131 replies to this topic

[MrJeffers]

Ratpoison, on 24 June 2017 - 02:27 AM, said:

Your seething negativity makes it plainly obvious why your suggestions don't get heard. It's all over nearly all of your posts and your profile. You aren't willing to even acknowledge what they do without implying extreme incompetence on an unfair level. F2P games, especialy today, are full of cesspool cash vampires that have no concern for the players or games at all, fully embracing pay to win mechanics in the name of profit, and PGI has absolutely handled this game better than most of them. You unfairly expect results on par with companies that have budgets a dozen or more times larger than PGI has ever had, and project your disappointment onto them rather than checking your own unrealistic expectations.

<snip>

And your blind faith white knighting is worse because it feeds PGI's need for confirmation bias/selective recollection that they are doing a good job. There are years worth of feedback on how/what could be done to make CW FW a worthwhile game mode. It's mostly been ignored, and it doesn't even resemble what PGI's initial vision for the mode was.

As far as your

Quote

Perhaps you haven't ever played community warfare modes in other games, but they are pretty much all like this or worse.

That's your white knighting again - PGI could have 100% copied Chromehounds Neroimus War [a game from 2006], both a similar game genre and game mode, and it would have been better than the FW we ended up with. Just because you A ) Don't know any good community warfare games and B ) ignore years worth of feedback, much without salt, that has been given on the forms on how and what to improve without anything to show from it from PGI; just shows how ignorant you are and renders your views on the matter irrelevant.

Edited by MrJeffers, 24 June 2017 - 11:49 AM.

[Y E O N N E]

I have less than zero interest in Solaris, I'd actually rather they do something else.

I don't do 1v1; it's my least favorite way to play because if you want to win, what 'Mechs and builds you can run becomes even more constrained. There would need to be a radical shake-up of the core gameplay mechanics for it to be even remotely interesting, otherwise it's going to essentially boil down to the best brawler build against the best DPS build, exacerbated by map choice.

Furthermore, I am just not into duels. I've done my share: lost some, won some, but I just don't enjoy the hyper-focus. I like the bigger team fights, with the variety of fighting styles that can work successfully there and I enjoy being that knife in the shadows that can tip a fight with a shot here or there, sometimes even by merely signalling my presence.

A longer-duration, tug-of-war, Battlefield-type game mode is really what I want. With respawns, resources, and a degree of combined arms. That would be just as BattleTech as Solaris and, I think, less niche. What we have in MWO right now is already Solaris with teams. If they want to finally bite the bullet and bill QP as that, great. But I'm not interested in a new module called "Solaris" and I'm not interested in a dedicated 1v1 queue.

[Grus]

How about bug fixes to current content before making a new game mode?

Edit: autocorrect

Edited by Grus, 24 June 2017 - 12:08 PM.

[LordNothing]

Monkey Lover, on 23 June 2017 - 09:48 PM, said:

1v1
2v2
Match viewing
cbill gambling (even with small limits)
handfull of small new maps
Free viewing option so friends can at least watch your matches.
Changeable rules. Option like no flamers or streaks.


I will buy this.

would be cool id solaris had its own weapons set. you could have bombasts and fluid guns, m-pods, magshots, cool stuff like that. any mechs you bring need to meet solaris build rules though.

[G4LV4TR0N]

Deathlike, on 24 June 2017 - 11:40 AM, said:

Because, it's kinda on you to explain why you said what you said.

I'm asking for clarification, so unless you going to leave it as it is, it's hard to take your word for it.

First, it's not on me to explain what I've said because if you would be interested, you would try to find out yourself. Second, MekTek was only granted AT1 and actually didn't contribute much to development, instead at some point they decided that this community project will be sold as a commercial title for their profit, after which they got hit by a licensing hammer. By that time people at MWLL forums, another community project that is still running without problems, were laughing how dumb MekTek is to think that they can release BT game without license. But as PGI was involved, I will be not giving many details here.

