Jump to content

So I'm new to the world of Mech Warrior.........


34 replies to this topic

#21 Kristov Kerensky

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • FP Veteran - Beta 1
  • FP Veteran - Beta 1
  • 2,909 posts

Posted 19 December 2011 - 11:16 AM

Actually J Echo, it takes years to train a Mech pilot, and quite a few hopefuls wash out. Most Mechs may indeed only MOVE through 2 dimensions, but they FIGHT in all 3, and for any Mech with jump jets, they operate in all 3 as well as fight in them.

Aircraft pilots have to worry about not hitting the terrain in a rather general sense..the ground is bad, m'kay? But for a Mech, well..it's a wee bit more complicated. Terrain isn't something to avoid by simply pulling up, it's something to use, abuse and fear all at the same time. Aircraft don't hide behind trees or buildings or hills or inside craters and so on, Mechs do. Aircraft tend to have 2 weapon systems that can be used against them, missiles or guns. Mechs have all sorts of weapon systems from guns, AtG and even dumbfire missile systems, artillery, a whole list of various mines, infantry running up with sticky bombs, pit traps...the list goes on and on, hazards they must be prepared to deal with.

Mech pilots have to learn how to work with the tools required to drive a Mech, one of the hardest being the view. Mech pilots don't look out the cockpit window and see the world, many Mechs HAVE no such thing, they instead look at a view that's shown inside their neurohelmet(I'll cover those next) that takes a full 360 degree view around the Mech and compresses it into 160 degrees directly in front of the pilot's eyes. THAT is one of the hardest things for a Mech pilot to learn to deal with, and it's one of the things that washes out hopefuls. Mechs aren't controlled by the neurohelmet, a very VERY common misconception, they are actually controlled with at least 2 joysticks on the arms of the command couch(the seat you sit in..it ain't anything like WE use in our military vehicles of any sort!) and with foot pedals. The joysticks are for controlling the torso and general arm movements, with waldo type devices to control hands(when applicable). The foot pedals are to make the Mech walk and to activate jump jets. It's a workout to drive a Mech around, Mech pilots are extremely fit, have exceptional stamina and are capable of handling extreme stress and heat for long periods of time. This is because Mechs are HOT, and even the best enviromental systems can't deal with the extreme heat that comes from literally sitting on top of a working fusion reactor, especially when you add in the heat from the various weapon systems. Pilots wear a cooling vest and the command couch is designed to help keep them cool as well. Most Mech pilots wear their underwear, boots, cooling vest and neurohelmet while inside their Mechs, it's just THAT damn hot inside a Mech.

Neurohelmets are the most important thing in a Mech..but they don't do what so many think they do, control the Mech. They are a neural interface device that does 1 thing..taps into the human sense of balance, that's it. They do this so the Mech can remain upright and walk and jump and kneel, stand, whatever, because without that, the Mech will fall over the first time you try and move it. Gyros HELP maintain the balance of a Mech, but it requires a living human being to GET that balance in the first place, and any pilot who's injured his inner ear is a done pilot. It's almost as difficult to get used to the neurohelmet as the 360-160 view, because they ain't perfect, there's always a..buzz..as it's described in the TT and novels, never goes away, and you 'feel' the Mech as if it were you're own body..sort of..it's a limited bio-feedback system. Which can be painful at times as well. Second major cause of washouts, neurohelmet intergration, some people just can't do it.

Neurohelmets are also a security feature, so before you think about bailing out of your beat up Mech and going and pulling a GTA on someone ELSE'S Mech, disabuse yourself of that stupidity right now. Trying to jack into someone else's Mech will result in, if you are lucky, unconsciousness and a LOT of pain as their neurohelmet interface systems detect you are NOT the authorized pilot and 'detain' you until said person shows up, complete with alarms and so on. Many of these systems are set to lethal levels however, and stealing Mechs like this isn't a common thing by any means. There are, naturally, ways to bypass these security measures, but those take time and really good computer skills, which your common Mech pilot simply doesn't have, it's specialized training.

