this DropShip was only a troop transport never intended for orbital assault. The move surprised her, but she could not help but admire the man's determination.

First you said you got it when I made the reference, now you say oh they weren't reinforcements & again, I make the case they were.

Tesunie, on 08 August 2017 - 08:07 PM, said:

Personally speaking, I have no issue with spawn pushing and some chases of spawn camping (last few mechs left, typically way far at the tail end of a match). On the basis of the game, it does currently permit it to be done and I do not blame people when they do (even if it's frustrating).


However, trying to brush it off as "it is war" is like calling "Omega Rushing" a non-issue as far as game mechanic balance back when it was permitted and calling "the game lets you do it, so that's all there is to it, stop complaining about it". Do notice...

What has happened to the Omega? We now have O-Gens to spread the critical locations out, making it more challenging.

And people STILL gen rush because it is a valid tactic. So what's your point?

Edited by Jaroth Corbett, 08 August 2017 - 11:30 PM.

[DevlinCognito]

If PGI could summon enough wizardry to make it so any damage done to/from the Drop zone does full damage, but isn't added to your score... BOOM! Armour farmers and guys trying to farm new drops aren't rewarded for it, whereas teams just trying to finish the game quick can do so. I bet we'd see a lot less spawn camping for the most part.

Let's not be silly here, if your entire team is getting camped, you have already lost. Whether you were outplayed or just need to git gud is neither here nor there, the fight is done. However not once have any of you mentioned that spawn camping can be negated/nullified by using comms and swapping lances on most of the maps (sulphurous, taiga and boreal aren't good examples for this).

If you aren't using comms and are dropping solo with solos against a team, then your problem isn't the spawn camping.

[Tesunie]

Jaroth Corbett, on 08 August 2017 - 11:21 PM, said:

And people STILL gen rush because it is a valid tactic. So what's your point?

Yeah. Sure. It still happens, but my POINT IS that it was made MORE DIFFICULT to do. No longer can a team push the Omega and kill it in a single wave of Light Mechs.

There is a reason many of our suggestions are to make it more difficult to Spawn Camp, rather than try to remove it completely. Rather by making it harder to do, or by just making sure that a mech is completely under a players control before it could be damaged. It's rather annoying to be dead or all but dead before you can even hit the ground and actually turn your mech or even shoot.


I wish to remind people that this is still just a game first. It's a Player vs Player game to be more specific. So what that means is that, unlike a Player vs Environment where the player can have some really powerful stuff (and so can the environment depending upon the desired challenge), in a Player vs Player styled game it is best to make it so every player has the same potential as anyone else at any given time or game mode. It's the reason the IS mechs got quirks. It's also the reason the Omega got Gens, got them spread out, and got those Gens shielded. It's also the reason the Dropship weapons have been altered, and many spawns moved and/or barricaded* in.

Edit: I placed this in the post directed to the wrong person... Other aspects of this post may be like that as well. If so, please disregard. Totally my bad here. (Just woke up...)
Personally, I don't see much spawn camping happening right now, but it's just as annoying as ever when it does happen. I tend to find that spawn camping happens at a single spawn point more than "the entire team was camped". This can be mitigated, but only by a rather poor system of someone taking command (who knows which lance drops at which zone), and then cycling lance members to force people to spawn in a different lance's drop zone than the one being spawned. That takes a lot of effort, time, and someone able to "take command" and do it. (Hopefully, some random person didn't just take command "because he could", which I've seen numerous times.)

On that last part, I agree with Mycroft. It might be better served if we could have the above way of "preventing spawn camping of a single spawn" a bit more automated. Have drop ships go to the drop zone with the fewest enemies nearby, which would make it impossible to camp a single spawn location, but not prevent "hot drops" if the enemy has managed to camp all the spawn locations (should be unlikely on many of the maps).


* As a note on the barricaded in drop zones... Often times it's actually more of a hindrance than it has been a help. It prevents long range drop shooting, but it kinda funnels a team right at their spawns to leave in specific ways. This can also be camped, but at least it is better than being shot at while you are dropping as your armor and guns should be facing the enemy as you leave your spawn.