[Deathlike]

G4LV4TR0N, on 24 June 2017 - 12:37 PM, said:

First, it's not on me to explain what I've said because if you would be interested, you would try to find out yourself. Second, MekTek was only granted AT1 and actually didn't contribute much to development, instead at some point they decided that this community project will be sold as a commercial title for their profit, after which they got hit by a licensing hammer. By that time people at MWLL forums, another community project that is still running without problems, were laughing how dumb MekTek is to think that they can release BT game without license. But as PGI was involved, I will be not giving many details here.

It kinda is on you. You said it and didn't give a reference so how am I supposed to verify this for myself? Besides, it's not like you're a good source for all things MW either.

[G4LV4TR0N]

Oh, sure I'm not. Says some random guy on PGI forums lol.

BTW, be sure to call your friends to give you forum likes, will make your post look more serious.

Edited by G4LV4TR0N, 24 June 2017 - 01:11 PM.

[Bud Crue]

Ratpoison, on 24 June 2017 - 11:08 AM, said:

There is nothing realistic about misusing phrases like "minimally viable product" to create a self-fulfilling cycle of spiteful bitterness while actively refusing to seek out possible constructive solutions.

Ummm...its not a misuse of the phrase. Its the phrase PGI used to describe its own product when they launched CW. And frankly, I don's see the product being substantively different now than then. That is the reality. You think it is a major draw title? I think it is niche game with a population of ~ 30K players, in slow decline; and PGI seems bound and determined to keep it that way. Is it growing? Is it up there with other major titles? No? It is indeed a minimally viable product and the only thing keeping it afloat is the fact that PGI has an exclusive license and us rabid MW fans have no other viable option other than MWLL. But if you have evidence to the contrary that PGI's reality of MWO being something other than a minimally viable product, I'd love to hear your hopeful and totally constructive facts which prove me wrong.

Edit:
Also, in words and deeds I have probably done more to support this shi7show than 90% of the community so suggesting that my efforts at trying to improve both this game and PGI's interactions with the community is flat out BS.

Edited by Bud Crue, 24 June 2017 - 01:24 PM.

[Ratpoison]

MrJeffers, on 24 June 2017 - 11:48 AM, said:

And your blind faith white knighting is worse because it feeds PGI's need for confirmation bias/selective recollection that they are doing a good job. There are years worth of feedback on how/what could be done to make CW FW a worthwhile game mode. It's mostly been ignored, and it doesn't even resemble what PGI's initial vision for the mode was.

As far as your

That's your white knighting again - PGI could have 100% copied Chromehounds Neroimus War [a game from 2006], both a similar game genre and game mode, and it would have been better than the FW we ended up with. Just because you A ) Don't know any good community warfare games and B ) ignore years worth of feedback, much without salt, that has been given on the forms on how and what to improve without anything to show from it from PGI; just shows how ignorant you are and renders your views on the matter irrelevant.

Hell no, I played it plenty and Chromehounds CW was horribly stacked, unrewarding, and unbalanced for its entire lifespan, and unlike MWO it never got any significant updates that tried to improve it. I know it was 10 years ago, but take off the nostalgia goggles for a split second and you can see it was hugely flawed. It is a prime example of why CW modes are so difficult to pull off.

"White Knighting" is nothing more than a cynical buzzword you use to deny conversation and reaffirm your own bitter bias. I've seen the "years of feedback" myself and I know that the overwhelming majority of it was either laced with cynical negativity, ignorant of technical limitations, in direct conflict with balance, or in direct opposition to what a different(often majority) portion of the community wanted. I've watched PGI repeatedly try different approaches to engaging the community, only to be met with all of the most bitter users instantly jumping at the opportunity to throw salt directly in their face.