And that is the BattleTech Universe..Mech pilots are the elite of the elite, rare and vaunted, or hated, warriors who pilot giant machines of destruction and devastation..or hope and peace, depending on your point of view.

NOW..as to playing the MechWarrior games..well..they do make using a Mech much easier then your average good flight sim, but that's because of the fact that we don't have the hardware required to control a Mech as described in BattleTech, much less the tech to replicate that hardware properly ^_^ Try to d/l the MekTek MechWarrior4:Mercs game, it's free and it's pretty easy to get into. You may need to find the WinXP codecs to make the game actually run beyond the opening cinematics though, http://www.xpcodecpack.com/download is the one I used with Win7 to make it function. MW4 was the most simplistic of the MechWarrior games on PC, but it will give you some idea of what it's like to drive one.

#22 Kristov Kerensky

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • FP Veteran - Beta 1
  • FP Veteran - Beta 1
  • 2,909 posts

Posted 19 December 2011 - 12:27 PM

Combat manuevers in a jet and a Mech are radically different things, mainly due to the fact that in aircraft, you fight the vehicle, your own body, gravity AND the air itself. And most of the problem is simply due to the speeds involved, just too much delta v involved, stresses get too high for the human to take, then for the airframe to take..in that order usually..not always..seen planes rip off wings without the pilot being effected by the g's..dumb moves or shoddy construction.

However, that's not the subject at hand, or is it relevent. Combat manuevers in either vehicle are just as complicated, they simply face different sets of forces in combat.

#23 CaveMan

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Legendary Founder
  • Legendary Founder
  • 1,127 posts
  • LocationIn a leather flying cap and goggles

Posted 19 December 2011 - 12:41 PM

View PostJ Echo, on 19 December 2011 - 10:34 AM, said:

This is true for a plethora of reasons which are probably impossible to understand unless you've done both, but the biggest reason is complexity of physical interaction.


:) because you've totally both piloted a 'Mech and flown a fighter aircraft, and are qualified to tell us how it is. Your knowledge of flight mechanics is good enough that I'd almost believe you were a pilot, but I know you haven't driven a 'Mech.

You're going to have to provide sources if you're going to make bold statements like "it only takes a few weeks to train a mechwarrior". Otherwise you're just spouting opinion.

But by your own argument about physical interaction I'd have to say you're wrong. Outside of sensor and weapon controls, which are equally complex for fighter aircraft and battlemechs, the fighter pilot has fewer and simpler controls to deal with. Stick, rudder, and throttle, and you're taught to coordinate stick and rudder together to the point that it becomes second-nature. Your alpha limit never changes (well, unless you account for high-lift devices and very low speeds where the Reynolds numbers get wonky), so you always know where you stand.

With a 'Mech you have to deal with chassis direction, torso twist and elevation, two arms which can move independently (no BTU video game has gotten this right yet), possibly jump jets which have their own complex steering, and probably independent directional throttles, all of which you may have to operate in a very coordinated or uncoordinated manner in a matter of seconds. You have to keep this lumbering behemoth balanced at all times, despite changing terrain, weapon damage, and gyro lag, which can be significant for a gyro weighing four tons.
And unlike in an aircraft, you have no direct physical feedback of what the 'Mech is doing. You might get some sensation as feedback through the neurohelmet, but that's mainly a passive system and is no replacement for yoke counterpressure.

I don't think being a 'Mech pilot or a fighter pilot is more difficult. They're both really damn hard.

#24 Technocide Rex

    Member

  • PipPip
  • 29 posts
  • LocationWherever the battle is

Posted 19 December 2011 - 01:06 PM

And yet another potential convert to the world of BT/MW has been scared off by the hardcore combat of words between who knows more historical details, strategy, and lore than whom...

Edited by Technocide Rex, 19 December 2011 - 01:07 PM.