Edited by Tesunie, 09 August 2017 - 07:49 AM.

[Tesunie]

DevlinCognito, on 09 August 2017 - 07:20 AM, said:

If PGI could summon enough wizardry to make it so any damage done to/from the Drop zone does full damage, but isn't added to your score... BOOM! Armour farmers and guys trying to farm new drops aren't rewarded for it, whereas teams just trying to finish the game quick can do so. I bet we'd see a lot less spawn camping for the most part.

Let's not be silly here, if your entire team is getting camped, you have already lost. Whether you were outplayed or just need to git gud is neither here nor there, the fight is done. However not once have any of you mentioned that spawn camping can be negated/nullified by using comms and swapping lances on most of the maps (sulphurous, taiga and boreal aren't good examples for this).

If you aren't using comms and are dropping solo with solos against a team, then your problem isn't the spawn camping.

That could cause people to hide in the spawns to intentionally "punish" a team and deny them their rightful rewards. Depending upon how it is done, it could be abused too easily.


OOPS...
Posted this to the wrong person... Moving it here now:

Personally, I don't see much spawn camping happening right now, but it's just as annoying as ever when it does happen. I tend to find that spawn camping happens at a single spawn point more than "the entire team was camped". This can be mitigated, but only by a rather poor system of someone taking command (who knows which lance drops at which zone), and then cycling lance members to force people to spawn in a different lance's drop zone than the one being spawned. That takes a lot of effort, time, and someone able to "take command" and do it. (Hopefully, some random person didn't just take command "because he could", which I've seen numerous times.)

On that last part, I agree with Mycroft. It might be better served if we could have the above way of "preventing spawn camping of a single spawn" a bit more automated. Have drop ships go to the drop zone with the fewest enemies nearby, which would make it impossible to camp a single spawn location, but not prevent "hot drops" if the enemy has managed to camp all the spawn locations (should be unlikely on many of the maps).


* As a note on the barricaded in drop zones... Often times it's actually more of a hindrance than it has been a help. It prevents long range drop shooting, but it kinda funnels a team right at their spawns to leave in specific ways. This can also be camped, but at least it is better than being shot at while you are dropping as your armor and guns should be facing the enemy as you leave your spawn.

[Grus]

Pat Kell, on 08 August 2017 - 07:24 PM, said:

Not much to really respond too. I have known since the time you PM'd me and the arguments that you used that we were never going to see eye to eye. We are just too philosophically different in how we approach life in general. You are certainly welcome to respond however you want in the hopes that someone else reads your words and is recruited to your side but I am just not interested in taking on the responsibility that you are seeking from me. As the infamous Malcolm Reynolds said "I take care of me and mine. That don't include you less I conjure it." I.E. take care of the people in your life that mean something to you and trust that the rest of the people on the planet will do the same.

Another applicable saying from Malcolm that fits if you consider PGI as the almighty controller of everything in the MWO universe-"I ain't looking for help from on high. That's a long wait for a train that don't come." I.E. spending time daydreaming of all the things PGI could do to make this game better is a lesson in futility. Not trying to bash them too hard, I just think they have made up their mind on where this game is going so rather than make all this fuss about it, I am going to do what I can to improve my own experience and the experience of the people I am in a unit with. I truly hope the rest of the people who play this game are looking inwards for solutions as well because it's the only valid ones they are likely to get.

I'll be clear, I wasn't u seing the team as a meat shield. I just was able to live and deal damage and get some of you to turn around in the "why is shooting me" cause a few of you to get killed from back shots. And again 700 damage in a light is nothing to shake a stick at. 2nd drop was a pull / cut off drop witch worked... kinda. Reduced and almost killed a warhammer to combat ineffective and pulled 2 more pilots from the dz to help the odds, 3 and 4 were the damage drops but the rest couldn't hold long enough for it to be effective.

So question, do you think after the slaughter of the first wave I should have ejected in my light and stoped in the assault or continued to do damage?

Edit boss came in had to post*

To be clear to everyone this was a PUG match and I was flying solo. Late night and most of the clan wasn't online.