You sealed your own fate, no one else. If you truly wanted the game to improve more than you wanted to be bitter, you would be making constructive, respectful suggestions, staying open to the possibility of flaws in your ideas, and collaborating with the rest of the community to avoid technical and financial limitations, as well as any potential flaws that would result in execution. The majority of the most hated changes to the game were community driven, and the fact that they didn't line up with your own personal vision of the game doesn't change that. Between tabletop, single player games, and multiplayer modes, the Battletech community as a whole has a huge range of often conflicting ideas for what a MW game should be like. If you aren't willing to accept those differences in opinion, then you condemn yourself to your own unhappiness.

[Levi Porphyrogenitus]

From my comment to the Youtube video:

Regarding Solaris VII, I'm all for a proper Solaris VII Tournament Mode. Here are what I'd expect to be necessary to really capture the experience:

• First, add melee combat (and the ax mechs, at minimum the Hatchetman and Axman).
  
• Second, develop more Colosseum-style 1v1 maps (there are several lore themes available), as well as 1v1v1v1 and 4v4 options.
  
• Third, allow players to purchase a slot in a competition category (using c-bills): Light, Medium, Heavy, Assault, and Lance.
  
• Fourth, each Champion and Runner-Up from each weight category gets an automatic invite to the Grand Championship. The purse for each category is 50% of the total buy-in price from all the participants in that class (except Lance, which gets 100% divided among the team members), with the other 50% contributing to the Grand Championship prize (so the GC will be huge compared to the other prize categories).
  
• Fifth, implement an announcer system (preferable with Duncan Fisher as one of the options).
  
• Sixth, let the Grand Champion design a Hero mech for himself.
  
• Seventh, allow c-bill wagers and Spectator mode for matches.

[Y E O N N E]

Levi Porphyrogenitus, on 24 June 2017 - 01:52 PM, said:

• Sixth, let the Grand Champion design a Hero mech for himself.

Within reason. Lots of ways that can go awry.

[Tarl Cabot]

Khobai, on 24 June 2017 - 08:17 AM, said:

fix whats wrong with the current game

before adding solaris esports crap that only a small number of players will actually play

Why does Bud and I like Khobai's post? /places hand on forehead to check for fever....

The questions though is what are our EXPECTATIONS for Solaris, and what is really the EXTRA cost of making it?

Theme maps for each arena is the biggest cost. And some of the arenas have the ability to change its settings, where portions of existing maps could be used but to even cut them up has a cost. Then setting up different spawn locations.

Solaris matches are basically PRIVATE matches. Check. Changing UI to have more than 2 teams and respective spawn points.

Additional restrictions - 3025 (Stock Clan). Check on one of those items. Class Restriction variables.

Spectator view. Check. Pieces of that is already in game.

Repeat - Actual Maps...that is where the biggest expense will be.

Now, review CW/FP. Is there any serious flavor there except Clan can only pilot Clan mechs and IS only IS mechs? Planets have names but most have no details added over the 2.5 years. Planets are all weighed the same, in that it takes the same effort to win/lose Capitol as it does to win/lose a periphery world.

Take that in stride when considering what PGI view of Solaris. There is no avatar, no BARS+booths etc. Take a look at the Cryengine, its UI and scaleform. PGI is limited in what they can do with the current setup. Except for when the game is going down for Maintenance, there is no rolling billboard announcing anything else, be it simply Clans have taken these 4 worlds, IS have had off Clans, no planets lost, etc...

No ATMOSPHERE... Yes, PGI may very well do Solaris, but how will it actually play out? Even with Solaris type maps, will PGI be able to construct and code it with more than a minimum amount of variables to make it worthy? Looking at QP and FP... how can we expect the players to not express their doubts about content other than actual mechs?

[Medicine Man]

What is the point of adding solaris when all this game is right now is just one big solaris fight? Sure it's not called solaris fight but that's basically what it is. Just arena after arena with no real goals or purposes unless you belong to a unit. And even then it's pretty scanty gameplay.

This is more of Russ having his stupid head up his ***. I really hate this guy for what he's done to mechwarrior. It's like he has kidnapped my childhood. I'd like to see him beaten for it.

Edited by Medicine Man, 24 June 2017 - 03:22 PM.