#25 Mason Grimm

    Com Guard / Technician

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Bad Company
  • Bad Company
  • 2,886 posts
  • Facebook: Link
  • LocationToronto, ON

Posted 19 December 2011 - 01:26 PM

Krisov and J. You two both need to go to your rooms and count to....like 6.5 billion.... one number at a time.

#26 CobraFive

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Elite Founder
  • Elite Founder
  • 1,174 posts
  • LocationAZ, USA

Posted 19 December 2011 - 01:26 PM

It is really sad that every thread has to turn into this :D

To the OP:

Battlemechs are like walking tanks you can customize. Unlike chromehounds you don't pick the body parts, you have a whole bunch of already assembled mechs to pick from (Literally hundreds, but how many are in each game differs). Each game has had a different customization system, but for the most part: You are limited by the weight of the unit, each mech having its own limit, between 20 and 100 tons. In some games, like MW4, each unit also had specific advantages. For example the Annhilator was 100 tons and could pack in tons of ballistic weapons, meaning it could have enough cannons to destroy mechs in only a few shots, but it had no slots for missiles or lasers at all.

That's for design. In piloting it the main concern is heat, for most designs. When the mech fires a weapon, it generates heat, which can disrupt the fusion generator. If you fire too many weapons too fast, you'll build up so much heat that your systems begin to fail (IE your radar becomes static). Keep going and the mech forces itself to shut down as a safety precaution. If for whatever reason the heat keeps going up (If you're daring you can override the safety shutdown for example), or the reactor's shielding itself takes damage, the reactor goes critical and the mech nukes off (And yes, all of that is in-game, not just the books). Different weapons have different properties. For example laser are very good all-round weapons, but they generate a lot of heat. Particle cannons ("PPC") are even better but generate even more heat. While regular bullet cannons generate less heat but weigh much more, meaning you can carry fewer weapons even if you have to worry about heat less.

Also whenever describing the mechwarrior games I like to link to the videos of previous games as an example :)


#27 Kristov Kerensky

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • FP Veteran - Beta 1
  • FP Veteran - Beta 1
  • 2,909 posts

Posted 19 December 2011 - 01:27 PM

I don't think he's scared off, he seems to be interested in actually learning the background and lore of the BTU, which this game is based on. I'm trying to give him information that's been combined from multiple different sources over better then 25 years of playing in that setting, both as a pen and paper war game, role playing game and all the iterations of the computer games. I also gave him a link to Sarna, so he can read the tech specs directly, and he was given a great link for the history/lore and even for the novels.

This is what happens when someone wants to know about BTU..it's a big complicated very well written about universe that some of us really do enjoy the hell out of..and we're not shy about sharing that :) He'll ever be drawn into as we were, or he won't, but either way, he asked and we answered :D

Mason, I'm not trying to argue with J Echo, believe me, I know that's a waste of time. I stuck on topic, BTU and how Mechs work in it, from the lore side and from a purely video game side. Aircraft ARE difficult to use in combat, I didn't deny that, but they are different from Mechs and I only discussed Mechs, that's what the OP wanted to know about.

Edited by Kristov Kerensky, 19 December 2011 - 01:34 PM.


#28 Xhaleon

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Money Maker
  • The Money Maker
  • 542 posts

Posted 19 December 2011 - 01:34 PM

View PostCaveMan, on 19 December 2011 - 12:41 PM, said:

snippy snippy

Most mechs keep the cockpit head at the very top of the body, so they'll be getting feedback on balance enough. Unless you meant feedback in where exactly the legs and arms are?

In which case, yeah, tough. Its why you won't see mechs in real life until we get feedback-enabled neural-interfaces.

I've got more than enough years left in me to see that . I've got enough years left... I've got enough...

Edited by Xhaleon, 19 December 2011 - 01:35 PM.