Edited by Grus, 09 August 2017 - 08:29 AM.

[Marquis De Lafayette]

Grus...I think it would vastly improve your results if you could come to the (light-bulb turning on) realization that:

1. By dropping light you were most likely instrumental (albeit without intent) in actually helping Kcom farm your drop zone wave 1. You couldn't do the dps, share armor, etc in that light and thus you couldn't help your team when they got deathballed as much as you really needed to.
2. If you got 700 dmg in your wave 1 mech while your team got crushed....you did it because Kcom likely had other priorities than chasing you around. Wave 2 reinforcements are precious to kill. A light in the back is annoying....but not the threat a Ebon jag in front of you is. They probably didn't prioritize you highly. That is not a knock on you as a player...just your mech was a lower priority to go after.

Teams prioritize targets.. Kcom is very, very good at what they do. I am confident it wasn't an accident your teammates died more than you did and your living long, might in this case not be due to skill...but to KComs priorities in getting to your wave 2 reinforcements coming in, more than finding the light behind them. You might not live as long dropping that scorch first...as you will get Kcoms attention....but you will help your team more.

Don't take this as a knock on you. I do think you earnestly want to improve your performance and am saying this in that spirit

[DANKnuggz]

"Mommy, why won't they stop shooting me long enough to let me shoot them back???...."

"This is so unfair...."

[Leggin Ho]

Tesunie, on 09 August 2017 - 07:48 AM, said:

On that last part, I agree with Mycroft. It might be better served if we could have the above way of "preventing spawn camping of a single spawn" a bit more automated. Have drop ships go to the drop zone with the fewest enemies nearby, which would make it impossible to camp a single spawn location, but not prevent "hot drops" if the enemy has managed to camp all the spawn locations (should be unlikely on many of the maps).

And I can see this being abused by that last few pilots dropping in lights and running around the other team or just running and hiding for 10 mins after the winning team has pushed out to actually play this game and have to waste time trying to chase the lights down or worse they make it around in Assault mode and camp the base with cap accelerator on their mechs, Seen in happen in drops where they don't get moved to a different spawn already so no thanks to making it easier to exploit that idea.

As it stands either team can push out kill whatever wave is there and push into the spawn, they are already fighting a dropship that does full damage and does not miss (Head shot lately anyone) to push the advantage they have won for themselves by actually playing as a team, why should they be handicapped by a system in the game to reward the team that's losing the game at that point anyway?

[James Argent]

Sorry if lights don't want to fight like heavies to make it 'convenient' for you to kill them. If you're 'wasting time' chasing them you brought the wrong mechs to fight a fourth wave.

[Marquis De Lafayette]

James Argent, on 09 August 2017 - 11:16 AM, said:

Sorry if lights don't want to fight like heavies to make it 'convenient' for you to kill them. If you're 'wasting time' chasing them you brought the wrong mechs to fight a fourth wave.

If someone is my opponent, I fully support their individual right to drop a wave 1 light and play the game the way they want to. Yes, they may well live longer by making it inconvenient for me to go kill them in my slower mech....however, the really good news for me is as by doing so, they are making it much more convenient for me to push on and kill their 11 other teammates (too bad, so sad for them..right?). After I finish his wave 1 teammates it is also easy to then push on their reinforcements that may have pushed to close to the initial engagement. But, hey the guy in the wave 1 light might really live a good long while and score good damage...he is not a big priority though...we will be with him in due time...with 1 erppc (as in this case) there is only so much he can do after all.

Point is: There is a reason conventional wisdom in this game is dropping heaviest to lightest....it's not to make lights fight like heavies...it's in part to keep the greatest number of your biggest firepower mechs alive the longest to gain the advantage.

FW players who don't get this, still have too much solo-queue mentality in them. I.e....what's good for your playstyle might mess your teammates over and you will lose matches because of it. The sooner newer FW players realize this the better we all are in dropping with them and even against them (better matches).

Edited by Marquis De Lafayette, 09 August 2017 - 11:57 AM.