[BloodKnight101]

Medicine Man, on 24 June 2017 - 03:21 PM, said:

What is the point of adding solaris when all this game is right now is just one big solaris fight? Sure it's not called solaris fight but that's basically what it is. Just arena after arena with no real goals or purposes unless you belong to a unit. And even then it's pretty scanty gameplay.

This is more of Russ having his stupid head up his ***. I really hate this guy for what he's done to mechwarrior. It's like he has kidnapped my childhood. I'd like to see him beaten for it.

Obviously your opinion is your own, but I think that is a bit extreme to suggest that someone should incur violence over their influence to this IP.

Edited by BloodKnight101, 24 June 2017 - 05:07 PM.

[Ratpoison]

Medicine Man, on 24 June 2017 - 03:21 PM, said:

This is more of Russ having his stupid head up his ***. I really hate this guy for what he's done to mechwarrior. It's like he has kidnapped my childhood. I'd like to see him beaten for it.

Wow, I didn't want to believe it, but you bittervets really are sick and delusional, no wonder PGI avoids you at all costs and holds all constructive conversation for the game elsewhere. What a truly awful community this forum has turned into, now I see why nearly all of the level headed users are gone. I was an idiot for even trying.

[Chuanhao]

I franklybjust want to play royal rumble mode.

Don't need the economy etc that comes with running a stable and doing missions

Otherwise, it's going to be a try hard like faction play which is neither here Nor there, becoming only an event driven mode played extensively only three times so far where we re fight Tukayyid

[Y E O N N E]

Medicine Man, on 24 June 2017 - 03:21 PM, said:

This is more of Russ having his stupid head up his ***. I really hate this guy for what he's done to mechwarrior. It's like he has kidnapped my childhood. I'd like to see him beaten for it.

Seek help, please.

[Tarl Cabot]

Medicine Man, on 24 June 2017 - 03:21 PM, said:

What is the point of adding solaris when all this game is right now is just one big solaris fight? Sure it's not called solaris fight but that's basically what it is. Just arena after arena with no real goals or purposes unless you belong to a unit. And even then it's pretty scanty gameplay.

...

For many, Solaris would be QP but more restrictions variables. FFA (free for all), all lights/meds/heavies/assaults, IS or Clan only, smaller teams than 12vs12. Think of FP Scouting mode 4vs4, med/lights, meds/heavies, heavies/assaults, 6vs6, etc.

But without the ability to generate FUNDS, it may likely be a ghost town after the newness wears off like the private lobbies, unless it was integrated into the QP and the ability to OPT-IN, or OPT OUT of the Solaris mode and so players can generate Cbills, XP, GXP.

Most of us want PGI to succeed, despite their track record, because if they do not renew their license in 2018 around the time MW5 is expected to be release, that is all we will have is MW5, provided it is delivered. Realistically, does anyone really expect ANOTHER company to pickup the pieces? Would HBS, even with Battletech even try to pick it up?

Not sure about many others but there currently is not another game, besides Battletech, I am interested in playing LONG TERM. Sure, there are some titles where I may get a few hours of enjoyment but I am a series type of person, multiple trilogies.

Edited by Tarl Cabot, 24 June 2017 - 05:19 PM.

[Tavious Grimm]

I'd rather they add new maps and fix...REALLY fix FW. After they accomplish that, we'll see.

[JC Daxion]

Bud Crue, on 24 June 2017 - 01:22 PM, said:

Ummm...its not a misuse of the phrase. Its the phrase PGI used to describe its own product when they launched CW.

actually it was a phrase Russ used around the time CW launched, But he was talking about how they started the game with 4 mechs and 2 maps. He was explaining about how MWO actually finally found a way to get started with the FTP system. Something that they had been trying to get going for years.

that is why it is misused. Go back and listen to that town hall if you need more proof. I forget exactly which one it was. I think it was November from years ago if memory serves me correct. People propagated it to mean the game at the time which is just false, and still use it years later.