#29 Barantor

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Elite Founder
  • Elite Founder
  • 2,592 posts
  • LocationLexington, KY USA

Posted 19 December 2011 - 01:38 PM

View PostKristov Kerensky, on 19 December 2011 - 01:27 PM, said:

I don't think he's scared off, he seems to be interested in actually learning the background and lore of the BTU, which this game is based on. I'm trying to give him information that's been combined from multiple different sources over better then 25 years of playing in that setting, both as a pen and paper war game, role playing game and all the iterations of the computer games. I also gave him a link to Sarna, so he can read the tech specs directly, and he was given a great link for the history/lore and even for the novels.


AKA ... It is as or more complex than Star Wars and folks are even more focused on the minutiae. :)

Sarna wiki, mechwarrior wiki and the novels are a great start, you can't learn everything but you can get the jist of it fairly easy. No need to have an encyclopedic knowledge about it either, the community is great so long as you are willing to learn.

#30 Technocide Rex

    Member

  • PipPip
  • 29 posts
  • LocationWherever the battle is

Posted 19 December 2011 - 01:41 PM

Yeah, his first death will be from boredom...

I admire the lore and follow the history/rules moderately. However, it is my experience that the lion's share of gamers in any genre is comprised of those drawn to the excitement of unique combat in what could be one of many possible futures for mankind (provided that Iran and North Korea don't manage to instigate WWIII before then, but that's another story).

When getting someone interested in anything, one doesn't jam 25 years of details down their throat and hope they'll take to it, just so that 1 hardcore BT/MW devotee has been recuited while 99 others are diverted because they want a moderate level of involvement for entertainment's sake. That approach got me interested initially (MW2-MW4) and while I never wanted to play the tabletop game or read the novels (gasp!), I was certainly excited to hear that MWO is coming. Bring on the carnage.

Thanks to Hayden and cobrafive for being voices of reason.

My two cents.

Edited by Technocide Rex, 19 December 2011 - 01:43 PM.


#31 Kristov Kerensky

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • FP Veteran - Beta 1
  • FP Veteran - Beta 1
  • 2,909 posts

Posted 19 December 2011 - 01:54 PM

My first post was the Sarna link, with a warning about J Echo and his..stance on things, due to the rants he'd posted in the thread already, which have since been removed. I didn't go into any details until Johnep asked for details. I've never played Chrome Hounds so I can't give references from that, so I gave info based on what I know..BTech. Others know the CH game and related to that for him.

Sorry Technocide, but I won't stop trying to give people information they ask for because you find it annoying to read it. I was a Clan Loremaster for years in a RPing league, it's habit now to give out the information after someone requests it multiple times. First time, a link..after that, they'll either be interested in knowing more or they won't ask again.

#32 pcunite

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 274 posts
  • LocationUSA

Posted 19 December 2011 - 04:14 PM

View Postcobrafive, on 19 December 2011 - 01:26 PM, said:




That is just so cool ... scary too!

#33 pied

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 324 posts
  • LocationBehind you

Posted 19 December 2011 - 09:27 PM

Tried to think about what it was that got me so interested in MechWarrior when I had first seen it. Big robots shooting missiles and lasers at each other seemed pretty cool. After I started playing I found out the game was pretty much a simulator for piloting a mech of my own, not some arcade game. The game has depth. You looking to blow up other mechs? You can do that. You wanting to customize your ride with different weapons to fit a situation that calls for long or short range? That's in there. You into team tactics and strategy to win at all costs? Then strap in!

MechWarrior is about competition. With you friends, with your enemies, and with yourself. Fight your best. Rely on luck. Take no prisoners!

Oh yeah, it's fun too...

#34 Mechteric

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Overlord
  • Overlord
  • 7,308 posts
  • LocationRTP, NC

Posted 20 December 2011 - 07:15 PM

Here's one good example of Mechwarrior fun :)

http://youtu.be/g-W_GGK30Fs

#35 metro

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,491 posts
  • Facebook: Link
  • LocationSians Celestial City- http://capellanconfederation.com/

Posted 21 December 2011 - 03:06 AM

Welcome to MWO John(OP)





1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users